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Discussion re Pandora's Box

Vinaire

Sponsor
OPENING PANDORA’S BOX​
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In setting your goals you are setting the desire for future wants – but at the same time you are opening your own Pandora’s Box of what has been holding you back in life, what you are fighting within yourself, what self-destructive and self-sabotaging habit patterns you have, what self-destructive and self-sabotaging belief systems you have employed and still are employing, what self-destructive and self-sabotaging actions or great harm you are liable to cause if you have great power and wealth.

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At the beginning of the great cycle (SATYUGA), things were very simple, and the goals must have been very creative. By the time one reaches the end of the great cycle (KALIYUGA), things have become so very complicated and jumbled up that the goal generally is in the direction of the destruction of all that complexity, and a desire to return to simplicity. This may translate differently for different people.

We have been in the KALIYUGA for the last 5000 years or so. All the worlds greatest religions have come about during this period and their goals have been to bring about this simplicity.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
What was so wonderful about these masters was their willingness to freely share their new discoveries with each other. Between us each had in excess of 5,000 clients. This was quite a vast undertaking, more grassroots than anything else.

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Repetitive process procedures have the utility of getting all possible answers that the mind offers upon being asked. These procedures become dangerous when no answer comes up and the preclear starts to dig for the answer. Unfortunately, this was not clearly stated in Scientology.

Repetitive process procedures become dangerous when the preclear is not grooved into THE LOOK WITHOUT THINKING principle.

The subject of BY-PASSED CHARGE has not been fully understood. By-pass charge comes about when the mind has not offered an answer to the question and one goes about digging for one. This is the side product due to the misapplication of the Repetitive process procedure as described above.

By-passed charge comes about when one violates the principle of LOOK WITHOUT THINKING.

The use of Correction lists simply handles the mess and not the source of mess. The source of mess was built into the original Dianetic procedure; i.e. you trick and bypass the mind because the person cannot see. This is not always the case. The person cannot see through the fog put up by the mind because he is thinking. The fog is actually that very thinking. If the person simply looks he can un-stack the mind.

The solution to the mind is un-stacking it and not the attempt to penetrate it by trickery.

The study technology is wonderful indeed; but the efficiency of its application is againn based on LOOKING WITHOUT THINKING. One looks in the direction the non-optimum attention points one to. This brings up the area of confusion. One then unpacks the key words in the area of confusion for their meaning. The Data Series of Scientology is based on this principle of study technology.

The Presence Drills seems to have been derived from the Vipassana Meditation techniques developed by Buddha. One can get more out of simply practicing those original techniques.

The current movement seems to be primarily studying the old eastern technology and analyzing it with western incisive analytic tools. This combination is excellent. But while analyzing and packaging those procedures in new forms one should be careful not to violate those ancient principles. One of the very basic ancient principle is:

LOOK WITHOUT THINKING.

PRACTICE LOOKING. THEN THE KNOWING THAT FOLLOWS IS LIGHTNING FAST.


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RogerB

Crusader
At the beginning of the great cycle (SATYUGA), things were very simple, and the goals must have been very creative. By the time one reaches the end of the great cycle (KALIYUGA), things have become so very complicated and jumbled up that the goal generally is in the direction of the destruction of all that complexity, and a desire to return to simplicity. This may translate differently for different people.

We have been in the KALIYUGA for the last 5000 years or so. All the worlds greatest religions have come about during this period and their goals have been to bring about this simplicity.

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Only 5,000 years??? Boy, you are shortchanging yourself . . . . my memory of it goes for a lot longer than that! :D

R
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Living life is not just the understanding of words or articulation of words but it is action of living, the action of relationship, the action of action, the result by reaction to an action.

It is knowledge applied. The more accurate the knowledge, the more accurate the action. The more accurate the action, the more successful the outcome, the more successful and happy is the applicant.

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Living life has to do with creativity. One creates actions as one goes through life. Underlying those actions is Knowingness. That knowingness comes from LOOKING. Such knowledge is dynamic. It does not come from memory. It comes from direct looking at any moment.

There is second hand knowledge out there. The function of that knowledge is simply to clarify one’s viewpoint when one looks at a certain area of activity.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
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Their greatest betrayal came when L. Ron Hubbard stated in a narcistic Policy letter, Keeping Scientology Working, dated 7 February, 1965, that he and only he discovered the exercises, drills and procedures.

At the time though we were shocked by this Policy Letter, but at least the tapes, books and bulletins still had their acknowledgements of the different discoverers of the exercises, drills and procedures.

Sadly, over the next 20 years all mention of these originators and sources were erased by Hubbard’s people who also set about attempting to destroy their reputations, this was done by false accusations, vilification and false destructive stories about them.

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There is definitely a failure here to acknowledge the researchers/re-discoverers of knowledge by L. Ron Hubbard. The intention appears to be some aberrated marketing philosophy to promote oneself by riding on the coattails of knowledge, and make money. This is the height of priesthood. At best, it is the mistrust of others, and the resulting syndrome of the “only one.”

We see this syndrome in some today who are trying to make money by posing as the only purveyors of “knowledge.”

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RogerB

Crusader
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerB View Post
Only 5,000 years??? Boy, you are shortchanging yourself . . . . my memory of it goes for a lot longer than that!

R
Please refer to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga

If you focus on errors, you will just see errors even when there are none. That is called dub-in.

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So . . . your reference says:
KalYug (Devanāgarī: कलियुग, lit. "age of (the male demon) Kali", or "age of vice") is the last of the four stages that the world goes through as part of the cycle of yugas described in the Indian scriptures. The other ages are Satya Yuga, Treta Yuga and Dvapara Yuga. According to the Surya Siddhanta, an astronomical treatise that forms the basis of all Hindu and Buddhist calendars, Kali Yuga began at midnight (00:00) on 18 February 3102 BCE [1] in the proleptic Julian calendar, or 23 January 3102 BC in the proleptic Gregorian calendar. This date is also considered by many Hindus to be the day that Krishna died after being mortally wounded by an arrow. Most interpreters of Hindu scriptures believe that earth is currently in Kali Yuga. Some, such as Swami Sri Yukteswar,[2] David Frawley,[3] and Paramhansa Yogananda[4] believe that it is now near the beginning of Dvapara Yuga. The Kali Yuga is traditionally thought to last 432,000 years.

Actually, my comment stands. Asserting this religious belief as truth is about as accurate as asserting the geologic and creation of the universe time of the Christian bible as being accurate. :duh:

Your original post I commented on is this:
At the beginning of the great cycle (SATYUGA), things were very simple, and the goals must have been very creative. By the time one reaches the end of the great cycle (KALIYUGA), things have become so very complicated and jumbled up that the goal generally is in the direction of the destruction of all that complexity, and a desire to return to simplicity. This may translate differently for different people.

We have been in the KALIYUGA for the last 5000 years or so.
All the worlds greatest religions have come about during this period and their goals have been to bring about this simplicity.

The part I highlight in red is that part that my memory spans for greater than "5,000 years" . . . . indeed, we've gone through this cycle many times, and many of them for far greater length of time than "5,000 years."

But you may stick to your limiting belief is you choose . . . :D

R
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
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Almost all of these great philosophers were vilified by those in power at that time. In many cases the discoveries lead to their death, as well as the death of their followers. For the greatest problem of a new discovery is it often makes those who are in power wrong.

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This may have been the track in the West, but not the track in the East where knowledge was valued and the purveyors of knowledge were revered.

Buddha was greatly revered and respected by the kings during and even after his life time.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
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Definition: OMNI-SOVEREIGNTY:

The ability to be sovereign and omni-sovereign which includes being willing to be responsible for co-creating with and helping others reach and maintain their sovereignty and omni-sovereignty. This includes being willing to be omni-responsible for all sides of any game and the positive players and negative opposition that are part of all games of life.

Definition: SOVEREIGNTY:

The state of being able to be the owner or supreme power capable of creating, owning and being the controller of your own space, own time, own energy, own production, own products, own objects, own subjects and own universe.

Total sovereignty over one’s own universe would include the ability to span and permeate the spectrums of the mood scale, but would also include the ability to naturally emanate

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Here are the dictionary definitions of the word “sovereign.”

sov•er•eign
–noun
1. a monarch; a king, queen, or other supreme ruler.
2. a person who has sovereign power or authority.
3. a group or body of persons or a state having sovereign authority.
4. a gold coin of the United Kingdom, equal to one pound sterling: went out of circulation after 1914.

–adjective
5. belonging to or characteristic of a sovereign or sovereignty; royal.
6. having supreme rank, power, or authority.
7. supreme; preeminent; indisputable: a sovereign right.
8. greatest in degree; utmost or extreme.
9. being above all others in character, importance, excellence, etc.
10. efficacious; potent: a sovereign remedy.

It appears that one can be sovereign only in one’s own universe where one is giving life to everything. It is impossible to be sovereign in a shared universe without getting into games conditions.

The game of “sovereign” in a shared universe becomes attempt to run the life of the opponent.

Why does one has to be a sovereign? Why not just be totally detached while playing the game to the fullest? Winning and losing doesn't matter.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
S-P-I-E-P-I-R is the acronym for Spirit - Perceive- Intend - Envision - Plan - Implement - Result.

I found that the majority of clients either were exterior or went exterior very quickly - most have had an Ascension Experience at some time or another.

Consequently they need a series of objective processes that would allow them to operate exterior.

Objectives run exterior are possibly the most powerful upper-level processes that I know of.

The reason for this is they parallel life actions - making life a rising scale process.

Spirit - Perceive- Intend - Envision - Plan - Implement - Result is the ability sequence that each being goes through in any life sequence.....from the simple action of going shopping - a being follows this cycle - ie; You perceive you are out of milk - you intend to get some milk - you envision getting in your car, driving to the store and getting milk - you decide to do it now (a plan) - you implement the plan - get in your car, go to the store, purchase the milk, drive home - result you now have milk. :happydance:

Alan


“Exterior” defined as moving out of the body does not make sense. What seems to happen here is that one’s viewpoint is not attached or fixed to the body. One can then look either from the body’s viewpoint or from a viewpoint elsewhere in space.

EXTERIOR simply means that one’s viewpoint is no longer identified with the viewpoint of the body.

“To operate exterior” would then mean to continue to look from one's own viewpoint rather than from the viewpoint of the body.


To run objectives while exterior would simply involve LOOKING and EXPERIENCING the environment from one's viewpoint rather than through the viewpoint of the body.

It is no more complicated than that.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
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Yes, I originated the Locate and Indicate Tech and the Correction List Tech.

The 1st one was L4. List Corrections.

The 2nd was L1 - ARC Break Handling.

From those came the other Correction Lists.


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I think Alan did a great job handling the mess LRH processes were making. The preclear only needed to look at where his or her attention was stuck.

Spotting is looking without thinking.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
I like the attitude expressed in this post. A few worries though:

1) Much of the “Tech” involves non-testable, purely speculative metaphysical / theological hypotheses which could not be the subject of a respectable science. E.g. the doctrine that the individual is essentially an undying Thetan. And all the other views in Scientology which rely crucially on the existence of Thetans and various supernatural properties associated with them.

2) Of those parts of the Tech which vaguely promise to be scientific in nature – e.g. the armchair psychology in Dianetics – much of this isn’t yet formulated precisely enough to be tested by experiment. Take the theory of the Reactive Mind. Positing this entity is roughly on par with positing a “subconscious”. Much more work would have to be done in saying just what this “bank” is supposed to be, and how the theory of it can cohere with our best current theories of mind and brain, before we can determine whether we should accept its existence. Forget “squirrelling”: so much elaboration and clarification is needed that very little of the eventual final statements of these theories would be attributable to Hubbard’s original writings or (probably) inspiration. The result would not resemble Scientology as we now know it.

3) There are some reasons to think, pre-emptively, that much of 2) would turn out to be a pointless enterprise. To take the example of the “bank”. Though I won’t argue the point, I’m inclined to say that the “Reactive Mind” has virtually nil explanatory value with respect to the mental phenomena Hubbard discusses in DMSMH. In other words, the research program of developing Hubbard’s theories into something respectable in the first place would need some serious motivating.

I believe that the best evidence of a science of mind would be when it becomes popular as a grass roots movement with nobody pushing it.

This would be evidence by results that are easy to produce and thus, promote themselves.

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The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Who?

Jeesh - yikes! WTF did I miss??? I've just read this thread and started reading Alan Walter's writings... HOLY F**K!!! All those people help to develop the original scientology and the goat stole all the work and claimed it was his work? Where in the hell have I been for all these years? Oh yeah,... trying to ignore my programming.

The more I read about Alan the more I am filled with awe and the stronger my feelings of sadness are for never having talked with him and never being able to.

Sorry I missed you Alan. Hopefully I can catch up with you on the spirit plane when my journey is finished. Cheers.

Fruckin hubbard STOLE THIS STUFF???? CHANGED IT????? FUCKED WITH SOMETHING THAT REALLY DID WORK???????

I'm going to need some time. :unsure:

...still shaking my head as I finish this...
 

AlphOhm

Traveler of time/space
Only 5,000 years??? Boy, you are shortchanging yourself . . . . my memory of it goes for a lot longer than that! :D

R

Reminds me of the time I actually went to the door to talk with a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses. Elderly white lady and younger black lady with papers in hand and "Our God" (The Book) tucked underneath their arms.

We got to the part where they were describing to me that the age of the earth was around 6500 years. My comment, "Really? I've been around longer than that!"

Two reactions: the black gal looked like she had a cognition (a muffled "me too") and the white lady looked shocked not unlike that she thought that I might be the antichrist. They unfortunately had to leave shortly thereafter.



I just got done with reading this thread over a couple days--great posts from those who were there as the tech unfolded. Thank you.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Bypassed Charge

The day Mystic discovered the BPC Tech - he and I had lunch at Fortes - he told me of his discoveries!

That Afternoon I went back to St Hill - offered to clean-up ALL the failed BC students - I chose the Boiler Room to do it,

I told no-one what I was doing (to be honest I did not know how to articulate it) :) - but from those actions the Original L1 and L4 came into existence - these lists were designed to handle BPC - not Charge.

Often people would start a line outside the boiler room - a few would be in wheelbarrows - a few days later LRH was standing there - he wanted to know what was going on - I told him - he asked me for a copy of what I did - he rushed back to his crypt - he took those Lists and and issued the L1 and L4 correction lists as his originations.

Alan


By-passed charge?

When a person looks at something about which he has no clue as to what it is, he tends to drag up additional past experiences to interpret it. When even that cannot explain it then he brings up more random past experiences and so on. A person may get so totally lost in all this randomity, that he forgets about the original something, which started all this. It may get to be so desperate that a person may even lose all consciousness.

That starting point could be a very basic stable datum (anchor point). Somehow that stable datum got shaken or invalidated in the course of processing (L&N would do this most readily), letting lose a sudden maelstrom which then hid that stable datum itself from view, leaving the person anchorless.

The task then becomes to corral enough of that person’s attention units to somehow put him back together again. The stable data in this maelstrom would be what triggered it all in the first place. Just spotting (looking without thinking) the starting point may put the genie back in the lamp again.

The amazing part here is the power and strength of the confusion restrained by such an anchor point. The spotting of anchor point simply bottles up the confusion again. It does not eliminate it. Sometimes I wonder if Scientology auditing makes a person feel good by creating anchor points for him, which helps restrain his confusion instead of truly handling that confusion. That just creates more attachment to Scientology.

With these created anchor points a person feels good. In truth, he is not getting freer, but getting more attached to Scientology.

This sudden bypassed charge is likely to come about when one is trying to penetrate the mind with force in violation of all the natural protections offered by the mind. This also provides the wonderful opportunity to implant new anchor points. Dianetics and Scientology seems to be set up that way.

The correct approach would be to un-stack the mind the way it got stacked up. That may take longer but it would be thorough and permanent with no danger of bypassed charge. This is the KHTK approach.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
...

And, to make matters worse, the bloody things are run muzzled . . . no two-way communication between auditor and PC . . . forget about telling your auditor anything in session, like, "I just had a big cognition, or ability regained, or I think this process is flat." Hell, no! That's change! Another twenty minutes for you!:duh: :omg:

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I can't imagine what could be the theory behind the above approach. It seems that Hubbard was going by trial and error in a random fashion.

An Objective process simply requires looking at one's environment and experiencing it fully without thinking and resisting. This brings one fully in communication with that environment.

The session should be for the preclear. The preclear knows when his attention is optimum with respect to the environment and should end the process then.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
I first wrote Pandoras Box about 2 1/2 years ago - it was mainly unverified speculation on my part.

My story is really mine and my teammates story - both spiritual entities and this life spiritual teammates.

Challenge I have known for more than 45 years, plus she worked with me for many tumultuos years - I have also known RogerB, Dart, Mystic, and most of the XSO team that has worked with me for more than 40 years which has helped to verify much of what is written.

It has been the XSO team that has help me verify what was done to Yvonne who I believe was the most powerful person outside Ron and MSH in the history of Scio.

The jealousy of MSH and the absolute destructive behavior of Ron done to Yvonne and her family is beyond comprehension - yet this behavior was repeated again and again on anyone that threatened their empire.

That 1,000's of true seekers joined and attempted to contribute only to run into this hidden behavior pattern was remarkable - some fantastic discoveries were made and are now seeing the light of day.

I'm a team player - I play with teams - teams of doctors, teams of nurses, teams of spiritual beings - in my youth I played with teams that allowed you to go from attack to defence instantly - as soon as the other side got the ball - Rugby, Soccer, Australian Rules, Hockey, Ice Hockey and Basketball are all such teams - Baseball and American Football are mainly fixed position sports.

The Ladies of XSO have long ago earned my respect for their bravery and honesty - I am incredibly honored to have their help in untangling this cluster-fuck! :)

So on with the story! :)

Alan


I think that Hubbard's behavior is very much in line with his philosophy of INDIVIDUALITY (SELF) as opposed to Buddha's philosophy of NIRVANA (NO SELF).

Hubbard aspired to being the Supreme Cause, whereas Buddha went beyond both Cause and Effect.

Hubbard confused the MEST universe with his own universe, something that he once said the psychotics are apt to do. He thought he was giving life to everyone and everything in the MEST universe, and so everyone and everything was for his taking according to his pleasure. Hubbard aspired to be, and tried to act like the Supreme Being, while promising the same to others.

There can't be more than one Supreme Being in any universe.

So, the goal of being cause over all MEST and life is an oxymoron. Yet many people bought it in Scientology. I am not sure if a similar goal is still being forwarded through Knowledgism. If it is then it is bound to fail.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
What happened was I had the highest Goal as well as its opposite - thus I spanned the Spectrums of the Physical Universe.

As I did the steps I saw the exact layout of My Physical Universe Games Matrix it was folded within others PU Games Matrices.

Thus it was also being to a degree created by others.

I saw exactly how a Reliable Item was composed - how there was an inner black core collapsed universe - when I put my full attention on it - it began to unravel and straighten out - then the RI disolved - this happened to thousands of pairs of RI's.

I saw and erased how I used my own powers to restrain myself.


Alan


This idea of dichotomy or opposition is very interesting. It is two opposing flows exactly balancing each other. It is what makes something persist. That is how mass is created. I need to look at it from physics point of view.

What creates a photon out of an electromagnetic flow? Or, what makes an electron persist? It is almost like a flow doubling on itself. What makes it double on itself? The surface of a photon or electron must have some tension that keeps the flow running back and forth upon itself inside it. There is some kind of resonance. It is like two things switching back and forth very rapidly. It is like two terminals rapidly switching their identities back and forth. Neither can let the other go, so they persist. Each one gets its identity from the other.

This is very interesting.

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