ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Difficult to market Scientology

Discussion in 'Other Locations' started by jennifer, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. jennifer

    jennifer Patron

    In the early days it was relatively easy to market & sell the products & services of Scientology doing hats according to the posts of the Org board was more clear sailing than I believe it is today. A new star rises easier than how it continues to repeat itself always destined toward its capacity & potential for its peak of development before its eventual gradual decline as a falling star. How long it can mantain its peak of development depends on who steers its course. I know nothing of the current leadership of Scientology or how it manages the testament of the will of LRH. I can imagine though that they are in a chronic emergency condition requiring always to escape the dangers of how the Internet continues exposing the actual history of LRH & Scientology. This will continue requiring turnover of new people through Div 6 divisions & trying to keep old customers on board via Div 2 getting them urgently to buy new services. It can be chronically requiring delivering services via Div 4 functions that give good results so that satisfied customers will not be ill affected by adverse publicity. It can be a difficult job steering Scientology at these times. In any business however satisfied customers will continue staying a loyal consumer in the market place of the business. To the extent Scientology can continue to satisfy its customers will it continue remaining viable. This is a fact of the market place.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2007
  2. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    The marketing of Scientology is done mostly centrally and unsuccessfully.

    While the individual on the ground that contacts people is the one that most likely gets them in, this is far from the viewpoint and approach that is taken at the top.

    There used to be such things as localized marketing for areas that were under the org responsibility. This was changed by DM (and later denied that it was his idea) to a completely centralized marketing in CMU (Central Marketing Unit).

    What happens in real life is that quite a lot of promo (written for no one in particular and targeted to no one in particular) goes out to a generic list of Trained and Processed. Apart from other problems (such as losing the names on the list as people move, with CoS having no methods of keeping the addres changes up to date) this results in one person getting promo for just about every service, whenever there is some campaign that calls for it.

    Campaigns usually get launched in events, so most of the promo is for new releases. Anyways, this badly planned promo arrives to you whether you have done the service or bought the product or not, whether it has anything to do with your next service on the Bridge or not. So it goes to the garbage can.

    That's the promo that goes out centrally.

    The most effective marketing (apart from personal contact) is really the events. The events reach maybe 10,000 Scientologists (The official figure is over 20,000, but about 50% of the attendance is staff), with some of most dedicated ones attending the live event in the front seats.

    The events make money. I estimate that something like a third of the Scientology income comes from events. That's why DM has a great interest in them.

    The main problem with events, despite their monetary success, is that they get next to no new public in, so they are not effective in that way.

    Some rather random efforts are made to promote Scientology or related matters (PR things, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or Narconon). Random, because the reasons for these campaigns is not particularly thought out; frequently they come up as some sort of a stopgap handling, either because there was a flap in that particular area or because there has to be something to talk about at an event, especially at IAS, the biggest money-making event of the year with the "big campaigns" -- which mostly only exist in event visuals and die out rapidly until a few weeks before the next event when it is a flap that nothing has happened on that campaign to give an update.

    That's a fairly sloppy but nevertheless factual description of the PR and marketing activities of the Church.

    Bottom line: Most of the wealth and continued success of Scientology comes from milking the existing public for all they got. That is not very likely to last much longer.

    Considering all of the strategic direction is done by one man based on his concept of what people think and LRH's ideas of how finances work, the end will be inevitable.

    The only question is how much longer will it take.


    PS. I read through this again. It is really pretty sloppy. Don't mind me -- it's got some information value as well.
  3. jennifer

    jennifer Patron

    People don't look

    LRH continuously preached that people should LOOK.
    The market place consists of what can assist or betray people depending on how a person invests self or income.
    I know of many old age people in South Africa who had been taken for a ride by how they invested their money unwisely having not LOOKED before having leapt into bed with what betrayed them.
    The choice is with the person how the person invests self & their money as we can all suffer the consequences for having invested unwisely.
    I found with Scientology that it warns against what it does & so the moral in the story is LOOK first for to become bitter & twisted for having been caught won't save the person.
  4. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat


    I agree with your post except for this issue.

    1) There really is no verifiable stats that prove that events make money. This may shock you, considering that you were in an org that lived and breathed these things. But, from "the ground", at least in the SO service orgs, events didn't make money. There might be a spike in the GBS after a release, but there were no income affluences that occurred from an event. None.

    A good example. The KTL event release in 1990. Everyone was told they had to route right onto KTL. KTL sales soared, but Solo and OT Levels sales crashed. At the end of it no more money was made. (Not to mention the whole clusterfuck that was KTL....but that's another subject.)

    What makes money? Packages, especially deeply discounted ones. OT Packages, Preps packages, NOTs packages. Not so much having a package, but having a package end. That "buy now" period. That's where all the income spikes came from in the SO sector. Always. Always.

    The orgs, in actual fact, do best when the staff are left the fuck alone to do their jobs. Being pulled apart month after month for these events has been factually destructive to the stats (including GI) of every org I have come in contact with.

    2) In reality, I don't know that DM's interest in events has to do with making money. He may have convinced himself that events make money because he wants to have events. I believe DM's interest in events is the whole Hollywood being on stage and being the center of attention thing.

    This is how he wants dissemination to be done. It doesn't really have anything to do with what works.
  5. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    You gotta be kidding!

    When I came to the US on November 10th, 1964 - I visited all the Orgs in the US over a period of 6 weeks.

    They were practically empty.

    The biggest most prosperous was NY had 2 day time students....about 8 nights students.......a full time staff of 5.....part time around 12. Average GI for the Org around $800 per week.

    Washington., DC had many more day staff about 10.....part time about had no day time students......and 12 night time students. Average GI around $850 per week.

    Miami Org almost did not was just an adddress with an occasional ED. No students. No GI.

    Detroit was the same as Miami. No GI.

    LA Org had four students day time - almost no students at night. Staff of 6 including the Continental Director and husband Julia and Ken Salmen. Average GI around $600 per week.

    The top Franchise Holder in the world was John Galusha - his income was $300 a week on a good week.

    I estimate there were less that 500 active Scios in the whole US.

    There was an incredibly ARC broken field from the earlier Dianetic disasters and failed Orgs.

    LRH had left a very pissed off field.

    I came in and took over the Dallas Franchise - its previous years income was $3,200 for the year - or $65 a week.

    It had 8 students part time......of which the 1st night I threw out 6 of them. Told them to get a job. (The 2 I kept were Edith and Nick Nichols both became Class VIIIs and went on to build San Fransisco Org into a powerhouse o few years later.)

    My first lecture I had 32 people show up......apparently my kicking out the 6 people put peoples indicators in. :)

    My first weeks income was $5,800 (The cost of 2 Cadilacs.) I sent my first 10% check to England for $580 - I had an urgent phone call from the then Franchise Officer saying I did not have to send all my GI. - I reiterated it was 10% - I was then accusatively asked "what are you up to?"

    As for it was easier to market and sell Scio - it was not - the US was a very uptight market.......anything different was heavily attacked - remember the outrage at the long haired Beattles. The burning of Rock and Roll records, etc.

    My first 6 weeks in the US I earned an average income of $6,000 a night course grew to 80 students......I audited during the day. My prices were double the prices charged by Orgs.

    I started the boom.

    Which was the big win that turned into the huge overt.:grouch:

  6. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    QUOTE: "The orgs, in actual fact, do best when the staff are left the fuck alone to do their jobs. Being pulled apart month after month for these events has been factually destructive to the stats (including GI) of every org I have come in contact with."

    There's a truth.
  7. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader


    Calm down Alan. Its gonna be ok.

    We all been through that crap over the years, eh?

    Putting in alot of effort. And for what?

    Someones pockets?
  8. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron


    I feel better already! :)

    The money part does not bother me anywhere near as much as the entrapment, the slavery and the absolute reverse technology sold as OT Levels. :grouch: :grouch: :grouch:

  9. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    LOL....what a dork. I would have liked to see the "report" he wrote about you...Franchise Officer WW was at St. Hill at the time?

    Yeah, and while Dallas has the social veneer of a big city, it is still deeply in the Bible Belt....and those xtians can be real crazy some times....

    That wasnt an helped far more than you hurt.

    We all got bamboozled into "flowing power" to the old man....
    We just didn't see that he had injected a "Reactive Mind" into the organization via the GO and Intel ops until it was way too late....
  10. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I'd love to hear about that LB.
  11. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    I believe there was already a thread about it. Cant say for sure.

    But in a nutshell (LB can tell you), everyone in Scn got started on KTL as a fad. Many were left incomplete, especialy the staff. And they are not supposed to do anything BUT KTL when started, and that never happened. Many people started and bogged on KTL and could and did not finish. Even to this day hundreds (or more) are mid KTL, bogged, needing auditors, etc, but only one or no auditors technically able to audit them.

    Big mess.

    I think something like that happened with public too. But it hit the staff the worst.

    (I am/was a KTL C/S)
  12. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Thanks for that Bea. It was a little before I got in.
  13. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

  14. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader