Do you believe in God?

[pineapple]

For discussion it's important to define the particular concepts/details of god(s) we are referring to.

Are we talking about general deism or maybe particular god(s) of ancient religions?

I think that many people have initial or on-going fears or depression about denying god(s) and even spirituality.

Here is one song that I think expresses this emotional feeling that can happen for many people:

I don't think that we are dust in the wind but I understand that some people might feel that way.

Another song expressing the same idea.

 

[Voodoo]

...and if yes, then what sort of God?


me:

1. A God that is all-good, all-powerfull, omnipresent, conscious, personal, perfect but who for some absurd reasons creates disfigured and imperfect entities outside of himself? Nope, I do not believe in this God, in fact I'm certain such a combination of self-contradictory traits is impossible.
I
2. A god that made jews run around the desert for 40 years and which orders stoning of teenagers that had sex and condones selling daughters into slavery? I'm not sure. I think such a god is possible, but even so it would be a demiurge, godling, a "god" with a lowercase "g". Hardly worth praise, more demonic than saintly.

3. An impersonal ultimate potentiality, the pervasive, infinite, ultimate reality. The gnostic pleroma, hinduistic brahman, or plotinic the one? Yes, I am quite confident that it exists. Of course I have reached this conclusion through contemplative insight, so I do not have any interpersonal evidence. This has nothing to do with my experiences in sicentology or the 8th dynamic. I've reached this conclusion after leaving scientology.

I gave up the notion of a 'big thetan in the sky' when I was nine years old.

But, to each his own...

 

[Irayam]

Do I believe in God, in a god?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no...
I have never believed in the theories of the three monotheistic religions of Christianity, Judaism or Islam.
I have a much greater affinity for paganism, animism, even shamanism, without being a practitioner.
As for the divine or spiritual experience, the use of psychedelic substances in my youth has given me much more than Scientology.
As for the survival of the spirit after the death of the body.... Either we will know when the time comes, or we will never know.
I hope to know one day....

Irayam

 

[Dotey OT]

Hello Everyone!! God here. I heard you have a question? One at a time, please, I'm rather busy as you would guess, running everything, arranging everything and so on. This creating is for the birds, believe me! At any rate, ask away, I do have a few minutes. But a heads up, I have a supernova about to go on somewhere else and several civilizations to create and destroy. Where's that damn bong?

Oh you don't believe I'm God, huh? Just you wait.

It actually doesn't matter what you believe, there's only one outcome anyway. We are all bozos on this bus. Spend an appropriate amount of time on this, then have some fun, do some work, count some money, burn some money, love someone, honk at an asshole, listen to music, breathe the air, eat some good food, drink some good drink, laugh with friends, laugh at yourself. Laugh at God.

Some us got hoodwinked onto Cap'n Tubby's Wild Ride! Just another day being human. Beats being a cow.

 

[Bill]

...and if yes, then what sort of God?


me:

1. A God that is all-good, all-powerfull, omnipresent, conscious, personal, perfect but who for some absurd reasons creates disfigured and imperfect entities outside of himself? Nope, I do not believe in this God, in fact I'm certain such a combination of self-contradictory traits is impossible.

2. A god that made jews run around the desert for 40 years and which orders stoning of teenagers that had sex and condones selling daughters into slavery? I'm not sure. I think such a god is possible, but even so it would be a demiurge, godling, a "god" with a lowercase "g". Hardly worth praise, more demonic than saintly.

3. An impersonal ultimate potentiality, the pervasive, infinite, ultimate reality. The gnostic pleroma, hinduistic brahman, or plotinic the one? Yes, I am quite confident that it exists. Of course I have reached this conclusion through contemplative insight, so I do not have any interpersonal evidence. This has nothing to do with my experiences in sicentology or the 8th dynamic. I've reached this conclusion after leaving scientology.

I agree that each person will have their own concept, if they believe at all. There are several things I object to:

• I seriously object to people who claim they speak to and speak for God and will tell you what you must think, what you must do, what you must say because "God told them".
• I disagree with the idea of "God" as an anthropomorphic being, looks and acts just like humans but, you know, powerful.
• I think it's silly that some people think they have to dictate to "God" what to do: "Dear God, take care of Aunt Emma and don't let Grampa Fred ...".
• I disagree with the idea of a "God" who demands constant worship and adoration. i.e.: Heaven is a place where everybody worships at His feet, forever."
• I disagree with the idea that good people are "condemned to hell" just because they don't adhere to a specific dogma.

Is there a God or gods? That is unknowable and unprovable. It is belief.

 

[Operating DB]

I agree that each person will have their own concept, if they believe at all. There are several things I object to:

• I seriously object to people who claim they speak to and speak for God and will tell you what you must think, what you must do, what you must say because "God told them".
• I disagree with the idea of "God" as an anthropomorphic being, looks and acts just like humans but, you know, powerful.
• I think it's silly that some people think they have to dictate to "God" what to do: "Dear God, take care of Aunt Emma and don't let Grampa Fred ...".
• I disagree with the idea of a "God" who demands constant worship and adoration. i.e.: Heaven is a place where everybody worships at His feet, forever."
• I disagree with the idea that good people are "condemned to hell" just because they don't adhere to a specific dogma.

Is there a God or gods? That is unknowable and unprovable. It is belief.

This line "I seriously object to people who claim they speak to and speak for God and will tell you what you must think, what you must do, what you must say because "God told them" brings to mind a song we're rehearsing in choir. It's called "I Ain't Afraid" by Holly Near. Here's the opening set of lyrics:

I ain't afraid of your Yahweh
I ain't afraid of your Allah
I ain't afraid of your Jesus
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your god.
...
The ones who say they know it are the ones who will impose it on you...

Pretty much speaks for me.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Listen Hoaxyboy,

If this guy knew about God and High spiritual states

How an opetating thetan , with a motorcycle like that can't know????

lol

you know i love motorcycles, so maybe i will rejoin Scientology if they form a biker gang.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I agree that each person will have their own concept, if they believe at all. There are several things I object to:

• I seriously object to people who claim they speak to and speak for God and will tell you what you must think, what you must do, what you must say because "God told them".
• I disagree with the idea of "God" as an anthropomorphic being, looks and acts just like humans but, you know, powerful.
• I think it's silly that some people think they have to dictate to "God" what to do: "Dear God, take care of Aunt Emma and don't let Grampa Fred ...".
• I disagree with the idea of a "God" who demands constant worship and adoration. i.e.: Heaven is a place where everybody worships at His feet, forever."
• I disagree with the idea that good people are "condemned to hell" just because they don't adhere to a specific dogma.

Is there a God or gods? That is unknowable and unprovable. It is belief.

God told me to get you banned from ESMB.

Previously, God told me to keep an eye on people who are critical of him--and to report them uplines to him.

God also said i should mention to you that he might consider giving you another chance if you buy a package of his newly released Basic Bibles that have had all the grammatical errors corrected.

.

 

[DagwoodGum]

For what it's worth this wrote itself through my hands decades ago and I could have put it in the muse thread but it represents what my search for god yielded me then. I share it for no particular purpose other than sharing rather than not sharing.

"God got himself/herself blown to smithereens in the Big Bang, as intended.
Each of us is a mostly transparent charred carbon electromagnetic sliver remnant of what was once the whole of God, only now we exist is varying sizes depending on how much of the blast we took directly vs. indirectly.
The large Big Bang beings have retained their abilities sufficiently to empower them as gods, as part and parcel to The Game, again as intended.
Mother always said "Don't play with fire" but one did and became the many who now function as the animators of the multitudinous animations involved in the game.
This is where the "Big Being" or "God" concept comes from as well as the Degraded Being concept where some are so micronized from the direct blast impact that they cannot control much of anything, certainly not a body and now function as quarks, hadrons, baryons and other infinitesimal particles within this universe as that's how far down the rabbit hole's rabbit holes have they fallen and is the extent of their level of awareness in this trap door universe.
At most they might trigger reads on an emeter but are well below being communicated with through most processing as they're largely inexperienced with languages and can only be moved about by energy.
As many are in a deeply traumatized, post concussive state, all processing promising to handle them through communications regarding supposed incidents is a total waste of time and worse in that you are treading water in a living quicksand of souls where you just keep sinking in deeper and deeper.
Unless of course you were to take on the monumental task of running out the full "Big Bang", in all of it's manifestations, starting with yourself before expanding out into the realm of which became "others" which is a much larger matter than can be covered here and now.
I've found that by running an alternating "space cleansing" process of "What would you ridge against" followed by "What would you NOT ridge against" quickly and easily turns on and blows the automaticities relative to the spatial structures of entrapping ridges and blows them and their entity manifestations to smithereens, just like the Big Bang, and allows you to flow cleanly through their realms. Off the meter is all I ever did with that and with far greater results than all of the tedious Scientology processes combined.
Hubbard knew enough of all this when he led you out over your head into the depths of their realm, called em BT's though they are entirely unrelated to the human body other than being trapped in its electromagnetic fields, where you were supposed to drown by design if you spent any time on the new OT levels at all.
Darkened murky beings such as LRH are prone to pulling in a hardened coating of this vastness of dementia as stolen miss-owned energy and sink heavily through the crust to burn in the Earths core upon passing, as he is now. He may find a crevice or an underground volcanic river and arise again in the distant future, but I wouldn't wait for him...
He thwarted multiple generations of would be freedom finders with his booby trapped "Science of knowing how to know" and for that there's no forgiveness to be found. These are souls who will no longer look for nor be ready for any of the big truths necessary for their resurrection and resultant freedom, perhaps this was Hubbard's true intent, you decide
When one raises one's vibrational frequency and thereby lightens one's gravity this micronized mob is automatically blown out and of no residual concern to one attempting to dig oneself out.
Of which the many who have re-found themselves, many choose to position themselves as guides in the afterlife realms and come to you to minister, but only when and with whom they choose.
On what basis and according to what guidelines do they pick and choose?
I can only guess that worthiness as illuminated by your vibrational frequency or your lightness of gravity and if they have a favorable shared history with you. In other words they still have affinity for you from another time and place.
It abhors them to see those they guide become loose from their bodily bondage sink like stones into the burning abyss as they vanish into the earth's mantel (or Hell as you know it) and perhaps you'll remember all of those feelings of falling when you occasionally slipped some of the knots of your bodily bindings as a child and experienced a brief taste of the afterlife, or true exteriorization as you might still call it.
Or not, you decide.
I've never read another account or explanation of how we all came to be from the very beginning other than the vague "In the beginning was the word". What word?

 

[Karakorum]

I gave up the notion of a 'big thetan in the sky' when I was nine years old.

But, to each his own...

Well, since you replied by quoting my previous post, I feel it is proper to clarify my position:

- I do not believe that the ultimate reality is a thetan
- I do not believe any thetans exist, in this sense I tend to fall back on neoplatonic triplicity.
- I do not believe the ultimate reality is in the sky, rather it happens to be the other way around, with the sky not even being a hypostatis

Apologies if I'm being captain obvious here

I agree that each person will have their own concept, if they believe at all. There are several things I object to:

• I seriously object to people who claim they speak to and speak for God and will tell you what you must think, what you must do, what you must say because "God told them".
• I disagree with the idea of "God" as an anthropomorphic being, looks and acts just like humans but, you know, powerful.
• I think it's silly that some people think they have to dictate to "God" what to do: "Dear God, take care of Aunt Emma and don't let Grampa Fred ...".
• I disagree with the idea of a "God" who demands constant worship and adoration. i.e.: Heaven is a place where everybody worships at His feet, forever."
• I disagree with the idea that good people are "condemned to hell" just because they don't adhere to a specific dogma.

I of course agree with all the above.

Is there a God or gods? That is unknowable and unprovable.

I agree with the latter, but not with the former.
I define knowledge as a "justified true belief" (while being aware of the Gettier problem). But interpersonally accessible evidence cannot always be provided for all beliefs, even if said beliefs are true and justified.

 

[lotus]

lol

you know i love motorcycles, so maybe i will rejoin Scientology if they form a biker gang.

Why not founding our biker gang.??
I too own a motorcycle ( a scooter )

I propose it to be named:

Tubs Espees Angels​

We could found the West Usa Chapter and from there on, create a straight up vertical expansion
and make a real planetary change till we move a step further to reach the whole gulluxy

I can mock up a nice cool crest design in my mind

This is a picture of my scooter I enjoy so much;
Sorry but for obvious reasons I cropped my face.

 

[Karakorum]

We could found the West Usa Chapter and from there on, create a straight up vertical expansion
and make a real planetary change till we move a step further to reach the whole gulluxy

I think it is spelled "gullibxy"

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Why not founding our biker gang.??
I too own a motorcycle ( a scooter )

I propose it to be named:

Tubs Espees Angels​

We could found the West Usa Chapter and from there on, create a straight up vertical expansion
and make a real planetary change till we move a step further to reach the whole gulluxy

I can mock up a nice cool crest design in my mind

This is a picture of my scooter I enjoy so much;
Sorry but for obvious reasons I cropped my face.

.

COUNT ME IN!!!
I'M IN!!!
​

Instead of having to give "termination of membership" notice to my current biker gang, perhaps we can MERGE the two (2) outlaw biker gang.

Actually we don't call ourselves an "outlaw" biker gang. For PR purposes, we like to think of ourselves as an OFF-POLICY biker gang.

Oh, I forgot to mention our name. Well, much like the TUB'S ESPEE ANGELS, we have also modeled ourselves after HELL'S ANGELS, but we call ourselves: HEAVEN'S IMPLANTS.

Um....sorry......prepare to cringe. . . . .

(...and, no, this ain't no hoax. We were actually in this delusional, diabolically demented, DB dork-fest)
​

- - - - - - - - - - -​

​

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO BULLETIN OF MAY 11, AD13

HEAVEN

​

Well, I have been to Heaven.​

And I've found that Scientologists have been to Heaven.

And that everybody has evidently been to Heaven.

The Goals Problem Mass implants, which are the apparent basic source of aberration and human travail, which begin with the goal To Forget, were cynically done "in Heaven".

For a long time, people have been cross with me for my lack of co-operation in believing in a Christian Heaven, God and Christ. I have never said I didn't disbelieve in a Big Thetan but there was certainly something very corny about Heaven et al. Now I have to apologize. There was a Heaven. Not too unlike, in cruel betrayal, the heaven of the Assassins in the 12th Century who, like everyone else, dramatized the whole track implants - if a bit more so.

Yes, I've been to Heaven. And so have you. And you have the pattern of its implants in the HCO Bulletin Line Plots. It was complete with gates, angels and plaster saints - and electronic implantation equipment. So there was a Heaven after all - which is why you are on this planet and were condemned never to be free again - until Scientology.

Before you went to Heaven you were not really very bad or very good, but you didn't think you had lived only once and you had a good memory and knew who you were and enjoyed life. Afterwards ---

The symbol of the crucified Christ is very apt indeed. It's the symbol of a thetan betrayed.

DATA​

Additional work and possible corrections need to be done but this is the gist of the matter:​

The implants are electronic in nature and follow the pattern of the G.P.M. The implant station existed on the order of magnitude of 43,000,000,000,000 years ago. (The dates may be part of the implants but do not appear so at this stage. However, a possibility of correction of dates is reserved).

Some have been through it once, some more than once.

The first time I arrived and the moment of the implant To Forget was dated at 43,891,832,611,177 years, 344 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes and 40 seconds from 10:02½ PM Daylight Greenwich Time May 9, 1963. The second series was dated to the moment of the implant To Forget as 42,681,459,477,315 years, 132 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 15 seconds from 11:02½ PM Daylight Greenwich Time May 9, 1963.
There are no earlier such implants. There are no later such implants.

I evidentally have a goal of my own at 305 Trillion (U.S.) years and an actual GPM, all of which pulled into this 43 Trillion year implant. . . .

----linked HCOB here----​

​

 

[ILove2Lurk]

. . .
I believe wholeheartedly . . .

that people have been asking each other "Do you believe in God?"
for the past four thousand years or more. It's part of the immutable
human condition. I've read about this in many history books.

Turns on in your youth when you're becoming curious about everything
in the world. Then the question subsides a bit in one's middle years
when you're more worried about raising kids and mortgages. Then when
you've got too much time on your hands during your "golden years," the
question seems to resurface. Or so I've observed.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

. . .
I believe wholeheartedly . . .

that people have been asking each other "Do you believe in God?"
for the past four thousand years or more. It's part of the immutable
human condition. I've read about this in many history books.

Turns on in your youth when you're becoming curious about everything
in the world. Then the question subsides a bit in one's middle years
when you're more worried about raising kids and mortgages. Then when
you've got too much time on your hands during your "golden years," the
question seems to resurface. Or so I've observed.

As I mentioned on the stupid thread recently, the first thing I saw when as a tiny-teen I entered my very first Scientology mission--was a full-sized POSTER of the Grim Reaper with the headline: "ABANDON YOUR DIFFICULT SEARCH - - THE ANSWERS HAVE ALL BEEN FOUND!"

So, I've got that goin' for me.


ps: The reg also r-factored me: "...on your shedding-the-encubrance-bed, you will receive total knowingness".

.​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

I often wondered. . .

Why do some people who know nothing more than anyone else think they have the answer to WHO/WHAT IS GOD?

I have found countless answers to that but the best one so far is: Because any answer is better than no answer. Or, so it seems. . .

Finding any explanation for life to reduce the chaos of the unknowable and grim prospect of dying and not knowing WTF happens after that--it is a pleasant respite to find any explanation even if its a placeholder.

It reminds me of Scientologists who get the full download of "stable datums" from "Source" and have "big wins" on having "total knowingness". They have effectively (for the moment) favorably changed the DOUBT/CERTAINTY ratio in their favor. Then, nobody tells them that its all a hoax and they get really industrious and fanatical about it. Hubbard then installs another BIG LIE ("Scientology is a religion!!!") and that triggers the cult members to go all religious-fanatic about "clearing the planet" and "salvaging this sector" of the universe.

That's how cult zombies are CULTivated.

It's a human characteristic (to seek certainty over chaos) and that particular good trait is then GAMED & GIMMICKED to death by religious/cult leaders to drain the marks of all the time and money they can donate.

Honestly, in the entire history of mankind, did ANYONE EVER really find out ANYTHING about "God"?

If they did, nobody noticed.

Because the world is essentially a sleazy carnival replete with rigged games and barkers who entice marks into freaky paranormal SIDE SHOWS with lurid posters and impossible claims. That's religion. That's cults.

So, yeah---okay. You can now abandon your difficult search because I have found all the answers. LOL

..

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I gave up the notion of a 'big thetan in the sky' when I was nine years old. But, to each his own...
.

Okay. . .

How do you feel about the notion of a "small DB on this planet"?

.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

As I mentioned on the stupid thread recently, the first thing I saw when as a tiny-teen I entered my very first Scientology mission

I have found countless answers to that but the best one so far is: Because any answer is better than no answer. Or, so it seems.

I believe I have a copy of the book you purchased and
that "hooked" you. Does this look like it? Seems to have
the same quote you mentioned on the dust jacket.

​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I believe I have a copy of the book you purchased and
that "hooked" you. Does this look like it? Seems to have
the same quote you mentioned on the dust jacket.

View attachment 15336

​

...................................................................................................................................................lol​

lol lol lol lol lol lol
lol lol lol lol lol lol
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lol lol lol lol lol lol
lol lol lol lol lol lol
lol lol lol lol lol lol



Sorry, I laughed so hard I fell I fell out of my assigned seating.

.​

 

[lotus]

You fell out of your assigned cloud????