Do you believe in God?

Karakorum

supressively reasonable
...and if yes, then what sort of God?


me:

1. A God that is all-good, all-powerfull, omnipresent, conscious, personal, perfect but who for some absurd reasons creates disfigured and imperfect entities outside of himself? Nope, I do not believe in this God, in fact I'm certain such a combination of self-contradictory traits is impossible.

2. A god that made jews run around the desert for 40 years and which orders stoning of teenagers that had sex and condones selling daughters into slavery? I'm not sure. I think such a god is possible, but even so it would be a demiurge, godling, a "god" with a lowercase "g". Hardly worth praise, more demonic than saintly.

3. An impersonal ultimate potentiality, the pervasive, infinite, ultimate reality. The gnostic pleroma, hinduistic brahman, or plotinic the one? Yes, I am quite confident that it exists. Of course I have reached this conclusion through contemplative insight, so I do not have any interpersonal evidence. This has nothing to do with my experiences in sicentology or the 8th dynamic. I've reached this conclusion after leaving scientology.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Yes, where 0-50 = no, and 51-100 = yes.

I believe in the spiritual nature of man, where the spirit part continues after the mortal part dies. I believe in a whole panoply, a hierarchy of spiritual beings, including personal "guardian angels" who assist one throughout life, if one is only willing to listen to and (try to) follow the suggestions. Muses* come into this category. These guardian angels have their own guides, and so on up the, er, command chart.

It seems to me that many of these helpful hierarchical spirits are encompassed by a general idea of God, not merely some hyper-tasking Big Cheese at the nominal top of the pyramid.

*Muses. Have you [general reader] ever created some technical or artistic-type work, even writing a careful post on ESMB, and it seems effortless, where the words just seem to flow of their own accord, almost like one is taking dictation (transcribing another's words)?

Paul
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
Do I believe in god? No. Do I think it's possible there is a god, or gods? Yes. We know so little about the universe that almost anything could be. But if there is a god, I don't think I know anything about him (or her/it/them), and I don't think anyone else does either. It's all just speculation. As long as you admit it's speculation it's fine with me. But when you start claiming certainty about god, then I think you are deluded, brainwashed, or just plain full of shit.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
For discussion it's important to define the particular concepts/details of god(s) we are referring to.

Are we talking about general deism or maybe particular god(s) of ancient religions?

I think that many people have initial or on-going fears or depression about denying god(s) and even spirituality.

Here is one song that I think expresses this emotional feeling that can happen for many people:


I don't think that we are dust in the wind but I understand that some people might feel that way.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Do I believe in god? No. Do I think it's possible there is a god, or gods? Yes. We know so little about the universe that almost anything could be. But if there is a god, I don't think I know anything about him (or her/it/them), and I don't think anyone else does either. It's all just speculation. As long as you admit it's speculation it's fine with me. But when you start claiming certainty about god, then I think you are deluded, brainwashed, or just plain full of shit.
My thoughts and concerned are the same as those expressed by @pineapple and which are written way better than I would.

However, I would just add, that I carry a wish that there is a luminous infinite intelligence that we might reunite "with" or "into" after death or somewhere , in another dimension. Sometimes I think God might be the name given to our true loving nature, or the unification of the divine nature of all human beings...or the end of suffering...

Hopefuly we will find or experience what it is and what it feels

;)
 
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TheSneakster

More Skeptical Than You
Greetings, gang.

We had a poster in a facebook group (Friends of LRH) ask this question (in relation so Scientology). My response follows:
Mary, in Scientology, Hubbard has said that belief in a Creator or God is acknowledged as necessary and beneficial for humankind.

The material universe is held to be a shared creation of all the spirits (or souls or thetans) who dwell herein. But where do these spirits ultimately originate ?

Now me, I certainly believe in an ultimate Creator of all spirits (or thetans as we call them). That is my conception of God at this time.

But the experience of God is intensely personal and one must achieve their own personal certainty as to the nature of God and their relationship to him/her/it. It is said that when one has attained a high enough spiritual awareness through Scientology, one will be able to answer any questions about God for themselves.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Hubbard proclaimed that thetans (spiritual beings) became a part of this universe by agreements.

How do we test this proclamation to determine if it is true?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
But the experience of God is intensely personal and one must achieve their own personal certainty as to the nature of God and their relationship to him/her/it. It is said that when one has attained a high enough spiritual awareness through Scientology, one will be able to answer any questions about God for themselves.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
.
If what you claim is true, why do appx 99% of all "high spiritual awareness" Scientologists get declared or blow?

You state "one will be able to answer any questions about God" if they reach the higher levels of Scientology. Okay, name "one" who has that ability.

Don't think of me as an SP. Think of me as someone doing "data evaluation" (i.e. due diligence) using the "analytical mind".

Why do i think you came to promote cult mythology? Why do i think you will not answer these questions?

.



ps: "It is said"? Really? By whom? The only person I know who said that is the NOT-clear, NOT-OT, debunked con man L. Ron Hubbard. What? Somebody ELSE said it?

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Hubbard proclaimed that thetans (spiritual beings) became a part of this universe by agreements.

How do we test this proclamation to determine if it is true?


The test is performed thusly:

1) Donate $600,000 to the non-profit religion of Scientology.
2) Then you will get to test whether it works or not.
3) You will discover it works 100% of the time.
4) Do not ask the 99% of Scientologists who blew because it didn't work. They don't know what they are talking about.
5) If you need to speak to someone, ask a Scn. Straggler (one of the 1-percenters who stay in the cult due to severe com lags).

.
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Hubbard proclaimed that thetans (spiritual beings) became a part of this universe by agreements.

How do we test this proclamation to determine if it is true?
The test is performed thusly:

1) Donate $600,000 to the non-profit religion of Scientology.
2) Then you will get to test whether it works or not.
3) You will discover it works 100% of the time.
4) Do not ask the 99% of Scientologist who blew because it didn't work. They don't know what they are talking about.
5) If you need to speak to someone, ask a Scn. Straggler (one of the 1-percenters who stay in the cult due to com lags)

You forgot to mention the e-meter. :D

The e-meter reads that I had an injury in college football?
Yes. That happened.

The e-meter reads that I had an injury on planet Venus a million years ago while dodging a freight train on that planet?
No. I don't believe that happened.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
.
If what you claim is true, why do appx 99% of all "high spiritual awareness" Scientologists get declared or blow?

.

Good question though
❓

You state "one will be able to answer any questions about" God if they reach the higher levels of Scientology. Okay, name "one" who has that ability.


YOU ???
(With a little help of Pink and Greys???)​
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You forgot to mention the e-meter. :D
LOL

Excellent point!

After donating the $600,000 (and the decades required to go OT), someone needs to put you on an e-meter to verify if you want to attest to OT.

If your needle floats you win a jumbo completion certificate with the letters "O" and "T" on it.

It's quite a bargain, actually, because those two (2) letters are priceless. But the COS has quite generously and magnanimously to sell OT to you at the low-low, deep-deep discount of only $300,000 per letter.

If you complain about this value proposition in any way, they take back those two letters, but get keep the $600,000.

.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Listen Hoaxyboy,

If this guy knew about God and High spiritual states


l-ron-hubbard-motorcycle-243x300.jpg


:D

How an opetating thetan , with a motorcycle like that can't know????

5b1030091ae6621e008b49a4-750-562.jpg


:D
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Yes, where 0-50 = no, and 51-100 = yes.

I believe in the spiritual nature of man, where the spirit part continues after the mortal part dies. I believe in a whole panoply, a hierarchy of spiritual beings, including personal "guardian angels" who assist one throughout life, if one is only willing to listen to and (try to) follow the suggestions. Muses* come into this category. These guardian angels have their own guides, and so on up the, er, command chart.

It seems to me that many of these helpful hierarchical spirits are encompassed by a general idea of God, not merely some hyper-tasking Big Cheese at the nominal top of the pyramid.

*Muses. Have you [general reader] ever created some technical or artistic-type work, even writing a careful post on ESMB, and it seems effortless, where the words just seem to flow of their own accord, almost like one is taking dictation (transcribing another's words)?

Paul

I don't think about it much at all because I have basic assumptions and feelings that I have carried since I was a child which still work for me. Pauls post (above) is the closest to what I feel is true. Whether it is true or not is a different thing entirely but the only alternative that I believe to be realistic is nowhere near as comforting ie being alive one minute and as dead as a doorknob the next, gone ... finished ... no more ... extinguished forever (and starting to smell!) ... last one out the door turns the lights out.

I think I'll stick with my own lovely theory.



:sadangel:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
While I was reading Trubs post, I smelled my arm...(there is nobody to tell me if I smell good or bad)

I guess I am still well alive... But I will ask friends....
(just to make sure)

:oops:
 
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pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
My thoughts and concerned are the same as those expressed by @pineapple and which are written way better than I would.

However, I would just add, that I carry a wish that there is a luminous infinite intelligence that we might reunite "with" or "into" after death or somewhere , in another dimension. Sometimes I thing God might be the name given to our true loving nature, or the unification of the divine nature of all human beings...or the end of suffering...

Hopefuly we will find or experience what it is and what it feels

;)
I've had "the oceanic feeling."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_feeling
 
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