Differentiation: The ORIGINAL OT Levels Available Only In Independent Scientology

Gadfly

Crusader
Dan Koon was apparently on a knowledgeable post during the relevant time period, and discussed the issue on this video, from about 3:45:

[video=youtube;F3HRf40gobE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F3HRf40gobE#![/video]

Geez, this guy is really NUTS!

He believes that Hubbared actually did "research". :hysterical:

He also said that the MOST important thing in life for any person is to have a comm line with LRH! :duh:
 
The question about research - have you considered all of the stuff they were doing with goals listing at SH? I haven't read an analysis of what was done in those days, and my general knowledge, the search for the pc's own GPMs suddenly ended when Hubbard found the R-6 bank, the CC and OT 2 implants.

Perhaps someone reading this can correct me if I am off the beam, but first he's hot and heavy with the listing research, then, he's suddenly off to Rhodesia, and returns with the CC movies, and OT2. All of the 3m stuff etc. is shelved.

What happened? Why was it canned? I heard some people (one of the Greenbergs?) in the late 70's - early 80's were still running that stuff in squirrel land because they felt Ron had made a left turn with the OT bridge.

Mimsey
 
Geez, this guy is really NUTS!

He believes that Hubbared actually did "research". :hysterical:

He also said that the MOST important thing in life for any person is to have a comm line with LRH! :duh:

But he committed an overt and needs to be declared by another Hubbard cultist.
When he referred to LRH intentionally dropping his body, he said "passed away" :omg:

'Passing away' is what meat-body-in-the-mud-wogs do. Scientologists 'Drop Their Body'
and let's be completely [STRIKE]precise[/STRIKE] standard about it shall we?
It's not Drop my/her/his Body. Its Drop THE body.

It's so Gay. :)
 

Gib

Crusader
Go ahead and speculate. :)


HCOB 30 July 1973

Current State of Subject and Materials


There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in un-issued note form, pending more people's full attainment of OT VI and VII.


____________________________


HCOB 24 January 1977

Tech Correction Round Up
24 January 1977


X: Advanced Grades

For a number of years people have asked when will OT VIII will be released.

Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence
.

What I have been waiting for is 2 or 3 months of free time to go over these materials and write them up and make them available through Advanced Organizations.

Now I will make a bargain with you. If you get all the tech straightened out and the orgs and flaps and emergencies off my lines and get your training in and your Word Clearing in and everything flying and this civilization even more pointed in a civilized direction, you will buy me those 3 months' worth of time so I will be able to afford the time to write up all these Advanced Levels I have researched. Do your job well and buy me these three months.

Is it a bargain?

L. Ron Hubbard

Founder


Then Hubbard had time to write these:

profile_chronology_92_mission-earth-01.png

I hear yah. It doesn't quite jive. Especially if the church is intent on clearing the planet.

Same line of thinking I have with Super Power.

But LRH states above do your job, get in tech and word clearing and buy me time. Or in other words, get yourself up the bridge paying money.

That's how I see it if one puts on his critical thinking hat, or questioning hat.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Geez, this guy is really NUTS!

He believes that Hubbared actually did "research". :hysterical:

He also said that the MOST important thing in life for any person is to have a comm line with LRH! :duh:

No, wait! I just heard a 1950 lecture 50009C23A, and Ron said that Dianetics was a philosophy he had been researching for 15 years! Since 1935! He wasn't done, but he was so interested in "life energy". "What is it?" - but, he did say his Dianetics had a word to hang its hat on, and that is "survival". AWESOME.

So, yes, Ron claims to have spent 15 years researching ... things. Oh, in that same lecture, he tries to sound like a world-famous scientist and drops one name, citing that his work was used in part to make Dianetics. Nice to give a tip of the hat like that. The name was "Count Korzybski". Yes, he mispronounced it, and no he isn't a Count, but --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Korzybski

His first book, Manhood of Humanity, was published in 1921.

Well, good for him. That almost sounds like a Hubbard title.

Korzybzki was well received in numerous disciplinary realms, as evidenced by the positive reactions from leading persons in the sciences and humanities in the 1940s and 1950s.

Some of the persons listed are, like Korzybski, polymaths and several categories apply to them. For example, Heinlein was the "dean of science fiction writers" because he was "the scientist" of science fiction.

That's pretty cool - it sounds like the kind of thing that would make Ron jealous.

As reported in the Third Edition of Science and Sanity, The U.S. Army in World War II used Korzybski's system to treat battle fatigue in Europe with the supervision of Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, who went on to become the psychiatrist in charge of the Nazi prisoners at Nuremberg.

:omg:
 
Yes, he mispronounced it, and no he isn't a Count, but --
No, no, no Ron mispronouncing words? Jeeze buddy. I mean, well, um, now that I think of it, maybe you are right - he pronounces dinosaurs: din a sores and robots: rah bots

And while we are on the subject - how bout the first LSD HCOB where he tells us how LSD is soaked in sugar cubes? Some one told him he was full of shit, and the next HCOB was not so goofy.

Mimsey
 

phenomanon

Canyon
The question about research - have you considered all of the stuff they were doing with goals listing at SH? I haven't read an analysis of what was done in those days, and my general knowledge, the search for the pc's own GPMs suddenly ended when Hubbard found the R-6 bank, the CC and OT 2 implants.

Perhaps someone reading this can correct me if I am off the beam, but first he's hot and heavy with the listing research, then, he's suddenly off to Rhodesia, and returns with the CC movies, and OT2. All of the 3m stuff etc. is shelved.

What happened? Why was it canned? I heard some people (one of the Greenbergs?) in the late 70's - early 80's were still running that stuff in squirrel land because they felt Ron had made a left turn with the OT bridge.

Mimsey

FYI, Mimsey, that wasn't squirrell land". That was a part of the Independent Field at the time.
Thea and Lloyd Greenberg ran a their own practice thru the 80s. They did some very interesting work on GPMs.
I still have some of Lloyd's tapes on GPMs.
Whem Lloyd died, Thea got into the Channelling scene. It was kinda sad.

phenomanon
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
He also said that the MOST important thing in life for any person is to have a comm line with LRH! :duh:

He talked about that at the beginning of the video too. Now, Scios sometimes say things like, "What's the LRH on that?" The term "LRH" can mean the person, or it can mean his published works. When Koon is talking about people having a comm line to LRH, I think he is talking more about people studying and having an understanding of his works, not so much directly communing with Mr. Warts'n'all himself.

Paul
 

Veda

Sponsor
He talked about that at the beginning of the video too. Now, Scios sometimes say things like, "What's the LRH on that?" The term "LRH" can mean the person, or it can mean his published works. When Koon is talking about people having a comm line to LRH, I think he is talking more about people studying and having an understanding of his works, not so much directly communing with Mr. Warts'n'all himself.

Paul

Then the question is, why wouldn't one OT (OT 8?) have a comm line with another (uber) OT, that (uber) OT being LRH ?

Wouldn't that be natural?

Ron's Orgs (largest FZ group) believe that they'll be meeting RON on the other side of the Bridge, and having one's "ruds in" with RON is an absolute requirement, if one is to "make it," become a "full OT," and be allowed into the promised land - where RON dwells.

No doubt, to lower level, less aware, beings, "having a comm line to LRH" is presented as "studying and having an understanding of his works," etc., but to an OT?

It's nothing new. In Scientology, "being connected to Source," was always a big deal. To those "lower on the scale," it was presented as having "Source's" books, etc., but to those "higher on the scale," well...

:yes:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Then the question is, why wouldn't one OT (OT 8?) have a comm line with another (uber) OT, that (uber) OT being LRH ?

Sure. :). I'm not saying that idea is untenable. I'm sure many Scios fondly believe they are talking directly to the being on Target 2 or in the mothership or wherever, or even having a personal session with him. But I think Koon could do the math(s) and would realize that 500 or 500,000 people can't all be chatting away with one being at the same time.

And how could 500,000 people all be getting a live individualized session from one source at the same time? :biggrin:

Paul
 

Veda

Sponsor
Sure. :). I'm not saying that idea is untenable. I'm sure many Scios fondly believe they are talking directly to the being on Target 2 or in the mothership or wherever, or even having a personal session with him. But I think even Koon could do the math(s) and realize that 500 or 500,000 people can't all be chatting away with one being at the same time.

And how could 500,000 people all be getting a live individualized session from one source at the same time? :biggrin:

Paul

Sounds as though you're underestimating the Power of Source.

Here's an actual scene from the other side of the Bridge.
nightmare-lrh-way.jpg
You'd better get your rudes in with LRH if you expect to make it there.​
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Well, either way that you look at it, anyway that you cut the cake, having it as the MOST IMORTANT thing in life, to have a comm line with LRH, is NUTS!

Both of these views are nuts:

1. It is the most important thing in a life for any person to stay connected to Ron's source data through books, tapes and policies.

2. It is the most important thing in a life for any person to stay connected to LRH via a thetan connection in the theta universe.
 
FYI, Mimsey, that wasn't squirrel land". That was a part of the Independent Field at the time.
Thea and Lloyd Greenberg ran a their own practice thru the 80s. They did some very interesting work on GPMs.
I still have some of Lloyd's tapes on GPMs.
When Lloyd died, Thea got into the Channelling scene. It was kinda sad.

phenomenon

Well, perhaps it was allowed - I remember someone saying they were doing the old goals listing stuff, and I thought it was a bit odd, and I assumed they were squirreling. But, I never saw any goldenrod. Maybe it was overlooked at the time. There are HCOBs that state it all works.

Whatever came from his auditing on that stuff anyway? Was he making good gains? It seemed odd that Hubbard dropped the goals listing and the PC's own GPM's entirely. I recall him saying that the implant GPM's were just an RI on the pc's own GPMs. Perhaps the implant GPMs were a restimulator for them. Get rid of the restimulator and charge goes back on the track. I seem to recall Ken Ogger messing around with GPMs a bunch, but he came to such a weird end, I wonder what, if any value that auditing had.

Mimsey
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well, perhaps it was allowed - I remember someone saying they were doing the old goals listing stuff, and I thought it was a bit odd, and I assumed they were squirreling. But, I never saw any goldenrod. Maybe it was overlooked at the time. There are HCOBs that state it all works.

Whatever came from his auditing on that stuff anyway? Was he making good gains? It seemed odd that Hubbard dropped the goals listing and the PC's own GPM's entirely. I recall him saying that the implant GPM's were just an RI on the pc's own GPMs. Perhaps the implant GPMs were a restimulator for them. Get rid of the restimulator and charge goes back on the track. I seem to recall Ken Ogger messing around with GPMs a bunch, but he came to such a weird end, I wonder what, if any value that auditing had.

Mimsey

I knew someone who was a pc of Lloyd Greeberg around 1983. He was being audited on "Actual GPMs." Lloyd was a genuinely good and honest person, and he tried, but my impression of this actual GPM tech is that it never failed to disappoint, in spite of momentary surges or "wins."

No OTs were ever produced that was for sure.

In the early 1960s, Hubbard spent a few years collecting information on cases during his AGPM research, and seemed to take it seriously for a while, yet transitioned into implant GPMs, where he would TELL the person, rather than ASK the person.

The era of Ron the Implanter had formally begun - that was around 1963, although his "implanting" of Scientologists actually started many year earlier.

Every now and then, some outside the CofS Scientologist does AGPM processing, and the results are, at best, inconclusive and, again, no OTs are forthcoming.
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
The name was "Count Korzybski". Yes, he mispronounced it, and no he isn't a Count, but...

Actually, he was a Count, but only because that sort of thing got way out of hand in central and eastern Europe; instead of the oldest son inheriting the title, all children would inherit the title. That diluted titles of aristocracy to the point of meaninglessness. He gave up the title when he became a US citizen, prior to Hubbard's talk.

More interestingly, he could also be called the father of TR-0, a form of which he pushed as a powerful therapeutic tool, "silence on the objective level." The purpose of this was to cut language out as a mental filter for experience.

See, Korzybski thought that what limited humanity was a combination of biology and language. Our biology makes us see certain wavelengths as red, even though redness doesn't have any empirical existence. Our language colors and filters our perception, particularly language dealing with things which can't empirically be shown to exist. General Semantics was his attempt at undoing the propaganda effects of language.

So if Hubbard could be called a student of Korzybski, he'd be a very prominent practitioner of Black Semantics. Has anyone ever created more terminology for things which couldn't objectively be shown to exist?
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Actually, he was a Count, but only because that sort of thing got way out of hand in central and eastern Europe; instead of the oldest son inheriting the title, all children would inherit the title. That diluted titles of aristocracy to the point of meaninglessness. He gave up the title when he became a US citizen, prior to Hubbard's talk.

More interestingly, he could also be called the father of TR-0, a form of which he pushed as a powerful therapeutic tool, "silence on the objective level." The purpose of this was to cut language out as a mental filter for experience.

See, Korzybski thought that what limited humanity was a combination of biology and language. Our biology makes us see certain wavelengths as red, even though redness doesn't have any empirical existence. Our language colors and filters our perception, particularly language dealing with things which can't empirically be shown to exist. General Semantics was his attempt at undoing the propaganda effects of language.

So if Hubbard could be called a student of Korzybski, he'd be a very prominent practitioner of Black Semantics. Has anyone ever created more terminology for things which couldn't objectively be shown to exist?

He did have an interesting take on semantics, symbols, language. The part I made bold, is almost the exact review of Dianetics from Scientific American:

Reviewing the book for Scientific American in 1951, physicist Isidor Isaac Rabi criticised the lack of either evidence or qualification, saying it "probably contains more promises and less evidence per page than has any publication since the invention of printing."

and ...

An early review in The New Republic summed up the book as "a bold and immodest mixture of complete nonsense and perfectly reasonable common sense, taken from long-acknowledged findings and disguised and distorted by a crazy, newly invented terminology" and warned of medical risks: "it may prove fatal to have put too much trust in the promises of this dangerous book."

and ...

An editorial in Clinical Medicine summarised the book as "a rumination of old psychological concepts, (...) misunderstood and misinterpreted and at the same time adorned with the halo of the philosopher's stone and of an universal remedy," which had initiated "a new system of quackery of apparently considerable dimensions."

Both Consumer Reports and Clinical Medicine also warned of the danger that the book would inspire unqualified people to harmfully intervene in others' mental problems.
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
In the early 1960s, Hubbard spent a few years collecting information on cases during his AGPM research, and seemed to take it seriously for a while, yet transitioned into implant GPMs, where he would TELL the person, rather than ASK the person.

"The actual goals and items of the preclear are several thousand times more aberrative than implant GPMs." HCOB 8 May '63

From the Tech Degrades perspective, where all Hubbard is true and valid, this is one of those paradoxes.
 
"The actual goals and items of the preclear are several thousand times more arbitrative than implant GPMs." HCOB 8 May '63

From the Tech Degrades perspective, where all Hubbard is true and valid, this is one of those paradoxes.
Well when I did the CL 6 tapes - and boy were there a lot of them - and, honestly my recall of them is spotty at best, I did recall him saying the Actual GPMs were the big bad boys. The whole thing with Grd IV was to stop the creation of the PT GPM, because the make wrong Ser Fac created the person's own GPM's And nothing after Grd IV dealt with them. My twin at the time was thunderstruck - he studied and duplicated the materials good enough to deliver goals listing and WTF? Ron did a 180 - he was most confounded.

Mimsey
 
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