Differentiation: The ORIGINAL OT Levels Available Only In Independent Scientology

Anonycat

Crusader
I have both the original and the new OT levels. I'm pretty sure anyone who wants a copy can get one.

Also:

wholetrackcassettes.jpg
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
Perhaps it would be better for Independent Scientology to give six-monthly sec checks to ensure there are no hidden crimes so that the E/P of the OT levels can be achieved.

OT VII's probably a moot point. They'll all die mid-OT VI, waiting for their post cards.
 

Veda

Sponsor
They deliver this?

file.php

Old OT VIII never existed, although Hubbard, for years, told Scientologists it did. Then Hubbard announced that, "There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in un-issued note form, pending more people's full attainment of OT VI and VII."

That was several years before the appearance of NOTs.

The non-existent old OT VIII was still part of the Grade Chart then, even after the announcement of "15 levels above [old] OT VII." It wasn't until late 1979/early 1980 that I received a phone call from AOLA informing me that (old) OT VIII (and the entire upper Grade Chart) were no more, and that I should use that money - on account - to buy books and tapes.

I took that in stride since, a year or so earlier, I'd witnessed Hubbard's butchering of the middle Grade Chart, and the Dianetic Clear frenzy, so why not? After all, these were advances and improvements, right?

So Hubbard lied about the OT levels.

But I'm sure that can be glossed over too, as Scientologists happily march onward!

WomenNorthKoreaMarching.jpg
 
Last edited:

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
So Hubbard lied about the OT levels.
Possible. He kept making changes to the tech all the time. Hard to tell which.

Perhaps it would be better for Independent Scientology to give six-monthly sec checks to ensure there are no hidden crimes so that the E/P of the OT levels can be achieved.
More like a preventative flossing. Better than 90% of it serves organizational security issues which you have the pleasure to pay for, so upper level goodies never end up in my hands ... lol

They failed, and it all happened because you somehow did not take responsibility for that, so you need to be sec checked again ... lol

These Sec Checks should never have come into existence on any scheduled basis, only by C/S call, and only if VII has bogged, and only if that action is required to get the show back on the road again.

But the long and short of it is, its a great FLAG cash cow the membership accepts like a peasant flogging.
 
Last edited:

Veda

Sponsor
Possible. He kept making changes to the tech all the time. Hard to tell which.

It not only possible. It definite. It happened.

It's not hard to tell at all.

Hubbard lied to Scientologists about the OT levels.

And Hubbard lied when he told Scientologists that, "There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in un-issued note form, pending more people's full attainment of OT VI and VII."

It's kind of funny that the CofS says Hubbard didn't lie about the OT levels, and Marty says that Hubbard didn't lie about the OT levels, and you say that "it's hard to tell," etc.

Where do you think those 15 levels are?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
"Free and Able" at http://www.freeandable.com/ and "The Association of Professional Independent Scientologists" at http://internationalfreezone.net/ have lists of dependable independent auditors.

Marty's just made IFAP [er, Independent Freezone Association of Professionals] "legitimate." They're probably celebrating madly right now.

But how does he know all the auditors listed at those two venues are "dependable"? And is that a power play going on? I guess Mr. IFAP wanted to suck the indies under *his* umbrella, but is Marty (by describing the ifappies as "independent") doing the reverse?

Paul
 
Last edited:

Terril park

Sponsor
I suspect the answer is implied in the following quotation:My guess is that the answer is, or will be, that Audited NOTS (New OT V) and Solo NOTs (New OT VII) were designed by LRH to serve as an undercut. That Ron discovered that the Original OT Levels simply presented too steep of gradient for most people, and thus he introduced Audited NOTS (New OT V) and Solo NOTs (New OT VII) as an undercut.

DM of course, in his efforts to squirrel Scientology and deprive people of the benefits of Scientology
, CANCELLED the Original OT Levels
when that was NEVER Ron's intention, thereby depriving people of the Power of Full OT!

No wonder corporate Church of Scientology OTs have been floundering, forced to re-do their levels, declared not-Clear, and even forced to re-do their Objectives. They were processed according to, for most of them, an incomplete, out-gradient Grade Chart with missing steps!

I've know old-timers who insisted that the New OT Levels were squirrel, not intended by Ron, etc., and the only "real" OT Levels are the Original OT Levels.

I've also previously heard before that the New, NOTs, OT Levels were designed as an undercut for the Original OT Levels, and one should both, if advisable. Notice that the post on Marty's blog states one can, apparently depending on one's case and needs, do either: (1) just the Original OT Levels; or (2) the New, NOTs, OT Levels followed by the Original OT Levels.

I find it very interesting that Marty
would allow a post on his blog endorsing the later viewpoint and the Original OT Levels. I'll also be very interested to see whether and how the Independent technical terminals
(e.g., Auditors, CSes) on his blog react to this.


Note that the 1982 bridge chart, possibly by Mayo, had original OT levels, and NOTs
was a booster rundown to help if any difficulties on original OT levels.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I suspect THAT one might have been cancelled by LRH. :coolwink:

I'll also note that so far the post on Marty's blog has not drawn comment from the known Auditors and CSes, and especially not on the Original OT Levels point. I'm curious if this going to go anywhere.

It may have been a trial balloon. Or could it have been a case where Marty just wanted to make a "we are flourishing and prospering" post, and didn't understand the significance and implications of the contents? Is that really possible?

Original OT levels have been available since before Marty was around.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Note that the 1982 bridge chart, possibly by Mayo, had original OT levels, and NOTs
was a booster rundown to help if any difficulties on original OT levels.

Nope.

I have a copy of the 1982 Grade Chart and the old OT levels (4,5,6,7) have been replaced by NOTs levels.

Another question you might ask yourself is, why did your guru Hubbard write pulp fiction novels instead of completing the OT levels?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
They deliver this?

file.php

Obviously, a Scientologist who could be at THAT state wouldn't need PR, OSA, handlings or anything else, because he or she could simply INTEND any situation to be just as he or she desires. Obviously, none of them have EVER attained such a state.

This level at very best, was an idealized description of what Hubbard imagined should be possibly if all of his theories and ideas were valid. Except they weren't.

As Veda said, NOBODY has ever received THAT OT level. Because, it didn't exist. And, if it did exist, NOBODY ever got anywhere near the gains. But, it was simply BAIT. It fit in nicely with the rest of the fictional Grade Chart.

This is the same old shit that started right from the beginning. Early on Hubbard said that the way to rehabilitate a thetan was to tell it, "Be three feet in back of your head", and then run it on COHA Route 1. Drill the thetan while exterior on a great many skills. Except again, nobody is actually fully stably exterior from ANY Scientology processes, and thus NOT able to drill anything. It is a nice/cute idea, but doesn't quite work out it reality.

See, one can drill OT IV-VI in the imagination. THAT is what a few friends told me they did back in the 1970s when they did these old OT levels. They were grossly disappointed. Doing something in the imagination (while helpful and useful in some regards) is NOT AT ALL THE SAME as doing the actual thing.

But then so MANY ideas of Scientology involve the imagination, unbeknownst to the followers. Scientology is NOT "saving the planet", and has no capability to do such a thing, BUT many followers IMAGINE that they are doing so. A full understanding of what Scientology actually is and does requires one to notice and grasp just how Hubbard appeals to and gets any follower actively using his or her IMAGINATION (but quite unbeknownst to the follower).

In some occult studies the imagination is dealt with, but it is brought under the conscious control of the student by LONG practice. In Scientology one is NEVER told such things in such terms, and Hubbard manipulates his followers to involve and use their imaginations without their conscious knowledge. THAT is a key part of his deceit and oppressive manipulation.

Fir example, I was skimming through on book on astral travel a few days ago. Most techniques begin with imagining various scenarios, as a way to finally "get out". But the author made it very clear that one will immediately KNOW when one is "really doing it" as opposed to imaginaing doing it. And the results of what is seen or heard can be verified with others. The experience exists in the "real world" and NOT solely in the imagination (so the author claims). Much of Scientology processing and gains occurs SOLELY in the imagination.

Ever since the very beginning of Scientolgy nobody could do what Hubbard said they should be able to do, be three feet back and do the drills, Hubbard created every other step of Scientology as an UNDERCUT to WHY the poor degraded thetan couldn't just follow the instructions of the early auditing commands in Route 1. And, of course, they STILL can't do what Hubbard said they should and could be able to do. :duh: :omg:

OT IV-VI contains the drills from the Creation of Human Ability.

Other occult schools and disciplines involve many hours and years of practice gaining the ability to control ones INNER SPACES at will. This involves the conscious control of subtle factors of mind, intention, concentration, focus and the imagination. The Scientology game is a trick designed to attract people who are fundamentally LAZY, who do not and will not EVER go through that sort of dedicated "inner work", and who want a "short cut" to these sort of amazing abilities - buy BUYING their "freedom". Except it doesn't and can't work that way. :no:

Marty and related dolts will probably never realize that - at least not in any lifetime soon.

Scientology basically attracts people who want to CHEAT the natural path of human spiritual evolution. And THAT is known as the "left-hand path" of magick or spirituality. THAT is Scientology.
 
Last edited:

Gadfly

Crusader
Nope.

I have a copy of the 1982 Grade Chart and the old OT levels (4,5,6,7) have been replaced by NOTs levels.

Veda is right. OT 4, 5 and 6 were suddenly GONE. When NOTs first came out there was no SOLO NOTs. NOTs and Solo NOTs were reframed into the Bridge somewhere between 1981-83. Solo NOTs was invented because it was too expensive to audit any person on hundreds or thousands of hours of NOTs.

There was never a PEEP about the old OT levels or when they might be "re-released" - if ever. THey were suddenly just GONE - like declared SPs. The old OT Levels were a big problem for Hubbard and Scientology, because they did not "work", and people were UPSET about it. And as usual, Hubbard just GOT RID of whatever caused him problems - Hubbard is a TRUE Grade Zero Release - he knows how to spot the source of problems and make them disappear (just ask Paulette Cooper . . ). :duh:

Obviously, to me, the original upper OT Levels 4-6 were the WHOLE POINT of Scientology. They were the ONLY reason I got involved, right in the very beginning. I wanted THAT.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Interestingly, the "original OT levels" IV-VI didn't work back in the 1970s. Why would they "work" now? :duh:

Read the claimed abilities and what you do on these amazing levels.

Here we go again . . . . more promises and claims that fail to materialize.

As I recall, old OT VII is now OT III Expanded (about improving intention). Generally one "finishes OT III", then does OT III EXP, and then with "improved laser intention", does MORE OT III . . . . . :confused2:

Them BTs just never seem to fully go away! :duh: :ohmy: :omg: :unsure: :lol:
Just as a point of order and FYI, Gadfly; The Original OT VII is not OT3 Expanded. The sequence is that the guy does OT3 then does "Old/Original" OT7 (to enhance the Intention of the Solo Auditor, as you correctly described) and then back on OT3 where the second run on OT3 is what is called OT3 Expanded. :)

And... just btw, the Original OT Levels worked a helluvalot better than the "New" ones, IMO. They didn't always do what was promised in the hyperbolic PR but they apparently did something interesting occasionally.
 
Last edited:

Gadfly

Crusader
Just as a point of order and FYI, Gadlfly; The Original OT VII is not OT3 Expanded. The sequence is that the guy does OT3 then does "Old/Original" OT7 (to enhance the Intention of the Solo Auditor, as you correctly described) and then back on OT3 where the second run on OT3 is what is called OT3 Expanded. :)

And... just btw, the Original OT Levels worked a helluvalot better than the "New" ones, IMO. They didn't always do what was promised in the hyperbolic PR but they apparently did something interesting occasionally.

Thanks, yep, I realized that after I posted (first parapgraph). :thankyou:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Nope.

I have a copy of the 1982 Grade Chart and the old OT levels (4,5,6,7) have been replaced by NOTs levels.

Another question you might ask yourself is, why did your guru Hubbard write pulp fiction novels instead of completing the OT levels?


Looks like I was referring to the 1980 bridge which I've seen.

"©1970, 1974, 1980 [Dec]
Produced by the Flag Marketing Bureau Solo NOT's listed on chart following Audited NOT's.
Audited NOT's & Solo NOT's listed together with the original OT Levels V, VI & VII.
First notice of Alternate Route to Clear on chart, although Grades V, VA & VI are still being listed.
It deleted the Class V Auditor"

http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_story_of_mayo3_grade_chart.html#listcharts
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
They deliver this?

file.php

I once asked an OT VIII friend why he spent so much money on the OT VIII bracelet when he could have just postulated its existence on his wrist and had it for free. He was way out by then, so we both had a good laugh over that.

:lol:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Looks like I was referring to the 1980 bridge which I've seen.

"©1970, 1974, 1980 [Dec]
Produced by the Flag Marketing Bureau Solo NOT's listed on chart following Audited NOT's.
Audited NOT's & Solo NOT's listed together with the original OT Levels V, VI & VII.
First notice of Alternate Route to Clear on chart, although Grades V, VA & VI are still being listed.
It deleted the Class V Auditor"

http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_story_of_mayo3_grade_chart.html#listcharts

Re. your link: "Wise old goat" posted on ESMB for a time, until banned, and is also known as Roadrunner. His web site consists of lots and lots of information mixed with disinformation.

This is one of his old posts on ESMB:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=13061&postcount=42

It's really a shame that Hubbard changed the Grade Chart the way he did, messing with both the middle and upper "Bridge." By the mid 1970s, Scientology was a functioning front group&mental healing-coated psychological-political operation&Hubbard fan club-cult. Scientologists were so nicely entranced. It was almost beautiful in a horribly perverted, evil, kind of way. Then, around 1976, Hubbard started becoming even crazier, and the thing started to unwind.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Actually, I do vaguely recall that for a very short period of time the OLD OT Levels were on the Grade Chart with NOTs (at the same time). But that did not last long.

I remember talking about this with other Scientologists, because OLD OT 4-6 were what it was all about . . . . . :lol:

The Grade Chart was constantly changing, just as was everything else in Scientology due to Hubbard's propensity for fictional spewing. What is so amazingly funny about that is that Hubard always made the statement and claim that the BRIDGE WAS WORKABLE AND COMPLETE, and he made this statement at EVERY point along the history of Scientology - yet, it was ALWAYS changing into something else.

The only thing that truly stayed the same was the aim to gain control and make money! :yes:
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Another question you might ask yourself is, why did your guru Hubbard write pulp fiction novels instead of completing the OT levels?

Post du jour, Veda.

Okay, how many of us read between the lines of Mission Earth for the real poop?
 
Top