Disconnection - Not always 'formal'.

Carmel

Crusader
Since my brother Gerry turned up here at ESMB, I've been looking at what has occurred within my family, as a result of my/our involvement with Scientology, in regard to 'disconnection'. None of us have 'formally' disconnected from another in the family, over Scientology, but emotionally we did. This has also extended to some of our friends.

As a very "dedicated Scientologist", I was in another world. It was a world that I believed my non scio sibblings and non scio friends didn't, couldn't, and wouldn't understand......I excluded them from it.

Except for my first couple of years within the ranks, it seemed I was in constant battle. I was stressed, unhappy, and yearning for something I thought could and should be. For years I had terror stomach, and pretty well lived on coffee and cigs. I had few to no friends who I could really talk to about what was going on in my heart. I couldn't really talk to Tim my husband - If and when I told him what was going on, he'd say "fuck them, leave staff!", and I didn't want to hear that. If and when I'd talk to all but one of my scio friends about what was going on, they'd say stuff like "write it up" or "aren't you being critical?", and I didn't want to hear that either. I did have a couple of brothers in Scn who I could talk to about it all, for a few years, but after a time, that fell by the wayside. I didn't/couldn't tell my non-scio sibblings what was going on because I knew they had concerns, if I did their reaction would have probably been shock, they would have told me to get out, and I didn't want to hear that either from someone who didn't understand or wouldn't accept why I was putting up with it all in the first place.

When it came to my life, aside from my sons, the vast majority of my attention and focus was on Scientology (and/or my purposes within it). I had non-scio business associates, and non-scio friends throughout my time in Scientology. I've always had a good social life, and have played the game of the 'social butterfly' pretty well. For me though it was always like "water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink", as far as my idea of real friendships went. I always had to wear some bloody hat, or be on guard to some extent and put on a front (or at least thought I had to). I so wanted to have friends I could trust, friends who I could be totally 'hat-less' with, but I didn't have them for the majority of the time while I was in Scn.

I couldn't talk to those who were "in" (for the most part), and I couldn't talk to those who weren't (especially my siblings). I hated putting on a front for my family. I loved them. I wanted to share with them and I wanted them to understand, but there was no way that they could. To save myself the hurt of "having them but not having them", it was easier to cut them off, emotionally, and avoid regular contact - It was kinda easier to be in a spiritual and emotional 'hermit mode', than to deal with a disappointment and a yearning for something I could 'never have'.

Since Scn (this past year), I have been able again to be 'hat-less' with many. I've been free to put the cards on the table again in regard to my heartfelt feelings about all this crap and angst. Whether on the net, or in real life, that emotional barrier I did have with just about everyone, has been breaking down.

I didn't really know it, but I had disconnected from my friends and family in an emotional and spiritual sense, and to the point where there was pretty well a disconnection in life because of the barrier I kinda 'had to' put there, to cope with it all.

Prior to Scn, this wasn't the case. Post Scn, it's not the case either. The 'disconnection' I'm talking about was emotional and spiritual, it manifested in various ways in life, and was prevalent most of the time during my involvement with Scn. It seems to me that it's one of those things inherent to one's involvement in Scn, for those who were/are 'dedicated'.

It's a sneaky one I reckon, and one worth looking at. For me it happened gradually, and I haven't seen it at all for what it was, until I've been looking at it in these last few days.

Whatever!
 
The informal disconnection you describe is the self imposed disconnection which most addict go through. Anyone who is critical of an addicts addiction is avoided both consciously and subconsciously. The last thing an addict wants is to be reminded he or she is an addict. It the case of Scientology if the disconnection is not self imposed , the cult will help you along with the addiction by mandatorily imposing the disconnection on your friends and family, until they are through chewing you up, then they will spit you out and let the people you disconnect from deal with you and all your debt. I bet this thread will be too painful to read for people still in the cult how are not ready to face their situation.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Thanks for that brilliant post. It is such a very valuable one for many, including myself. I am living it with family, kids, brothers, sisters, parents, friends....

The "emotional disconnection" is a real phenomenon to deal with. It is booby-trapped at so many levels and in so many ways if you try to connect. Hubbard did a masterful job of laying land mines in every direction to terrorize people emotionally.

Some weeks ago I had a long conversation with my lovely mom who I got into scn (along with all the rest of the family) decades ago. (yikes!) The subject of why I have been so "distant" came up. I explained that simply by answering her question and saying what I thought...that the family would be responsible to "write me up" and that would lead to a declare "....and then, Mom, you would have to disconnect from me, along with everyone else in the family including my kids, right?"

It was quite a moment.

We talked more. She understood that for many years I have avoided the subject of Scn in order to spare my own family from the trauma of having to report me and disconnect from me. (pause for a moment of sanity: What kind of insane group would force kids and mothers to "REPORT" their family members only to be ordered to disconnect from them???)

So THAT, I told her, is why I didn't say much of anything to anyone and kept a low profile on this incendiary subject of their "religion". In short, I shut up.

The handling that she eventually came up with was to really "validate me and tell me VERY WELL DONE for keeping my TRs in!" She is a very old woman now so I just let her stay on top of this very confusing discussion. I thanked her and told her I loved her

When I got off the phone I couldn't help but smile, thinking about an "OT" thanking another "OT" for Shutting TFU. (aka "keeping your trs in")

CONCLUSION: In Scn World it is "cause" worthy of praise to suppress your own thoughts and words. That how they keep the cages locked down there...
 
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Thanks for that brilliant post. It is such a very valuable one for many, including myself. I am living it with family, kids, brothers, sisters, parents, friends....

The "emotional disconnection" is a real phenomenon to deal with. It is booby-trapped at so many levels and in so many ways if you try to connect. Hubbard did a masterful job of laying land mines in every direction to terrorize people emotionally.

Some weeks ago I had a long conversation with my lovely mom who I got into scn (along with all the rest of the family) decades ago. (yikes!) The subject of why I have been so "distant" came up. I explained that simply by answering her question and saying what I thought, the family would be responsible to "write me up" and that would lead to a declare "....and then, Mom, you would have to disconnect from me, along with everyone else in the family including my kids, right?"

It was quite a moment.

We talked more. She understood that for many years I have avoided the subject of Scn in order to spare my own family from the trauma of having to report me and disconnect from me. (pause for a moment of sanity: What kind of insane group would force kids and mothers to "REPORT" their family members only to be ordered to disconnect from them???)

So THAT, I told her, is why I didn't say much of anything to anyone and kept a low profile on this incendiary subject of their "religion". In short, I shut up.

The handling that she eventually came up with was to really "validate me and tell me VERY WELL DONE for keeping my TRs in!" She is a very old woman now so I just let her stay on top of this very confusing discussion. I thanked her and told her I loved her

When I got off the phone I couldn't help but smile, thinking about an "OT" thanking another "OT" for Shutting TFU. (aka "keeping your trs in")

CONCLUSION: In Scn World it is "cause" worthy of praise to suppress your own thoughts and words. That how they keep the cages locked down there...

In Scn World your goals, needs, and desires are replaced with the the goals, needs, and desires of the cult, you are no longer an "Operating Human". In fact it's all about emotional disconnection, the only "emotion" which is allowed is when a senior Sceintology Staffer or Sea Orger is yelling in your face for having a thought of your own, in an attempt to introvert you back into cult think.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
In Scn World your goals, needs, and desires are replaced with the the goals, needs, and desires of the cult, you are no longer an "Operating Human". In fact it's all about emotional disconnection, the only "emotion" which is allowed is when a senior Sceintology Staffer or Sea Orger is yelling in your face for having a thought of your own, in an attempt to introvert you back into cult think.

So true. Every member must accept the GROUP'S goals and needs as senior to all else. The Church requires that you adopt and wear the identity of a gung-ho, dedicated (and very mindless) "Scientologist". They get you to accept the idea that it is somehow better to deny self and personal interests in the name of the Church's interests.

The only enthusiasm that is cultivated, allowed and admired is enthusiasm for LRH and the continuation and expansion of Hubbard's "baby", the Church of Scientology. Getting others to accept a pre-packaged set of beliefs, goals and needs is standard MIND CONTROL. Scientology does THAT so very well.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Scientology also requires that you 'disconnect' from your *self*. It's fun watching people coming onto ESMB and finding themselves again.

Zinj
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Basically, this would fall under "compartmentalization" in Kevinspeke. Yes, I did it too. The longer I was in, the more I realized it was important to keep some things to myself, or share them only with people who had a "need to know", and with them, to always spin it so that it was acceptable to them.

Scientology trains people to be less than open, and ultimately to never tell the whole truth to anybody, including themselves.
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
Good one Carmel.

I to am going through something similar and your post has got me looking at this a little differently, THANKS.

I think something I have had trouble with is to come fully out of the Scio thinking bubble.
Once you are out Scio should have no governing effect on what you do and I think its important to look at a decision being made as to whether it's your OWN or if its being dictated by some Scio law and go with your OWN decision. I have had a lot of trouble with this.
Now granted at times that could be hard due to personal situations but if the decision is still effected by Scio law in some way then working towards reducing the "hold" of Scio in that area is the next best thing and mostly just being aware of who is dictating your life.

Being yourself and making your own decisions is truly liberating.
 

Carmel

Crusader
So true. Every member must accept the GROUP'S goals and needs as senior to all else. The Church requires that you adopt and wear the identity of a gung-ho, dedicated (and very mindless) "Scientologist". They get you to accept the idea that it is somehow better to deny self and personal interests in the name of the Church's interests.

The only enthusiasm that is cultivated, allowed and admired is enthusiasm for LRH and the continuation and expansion of Hubbard's "baby", the Church of Scientology. Getting others to accept a pre-packaged set of beliefs, goals and needs is standard MIND CONTROL. Scientology does THAT so very well.
I can see that this was the case for many at various times in different places, however, it wasn't really the case for me.

I think my ambition, my goals and purposes, my identity etc, etc, were more my own than something imposed on me, but I wasn't your 'typical' scientologist. In addition to that, I was in ANZO were the culture within orgs was quite different to other Conts, up until the late nineties. I was often enthusiastic and passionate about things. I 'drove' myself, like a bastard at times. It was challenging to say the least, and that was the 'problem'.

In such an 'environment', it was tough, and whether this is 'true' or not, as the years went by, I felt like I had less and less allies to the point where I had none. It's like you're there for everone else, but no-one is there for you, so you''ve kinda got to shut it all down.

I didn't buy into a lot of the group think within orgs, however, I certainly put 'mechanisms' in place to 'survive', and this is what I am still 'wading' through.

Those mechanisms are and have varied from person to person, but I think what I talked about in the op is common to many.

Scientology also requires that you 'disconnect' from your *self*. It's fun watching people coming onto ESMB and finding themselves again.
I don't know that it 'requires' it, but if you're working within that 'scn machine', then ya just about can't survive without 'disconnecting' from yourself.

That "no case on post" thing, became a 24/7 thing.......a bitch of a thing to be sure, and probably the thing that I've been having the most trouble 'breaking down'.

And yeah, for you my dear, I'm sure it is fun! :giggle: :wink:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Scientology also requires that you 'disconnect' from your *self*. It's fun watching people coming onto ESMB and finding themselves again.

Zinj


Funny, yet profound........and along that line dig this:

The EP for leaving Scn is the same one that a BT has when leaving your body.

(according to hubbard) they cognite "I'M ME" and promptly leave.

(wait, if it doesn't work out for me having this much freedom out here, is it too late for me to return to being a BT on the corpus of Scn? lol)
 

Carmel

Crusader
Just as a qualifier....

I took Zinj's comment of it being "fun" as meaning pleasurable to see people 'winning'. I giggled 'cause I was thinking back to when I first came here, and how stroppy I was about certain things. Zinj has patiently sat back and just watched and waited, while being supportive, to so many of us - That's what's funny.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Scientology also requires that you 'disconnect' from your *self*. It's fun watching people coming onto ESMB and finding themselves again.

Zinj

How bloody true!

:eyeroll:


Great post Carmel and I totally get where you are coming from BTW.

What a load of utter rubbish scientology is ... :roflmao: and, isnt it GREAT to be OUT and back in the real world (though, it has to be said the real world is as mad as a meataxe these days) ... still, I prefer it to the suppression of the scientology world.

:hysterical:
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Since my brother Gerry turned up here at ESMB, I've been looking at what has occurred within my family, as a result of my/our involvement with Scientology, in regard to 'disconnection'. None of us have 'formally' disconnected from another in the family, over Scientology, but emotionally we did. This has also extended to some of our friends.

As a very "dedicated Scientologist", I was in another world. It was a world that I believed my non scio sibblings and non scio friends didn't, couldn't, and wouldn't understand......I excluded them from it.

Except for my first couple of years within the ranks, it seemed I was in constant battle. I was stressed, unhappy, and yearning for something I thought could and should be. For years I had terror stomach, and pretty well lived on coffee and cigs. I had few to no friends who I could really talk to about what was going on in my heart. I couldn't really talk to Tim my husband - If and when I told him what was going on, he'd say "fuck them, leave staff!", and I didn't want to hear that. If and when I'd talk to all but one of my scio friends about what was going on, they'd say stuff like "write it up" or "aren't you being critical?", and I didn't want to hear that either. I did have a couple of brothers in Scn who I could talk to about it all, for a few years, but after a time, that fell by the wayside. I didn't/couldn't tell my non-scio sibblings what was going on because I knew they had concerns, if I did their reaction would have probably been shock, they would have told me to get out, and I didn't want to hear that either from someone who didn't understand or wouldn't accept why I was putting up with it all in the first place.

When it came to my life, aside from my sons, the vast majority of my attention and focus was on Scientology (and/or my purposes within it). I had non-scio business associates, and non-scio friends throughout my time in Scientology. I've always had a good social life, and have played the game of the 'social butterfly' pretty well. For me though it was always like "water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink", as far as my idea of real friendships went. I always had to wear some bloody hat, or be on guard to some extent and put on a front (or at least thought I had to). I so wanted to have friends I could trust, friends who I could be totally 'hat-less' with, but I didn't have them for the majority of the time while I was in Scn.

I couldn't talk to those who were "in" (for the most part), and I couldn't talk to those who weren't (especially my siblings). I hated putting on a front for my family. I loved them. I wanted to share with them and I wanted them to understand, but there was no way that they could. To save myself the hurt of "having them but not having them", it was easier to cut them off, emotionally, and avoid regular contact - It was kinda easier to be in a spiritual and emotional 'hermit mode', than to deal with a disappointment and a yearning for something I could 'never have'.

Since Scn (this past year), I have been able again to be 'hat-less' with many. I've been free to put the cards on the table again in regard to my heartfelt feelings about all this crap and angst. Whether on the net, or in real life, that emotional barrier I did have with just about everyone, has been breaking down.

I didn't really know it, but I had disconnected from my friends and family in an emotional and spiritual sense, and to the point where there was pretty well a disconnection in life because of the barrier I kinda 'had to' put there, to cope with it all.

Prior to Scn, this wasn't the case. Post Scn, it's not the case either. The 'disconnection' I'm talking about was emotional and spiritual, it manifested in various ways in life, and was prevalent most of the time during my involvement with Scn. It seems to me that it's one of those things inherent to one's involvement in Scn, for those who were/are 'dedicated'.

It's a sneaky one I reckon, and one worth looking at. For me it happened gradually, and I haven't seen it at all for what it was, until I've been looking at it in these last few days.

Whatever!

Thank you Carmel

This is so true. It's only since I've been out that I can truly communicate to my family and friends.

I found I withheld myself and the world of Scientology from my family and friends. I was alway on guard and holding my position in space. I did not invite them into my world, I closed the door and shut them out. I became unapproachable, internally I was so unhappy, angry and alone ....

The waxed enthusiastic was in full swing when engaging with family and Scientologists. We were withholding that we were in $600,000 worth of debt due to poor decisions from being involved with Scientologists on various projects, contributing to the Church etc.

Only a couple of very close friends new the extent of our situation. No family member knew, and still don't. After all we were Scientologists, we had two kids in the SO and we had to show that we were able. We worked our butts off getting out of debt... it took 6 years to truly be debt free, to go bankrupt was just unacceptable. We did it not through our Scientology comm lines but through hard work and keeping our own counsel. When the going got rough we were all by ourselves no support team ... nothing. It was our condition and we worked our way out of it.

I agree it is a covert form of disconnection and do not realise that you have actually disconnected your emotions from others until you are sitting back and viewing and you go WOW ... where were we... . It's very sneaky and destructive mechanism.

Now, I'm dealing with another disconnection from my own daughter at Flag, slowly but surely she is cutting the comm line, as I'm now out of the circle of trust. She has not openly said she's disconnecting but her inaction on communication is a strong indication.

It's an interesting flow and one my own family experienced when I was in and when I mention the situation they comment 'She'll will come out of it' so it's a waiting game. Obviously, they waited for me to come out of it... and I did :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:
 

Doom

Lurking.
I took Zinj's comment of it being "fun" as meaning pleasurable to see people 'winning'. I giggled 'cause I was thinking back to when I first came here, and how stroppy I was about certain things. Zinj has patiently sat back and just watched and waited, while being supportive, to so many of us - That's what's funny.
I totally agree Carmel, The Zinja is that sort of person, but you have found yourself and have now become a supporting terminal to others and not just here, Shredder and I are so happy to be out and you played a big part of us getting Out.:happydance:
 

Good twin

Floater
For the last ten years of my mother's life. She was bedridden. My older sister took her in. My sister and her husband cared for my mother for a decade while I was busy clearing the planet. I spoke to my mom on the phone pretty regularly but only visited about twice a year. She was living just and hour away from where I live. My family never complained. They were always extremely proud of what I was doing and supportive beyond belief. When my mom died I took a day off post and visited my sister.

Even after I left Scientology and told my sister, she said that I should never regret what I did as a Scientologist because I had helped people. God, I hope she is right.

Right, Carmel. Right, Zinj. Thank you both.
 

HCObringOrder?

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great post Carmel!
Picked the words out of my brain where I could not find them. :happydance: :happydance:

I sent your post to my father in hopes he can understand me more. :blush:

I think it would be great to have a Forum for the non-Scientology family/friends to say their views. :coolwink:

Like Good Twin, I was there trying to help myself and others. Now it is a question if I helped them or ultimately hurt them. :confused2:
Such is life, so you cannot stop trying. :yes:
AmIRite?
 

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Carmel,

Excellent point. My kids and a few of my friends are still in and my relationship with them is not quite the same as when I was a true believer. Like you said, the disconnection does not have to be formal.

I too am a stranger amongst my family members after being in for all those years.

TP
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
yer one of my hero's
I have been out for 14 years and this is the only place I have been able to talk to about my time in.

Love

Bob
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
I had few to no friends who I could really talk to about what was going on in my heart.

me, too.

I believe the barriers to communication created by the Church of Scientology are the worst problem because all the other abuses would have been resolvable if we were allowed to just talk.
 
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