Do you still believe in your own past lives?

[bobthesp]

What about OT 9 and beyond?

It seams to me that of all the years gone by and all the SO
members that have left c of s that someone would have seen
these further OT levels and at least come out and say that
they DO exist. Since I have never heard of this I have to assume
that they do not exist.

 

[Panda Termint]

I believe that they exist (they're actually old OT8 materials) but not in a deliverable form that would enable the CofS to maintain control of the recipients.

That's probably what they're trying to solve before releasing an acceptable version of OTIX.

"How ya gonna keep 'em
Down on the farm ?
After they've seen Paree-eee!"

 

[Rae]

Thanks very much Rae. Haven't seen these details posted before.

So....

1. In the OT III materials, in Hubbard's handwriting, it says the EP of the level is no BTs left. An absolute. The (CofS) OT III graduate learns it's a lie, sooner or later, if he doesn't already know. Over the next year or ten he gets the idea that he will FINALLY get rid of all the BTs when he attests to New OT VII after much expense and effort. Except he doesn't even get the satisfaction of attesting to that! He attests to what he should have attested to at OT III - no more BTs that can be found right now. Amazing.

2. This one is unbelievable, that the solo auditor on OT VIII gets sent to cramming if more than one or two past-life identities is considered to be real! How do people sit still for this freaking eval and inval?!! What theoretical basis is given for this? The next one I can understand the basis for, but not this.

3. One's real track is as described by Hubbard, irrespective of whether one has recalled such or not. It makes sense that one isn't allowed to check - I imagine that at one time people did and got really upset when they couldn't find any Hubbard incidents in their own past lives. On OT III one doesn't have to run those incidents either, not in a meaningful sense, so it doesn't matter on III if they don't match up to anyone's actual track.

Wow. Just goes to show the truth of that famous line, at least with regard to the CofS: No matter what your view of Scientology, it's far worse than you think.

Paul

Paul..just to clarify..it may not be just 1 or 2 "yeses"..could be several..but the bottom line is most definitley that you "should" be coming up with "nos" and if you do come up with too many "yeses" than off you go to correction.

 

[Spirited]

Originally OT VIII and IX were to be released as a package with IX done immediately upon completion of VIII.

My intuition is that it's actually one Level broken it into 2 parts so that they'd have something to sell.
The data that was culled from VIII and moved to IX would have resolved any VIII confusions completely. The CofS sacrificed a lot of their OT public for the sake of marketing (added income and contribution) and having a carrot to dangle to keep OTs in line.

This is just my opinion.

Wow! Per what Rae has posted regarding the OT levels, which I thank you for Rae as it gave me a total understanding of the actual route, then what you say Panda makes total sense…….on one hand, however, on the other, if you are remotely right then that strategy implemented by Int Management for the sake of marketing etc, would be totally dumb on their part.

I didn't get as far as doing the OT levels myself but It seems obvious per a lot of comments and stories by the guys that did that have posted on this board and across the net, that the general gist of the “levels” is that the high level OTs in general are not really a thriving good example of what is actually promised by LRH per their own admission regarding the actual levels themselves, and not gotten what your money is supposed to buy in the way of spiritual freedom and OT abilities. ….not to mention that OTs are leaving as a result which would hinder GI big time.

Would it not make better sense that if OT9 was delivered straight after 8 and the OTs were actual thriving products of that, then people would be scrambling to get up the bridge to obtain what the OT’s have obtained…. which In turn would have to boost contribution and GI to new levels of screaming abundance. You would have people flooding the orgs and perhaps have a waiting list to get there!!
There is no better marketing than word of mouth is there?
And if OT9 delivered then it wouldn’t be hard to keep OTs “in line” because of the promise of more good stuff to come with the rest of the releases?

Which brings me to another point I guess, that.. is it simply a case of the release of 9 would be a confirmation of more of the “bridge to nowhere” per Ferals analogy? leading to a mass exit and meltdown of the orgs in short order.
Hmmmmm, that would mean that OT9 and X can never be released? Gosh! The mind boggles.

Per the heading of this thread…Do I believe in my past lives? I’m so Not sure anymore but for me If we have had past lives then I breathe a sigh of relief but they are that, in the past and I now I am more interested and excited about the prospect of perhaps having future ones as this one has been a hell of a ride good and bad but I love it!!!

 

[AnonyMary]

OT VIII EP

and, by the way, what you attest to at the examiner on OTVlll is something to the effect that "now I know who I was/am not and am ready to find out who I am"..something like that. In my opinion, it is totally dangerous to anyone to just sit for the next upteenth years waiting on finding this out and C/Sed for other B/S actions that bring you no nearer the "truth"(if you're still in the "Scio program") and judging from all my OTVlll friends that are constantly going "for review", getting sick, dying, etc..it's totally criminal.

It is the making of something into nothing. Pure Hubbard megalomania

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "Michael Pattinson" <[email protected]>
Date: 20 Aug 2006 12:23:29 -0700
Local: Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:23 pm
Subject: New OT8 E.P "Now I know who I am not and I am interested in finding out who I am"

This E.P was forced out of me (confirmed by video) and into the public
record by Scientology attorney Samuel Rosen, in a formal deposition.

I guess it might possibly be Scientology's foremost confidential data,
apart from where the money goes, and who controls it?


MP.
----------------------------------

Best wishes to you and all OT VIII's who have survived this mental torture.

 

[Rae]

[Subject: New OT8 E.P "Now I know who I am not and I am interested in finding out who I am"

This E.P was forced out of me (confirmed by video) and into the public
record by Scientology attorney Samuel Rosen, in a formal deposition.

I guess it might possibly be Scientology's foremost confidential data,
apart from where the money goes, and who controls it?


MP.
----------------------------------

Best wishes to you and all OT VIII's who have survived this mental torture.[/QUOTE]

Yup..that's it..I couldn't remember the exact phrasing.. although I'm mystified about this coming from MP as I thought he had done the older version of OTVlll from the 90s. wow..maybe it was the same EP with totally different OTVlll material! How could you just leave someone in this state..as anyone knows..once a "thetan" is interested in something...it's hard to stop them from wanting it NOW. It's the interest that pulls him along..which is probably why they aren't releasing the other OT levels..but it's backfiring big time.

 

[AnonyMary]

Roland asks "Do you still believe in your own past lives?"

I expect that if you are an ex-scientologist then when you were in you "remembered" all sorts of past lives. Now that you have left for a while then do you believe they are real any more? I have concluded that my own past life memories are not real because they do not contain anything I could not have read in a book or watched on a cinema or TV screen. If you had really lived before then you would have remembered the card games and the decks you played or board games and the pieces and rules of the game and they would be something that stands out as different from what you know on planet Earth. But there is nothing except what you already knew or read or the Red Devil and Green Dragon car racing that Hubbard fed into you.

As for me,

Terrific question Roland. It's very interesting to read all the replies to this.

As the late Jim Beebe once wrote on ARS:

The cult not only believes in past lives but programms you to believe that you have lived millions of past lives.

If you cant' remember any past lives in scientology's quack counseling then
something is wrong with you and they have special rudowns to remedy this. Very expensive rundowns, I might add.

Here are some questions from L. Ron Hubbard's "Whole Track Sec. Check" Whole Track means past lives and with this rundown you get to recall all the horrible things that you have done in those millions of past lives.

Have you ever enslaved a population?
Have you ever implanted anyone?
Have you ever sacked a city?
Have you ever annilated a population?
Have you ever stolen a body from another being?
Have you ever forced beings into unwanted bodies?
Did you come to earth for evil purposes?

And so on ad nauseum for seven long pages of demented questions like the above.

Everyone should read the secret "whole Track Sec. Check" just to see how sick and perverted L. Ron Hubbard really was.

A good read is Hubbard's "Have you lived before this life" Hubbard describes
some of his lives on other planets. Truly bizarre.

JImDBB ----------------

I don't believe anymore that I actually lived any of those past lives I'd once believed in, that I'd lived before.

PC's are indoctrinated on early on. It now seems to me to be a product of Hubbard's madness. The common 'that's what came up' in sesson response to it made it all ok and real because it had to be real or one was a no case gain or List 1 Rockslammer.

For the most part, I think auditing coherces one into believing. The PC is at effect of the auditor and the sesson & patter itself at all times and the PC knows it. It's easy to give tactic consent when you are a scientologist.

 

[Zinjifar]

Jim was one of the as yet unsung heroes. He was one of the early targets of OSA back when OSA was feeling chipper and one of the founders of the Cult Awareness Network, before CAN was destroyed utterly and taken over by the 'Church' of Scientology.

He's missed.

Zinj

 

[scooter]

[Subject: New OT8 E.P "Now I know who I am not and I am interested in finding out who I am"

This E.P was forced out of me (confirmed by video) and into the public
record by Scientology attorney Samuel Rosen, in a formal deposition.

I guess it might possibly be Scientology's foremost confidential data,
apart from where the money goes, and who controls it?


MP.
----------------------------------

Best wishes to you and all OT VIII's who have survived this mental torture.

Yup..that's it..I couldn't remember the exact phrasing.. although I'm mystified about this coming from MP as I thought he had done the older version of OTVlll from the 90s. wow..maybe it was the same EP with totally different OTVlll material! How could you just leave someone in this state..as anyone knows..once a "thetan" is interested in something...it's hard to stop them from wanting it NOW. It's the interest that pulls him along..which is probably why they aren't releasing the other OT levels..but it's backfiring big time.[/QUOTE]

Maybe just maybe we have this paranoid old man and his ruthless (but slightly dumb) young prodigee who both recoil at the thought of anyone getting better than them so they set it up so that anyone who does get "up the levels" is crippled by them, but unable to express it because then they'd need correction and not have status anymore.

A new version of "The Emporer's New Clothes"

DM's been off the level 15 years - I'm sure he doesn't want anyone doing better than him

I find it hard to believe that this violation of the actual workable bits of Tech as comandeered by Hubbard is so blatantly violated in VII and VIII "accidentaly or through oversight."

 

[byte301]

To answer the original question; I don't even believe in THIS lifetime.

 

[Zinjifar]

To answer the original question; I don't even believe in THIS lifetime.

Now, *that's* buddhist

Zinj

 

[programmer_guy]

The "dub-in" idea is a cop out for what I am talking about.

When a few contemporary people (as I have said before) claim to have been the same person in a past life (after going "earlier similar" and then F/N with VGIs AND passing the examiner in Qual) something is amiss. After all that, saying that it is "dub-in" is incorrect.

 

[michaelangelo]

To answer the original question; I don't even believe in THIS lifetime.

So what are you doing here then?.

 

[uniquemand]

The "dub-in" idea is a cop out for what I am talking about.

When a few contemporary people (as I have said before) claim to have been the same person in a past life (after going "earlier similar" and then F/N with VGIs AND passing the examiner in Qual) something is amiss. After all that, saying that it is "dub-in" is incorrect.

Could be they all copied the memories of another individual. Could be they all fantasized about being the other individual. Misownership, IMO. Spot it, note it, move along to what is bothering THEM, NOW, rather than someone else, some other time.

 

[mickturate]

thought we'd nailed this???

Read Jung, collective unconscious & of course:

OT8: you mocked up your own past lives

y'need/want moar?

 

[chicago22]

past life

I believe in past lives. I think I was a seagull for quite some time and this is my first human body in a long time. Does not make sense that we are so advanced and have not had past lives. I too telepath with Mars Compound and have been told about past lives. I would go on with Mars Compound but that would be another post.

 

[michaelangelo]

I believe in past lives. I think I was a seagull for quite some time and this is my first human body in a long time. Does not make sense that we are so advanced and have not had past lives. I too telepath with Mars Compound and have been told about past lives. I would go on with Mars Compound but that would be another post.

Yeah right!

Why don't you contact the nearest Church of Scientology?. They need people like you.

 

[byte301]

So what are you doing here then?.

Hanging out with all my imaginary friends. Got any plans for tomorrow?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The "dub-in" idea is a cop out for what I am talking about.

When a few contemporary people (as I have said before) claim to have been the same person in a past life (after going "earlier similar" and then F/N with VGIs AND passing the examiner in Qual) something is amiss. After all that, saying that it is "dub-in" is incorrect.

F/N VGIs indicates "charge off". It is not an indicator of "factual accuracy". Getting the "force" & "postulate" of an "incident" is typically sufficient to produce the VGIs as well as the meter F/N. That does not equate to "pc has the ""facts"" correct". It does indicate that what the pc is looking at is sufficiently similar to an actual source of "charge" as to cause a reduction in the adverse impact on the pc.

Ascertaining the "Truth of Facts" is straying into realms of significance which is not for an auditor to determine. Part of why it is necessary to avoid evaluating for the pc. What the "facts" are is irrelevant. Getting the pc to a better state is the goal of auditing.

During my lower bridge auditing I had a few incidents come up more than once. Each time the incident was handled to f/n vgi's and I finished that session with a different perspective on the particular "chain of events" of that incident.

My considerations about the incidents clearly changed as my auditing progressed. Eventually I had completely different perspectives about those incidents from my original ones.

Auditing progressively alters awareness. If a pc knew what it was to begin with it likely wouldn't be problematic to the point of coming up in a session.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Alanzo]

F/N VGIs indicates "charge off". It is not an indicator of "factual accuracy". Getting the "force" & "postulate" of an "incident" is typically sufficient to produce the VGIs as well as the meter F/N. That does not equate to "pc has the ""facts"" correct". It does indicate that what the pc is looking at is sufficiently similar to an actual source of "charge" as to cause a reduction in the adverse impact on the pc.

Ascertaining the "Truth of Facts" is straying into realms of significance which is not for an auditor to determine. Part of why it is necessary to avoid evaluating for the pc. What the "facts" are is irrelevant. Getting the pc to a better state is the goal of auditing.

During my lower bridge auditing I had a few incidents come up more than once. Each time the incident was handled to f/n vgi's and I finished that session with a different perspective on the particular "chain of events" of that incident.

My considerations about the incidents clearly changed as my auditing progressed. Eventually I had completely different perspectives about those incidents from my original ones.

Auditing progressively alters awareness. If a pc knew what it was to begin with it likely wouldn't be problematic to the point of coming up in a session.


Mark A. Baker

The above shows very powerfully why Scientology leads to delusion, not truth.