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DM's "New" Quad Grades

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
This is not what hypnosis is.

I think we may have run into the first barrier to study here - already knowing all about it.

There are hundreds of years of write ups and lots of research on hypnosis, way more than L Ron Hubbard ever spoke or detailed.

This is a huge MU for you, and for many of those who have been in Scientology.

I'm not trying to put you down, or to insult you. I am saying something that I believe might help you.

Find a book or website on hypnosis that has nothing to do with L Ron Hubbard and read it.

In fact, here a good history of it from hypnosis.com

And here's a good start on what hypnosis actually is: Hypnosis and Scientology
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Did you ever think about the fact that "case" is only what you concieve it to be? So in your mind, maybe its not case.

But OT case is supposed to be other beings. And they may have taken on your valence. So they will be very hard to find.

Wouldnt it be wild to find out your valence, your very beingness was all a BT's in the first place?

Sorry, I went into the valence of a Scientology reg. Now give me your wallet.

:lol: I guess I'll handle my OT case when it presents itself to me.

I was wondering if the yogis in India could handle it through samadhi.

Could one handle it through Buddhist meditation?

.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I have some questions.

You have to keep in mind that I am an ignoramus about a lot of the tech stuff.

1) Why bother doing NED at all if DM has said that people don't go Clear on NED, and can only actually go Clear by being put through the Alternate Route?

2) Is it possible DM's going to wait until these people are OT to decide they "need grades" and make them do their Expanded Grades at NOTs rates?

3) If he's trying to speed people up the Bridge, why 8 intensives of Objectives?

4) (This is not a tech question.) I read recently about seminars aboard the Freewinds. I thought it was already out of dry dock?


1) I dont think DM ever stated that. Unless I missed something. A person CAN go Clear on NED. For those whoe dont, you have the alternate Clear route.

2) that wouldnt suprize me too much. That happened years ago, though, where Grades were put in heavily on all public. I got my grades after OT IV, which is part of why my freeloader bill is so high. Its not a current thing (as of 2004). Objectives were getting heavy attention, as well as Clear state. That was about it.

3) The theory of that is going to be that once the basics, the foundation are in, the other steps go faster. Are you familiar much with Objectives? A major part of them is (unstated that I know of, Alan might know more on this) that they are to train a pc to follow auditing commands and answer questions. Having that aced by the pc makes later levels faster. That is covered somewhere, but not directly on an Objectives ref that I know of.

Alot of times when pcs cannot answer auditing commands, Objectives would be looked into. In most cases, they were found to be quickied. As a C/S, I never noticed doing large amounts of hours on Objectives to be damaging to a case. Other auditing actions, yes. But objectives get you more aware of the environment and get you more into communication.

Its weird. I am anti Scn. But I still can answer technical questions as if I am regging.

this is all new to me. So please bear with me, ok?

I hope this answers your questions, Lulu. Please, if you have others, post them and I will try to answer (anything up to OT Elig I dealt with until 2004).
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
<snips>

that they are to train a pc to follow auditing commands and answer questions. Having that aced by the pc makes later levels faster. That is covered somewhere, but not directly on an Objectives ref that I know of.

<snip>

But objectives get you more aware of the environment and get you more into communication.

Its weird. I am anti Scn. But I still can answer technical questions as if I am regging.


Unrelated to your answer to Lulu's questions, I found this interesting. I think a *lot* of the 'Training' is training in 'following commands'. It carries over to all the rest of the 'Training' and it's easy to see why the later stuff would go faster if it's well indoctrinated :)

But, following commands and answering questions is a 'weird' form of 'communication', except in the Scientology sense.

I'm not surprised that you can 'get into the tech head' thing though, even though you're now 'anti' (as you put it.)

It takes a 'flexible' mind to be able to ingest the inherent contradictions of Hubbardism (as in 'newspeak') and, it's also not surprising that now out, you notice the cognitive dissonance.

Zinj
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
This blew a lot of charge for me. About "old Dianetics" still being valid. I have a little horror story I have never dared mentioned. I will most likely get some negative feedback for posting it. I was sitting in an Org one night with a very well known, and very well loved Sea Org executive. He was on a mission and I had pushed him a LOT of power and this was no rinky dink mission. He leaned over his desk and looked at me and said,...now mind you, this guy had been in the Sea Org a LONG time...he said, "I think you are the only clear actually on the planet. If not, the clearest clear I have ever met."

Every time I see someone that is "clear" posting on one of the forums that they had no benefit actually, it hits me me in some sad way and also like maybe I am in some nightmare.

I had a reoccurring nightmare as a child, I would wake up. get dressed, leave the front of the house. All of the houses were the same. As I opened my door all of the others would step out at the same time. We would all leave our houses at the same time and start walking down the walkway at the same time. But midway down I got this nausiating feeling I was in a hall of mirrors. I would stop and sit down on my walkway to vomit while everyone else would continue to the end of the driveway and I was the only one out of this hall of mirrors.

I have often wondered if the NED produced a different kind of clear, maybe one that was not stable.

Some things do not make sense to me. Like, how could a person run dianetics after clear (I had zero resource there to pull from after clear).

I mean, the leader of the Church, DM, targeted and attacked an RPFer with body guards looking on as he beat the shit out of this guy. This is not a clear.

If the guy in charge obviously is not a clear why is he there? What is his motivation as he must KNOW he is not a clear.

How can all of the staff put up with the madness if they are clear? How many of them are clear? Any?

Hasn't anyone in the Sea Org read Science of Survival?

Sometimes I think maybe only 5% of the population has a reactive mind and perhaps the value of Dianetics was overestimated.

I really don't understand why it all made perfect sense to me and it all worked yet some think they were just under some power of suggestion.

I don't even understand why it doesn't occurr to almost everyone that this is total magick practice.

I really don't understand the Sea Org and what happened there, except that Hubbard maybe played some cruel joke putting militia as police with magick for his own amusement.

But all of this is avenues of mystery that acts as a distraction and the more I think about it the more I seperate from my own luck.

It is not easy to keep on walking and not look back.

It is not easy to leave something you know for something you do not know.

But I will tell you one thing, the Ron's Org people have another ladder down from this villiage to another that is very very interesting.

It is hard to move on and leave people behind. That is why I post on these forums.

But I know my time is coming, when I will have to walk on and not look back.

I always hate to let go of the company.

And as you probably know, the further up the bridge you go, the less company you have.

I have recently wondered about the purpose of this planet.

With my understanding of physics I always come to the same conclusion. Energy.

As people decay as in a waste fill, they can be used for energy in other places.

Just like we use energy here for our electricity, energy will be culled and utilized on other planets.

I think the job to turn this whole society around was an unreal target.

I think it's every man for himself now.

Hi, Illusioness,

Your post really grabbed my attention. Some of the things you said I have thought too. I too have been looking at this energy concept for a long time. It started when I read Mr. Moody's books. He developed what I believe he calls "hemi-sync". In one of his books he is given the explanation that we are here to get psyched up to put out energy jolts for others, for "god".

If you have ever perused some of the reptilian theorists (and experiencers as they claim) you will also hear the story about how we are an energy source for other beings.

Ron wrote a bit about how other beings would trap a thetan and make him power a lamp or some such.

Perhaps that was part of the huge appeal of the movie "Matrix", bodies in pawn being used as batteries. Although I think it was not accurate of what would be going on if it were.

I often wonder why Ron DeWolfe is given so much the silent treatment in the freezone when he talks about his dad being heavily involved in black magick. He says black magick, which I assume there is a white counterpart. Was Ron working white or black magick? It reminds me of the child who is trying to tell their parents about the pedophiliac grandfather and no one will believe them because the grandfather is just way too socially charming.

I wonder why the hell the past lifers I speak with recall almost nothing about their encounters with Ron and scientology last lifetime. Only flickers of fleeting pictures.

You are right, I have not seen a present lifetime clear who can match me, a past life clear, and I have the problems of dealing with this "uncleared" body.

That means I would certainly like to get to know you better because, as you said, it gets lonely at the top. The wrong solution is to purposely degrade oneself to match the level of one's uncleared friends and then get stuck there. I sadly saw the leader of the Nez Pierce Indians do this, and he died in a ditch.

Interestingly, in the Freezone I am meeting people of comparable and greater magnitude than myself.

The question about DM is a good one. The idea was put out that he is the incarnation of Joseph Smith. I am still pulling that thread and from some aspects I can see how that could be true. I also heard that Jentz is a Mormon.

I doubt if he has had much real auditing of the being, maybe something else, but not the being, and he is systematically destroying or dumbing down auditors.

There is a general refusal to co-study Magick alongside Scientology and I think that a comparative study would do a lot of people a lot of good. I have resisted studying Magick because I know it would totally intrigue me, similar to alchemy, and I have a more mundane, less consuming project first.

Also, to me, the purest magick is simply deciding and doing, and magick, like scientology does have a lot of unnecessary additives, people trying to take the simple (but unconfrontable) and turn it into "easy". These additives can be addictive as the beautiful trappings of a game, so I'm keeping myself on a simple path.

I too am writing the final chapter of my relationship with scientology and I wonder what it will take for me to finally be able to walk away. I don't need to clear the planet, at least not the way Ron and CofS promote. That is a "means justifies the ends" approach. I don't think so anyway. I think I just need to help out a few friends.

I personally saw anything theta intimately associated with the church get degraded and they either left or were suppressed. Lester Bland was one really sad case of this.

About it being lonely at the higher spiritual awarenesses, I understand. I have been wondering if that too is not a compulsion and if I should be able to flex either way and all degrees in between, i.e., to be content to be alone forever or to be forever communing with others, either way and all shades in between.

Perhaps we can walk away from scientology by walking away from our compulsions. Walking away itself might be a compulsion, not for you, but I'm talking in general.

I see a wonderful "now" and future for myself and for others around me.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, some things are clearing up for me now.

I never went on to OT levels, and I was told that I was Clear (on CCRD) in 1999. So, what happened to my OT case? What is it like to have one's OT case set in?

Could it be that I went clear on Dianetics back in 1970, and my OT case set in after that. I tried to handle it with Dianetics on Flag but was very discouraged and thought myself to be a dog pc.

Then blinkless TR0 helped me, but my case kept bothering me. The New Vitality RD at the end of 1975 helped but I still had attention on may case. Then I had Grades in late seventies, but I still had attention on may case.

The attention on my case did not go away until I completed the Running program in 1981.

Since then I have had no attention on my case. I went in 1999 to get CCRD which went very fast. Probably, it just verified my state of Clear. So, what happened to my OT Case?

.

What is the "Running Program"?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I think it is called "Cause Resurgence RD" now and it is part of Super Power.

Obviously, it involves running on your two feet. :)

.

Probably they should abandon the running in circles part (bad implications; makes spinny; goes nowhere) and instead put in treadmill/generators in the Stupor Power Building.

Then the treadies could really get their 'charge' off and power the air conditioners at the same time...

Zinj
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I think it is called "Cause Resurgence RD" now and it is part of Super Power.

Obviously, it involves running on your two feet. :)

.

In the hope of winning the "Pedantic Post of the Day" award: It's not technically part of Super Power. It gets to be released at the same time. Interestingly, it can be done several times. Do I get a prize Emma? :)

I'd love to hear more detail of your personal experience with this, Vinaire.
All I know about it is that it claims to handle the thetan's abhorrence for their energy flows being out of alignment.

Cheers
tanstaafl
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
In the hope of winning the "Pedantic Post of the Day" award: It's not technically part of Super Power. It gets to be released at the same time. Interestingly, it can be done several times. Do I get a prize Emma? :)

I'd love to hear more detail of your personal experience with this, Vinaire.
All I know about it is that it claims to handle the thetan's abhorrence for their energy flows being out of alignment.

Cheers
tanstaafl

Well, it did something for me, because, since then, I have been pretty much on top of my case, compared to before that RD.

Soon after that RD (with no further handling on my case) I left S.O., and was able to pull myself together within a year. That year I spent in India looking after my father who was suffering from cancer, until he passed away. My companion during that period were the books "Scn 8-8008" and "The Phoenix Lectures."

After that one year, I returned to US. Within a month I got a job and got married. I was living about 10 miles away from FH but never felt obsessed about going back there, or getting in communication with other Scientologists. I was pretty much free of the Church then.

But, now I am totally free. I am still working for the same company and still married to the same girl. Life has been just wonderful and keeps on getting better.

What happened on the RD? Well, it seemed that I climbed over some energy hump and rolled over to the freer side. That hump was keeping me imprisoned on this side. Now it is keeping me free on the other side.

.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Well, it did something for me, because, since then, I have been pretty much on top of my case, compared to before that RD.

Soon after that RD (with no further handling on my case) I left S.O., and was able to pull myself together within a year. That year I spent in India looking after my father who was suffering from cancer, until he passed away. My companion during that period were the books "Scn 8-8008" and "The Phoenix Lectures."

After that one year, I returned to US. Within a month I got a job and got married. I was living about 10 miles away from FH but never felt obsessed about going back there, or getting in communication with other Scientologists. I was pretty much free of the Church then.

But, now I am totally free. I am still working for the same company and still married to the same girl. Life has been just wonderful and keeps on getting better.

What happened on the RD? Well, it seemed that I climbed over some energy hump and rolled over to the freer side. That hump was keeping me imprisoned on this side. Now it is keeping me free on the other side.

.

Nice one, Vinaire. Good for you.

Is it just as simple as running around a post? Does it have to be clockwise or counterclockwise? I hate not knowing how things work! :)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
1) I dont think DM ever stated that. Unless I missed something. A person CAN go Clear on NED. For those whoe dont, you have the alternate Clear route.

2) that wouldnt suprize me too much. That happened years ago, though, where Grades were put in heavily on all public. I got my grades after OT IV, which is part of why my freeloader bill is so high. Its not a current thing (as of 2004). Objectives were getting heavy attention, as well as Clear state. That was about it.

3) The theory of that is going to be that once the basics, the foundation are in, the other steps go faster. Are you familiar much with Objectives? A major part of them is (unstated that I know of, Alan might know more on this) that they are to train a pc to follow auditing commands and answer questions. Having that aced by the pc makes later levels faster. That is covered somewhere, but not directly on an Objectives ref that I know of.

Alot of times when pcs cannot answer auditing commands, Objectives would be looked into. In most cases, they were found to be quickied. As a C/S, I never noticed doing large amounts of hours on Objectives to be damaging to a case. Other auditing actions, yes. But objectives get you more aware of the environment and get you more into communication.

Its weird. I am anti Scn. But I still can answer technical questions as if I am regging.

this is all new to me. So please bear with me, ok?

I hope this answers your questions, Lulu. Please, if you have others, post them and I will try to answer (anything up to OT Elig I dealt with until 2004).

I don't see you as regging at all. However are we seeing a shadow of decades of exec C/Sing? ( most definitely not an attack)

I find your answers to tech questions very valuable.

On clear, their is natural clear which If I recall you said is no longer
considered valid by COS. As an aside there is a whole forum for those who
are returnees, many past life clears. Seerms they do upper levels with no problems.

Then there is tech to support one can go clear on objectives and also TRs.

Can you recall? Forgot where I read this.

Then objectives as OT processes as a thought.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Would you please tell me exactly what does this Rundown require one to do? Thank you.

Well, there is certain theory behind it about the system of running, but when running, after a certain point you start generating more energy than you are spending, and when you continue to do so, you finally generate enough energy to overcome the energy hump, which the bank has always presented to you.

This is just my take.

.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, there is certain theory behind it about the system of running, but when running, after a certain point you start generating more energy than you are spending, and when you continue to do so, you finally generate enough energy to overcome the energy hump, which the bank has always presented to you.

This is just my take.

.

Is that similar to the "take a walk" process Ron talked about? I once saw a film about Kenyan runners and their tone level was one of pure joy. I also read that the muscles in the leg are the type of muscles that can be exercised without needing to ever stop.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader

Ok. I read that. Yeah. Can't say much on that. Phew. Wow. I dont recall any such thing on tech lines. Though maybe they are pulling it out of their arses now and saying that, just to continue to reverse people down the Bridge. The latest arbirary cancelled.

Although the Clearing Course materials looked awefully interesting to me at the time.

Alot of people didnt want to go Clear on NED because they wanted the Alternate Route.

I couldnt tell you cause I am not a research/techie kinda person. I was a religious robot (LOL!!!). I just followed instructions religiously (no pun intended).

---

But, all that aside, I gotta say - and I didnt say how many up there - I looked at probably at least a thousand pc folders and 80% were not Clear. I wasnt talking about 5 or 10 folders. I spent weeks digging through archives looking at old pc folders of people who had been gone forever. Every one of them was gone through in 04. Probably 50 more times since then. Especially after a tech person gets offloaded or declared. All the folders get gone through AGAIN. With Griffee gone, oh yeah. New evolution, all over. All nighters, etc,etc.

Hope this answers to some degree.

---

Honestly, there is an HCO B and HCO PL covering everything, in both directions. So they could pull out a reference saying 2%, then find another ref later up the road contradicting that. Always about removing arbitraries, eh?

----

Let me know if I can help you with any other questions (technical, of course, or tech administration)
 
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