Does anyone here believe that L. Ron Hubbard was sane?

Once again I ran across the clip of the cult's official announcement of Hubbard's death after they realized they could not longer pretend he was still alive, and decided to watch it again

I found it rather odd how strongly Norman Starkey tries to emphasize Hubbard was of sound mind.

Just the fact that he would feel the need to mention it leads me to believe that anyone who recently came in contact with Hubbard knew he was nuttier that grandma's fruit cake,

but the fact that he feels the need to so strongly emphasize it pretty much confirms it.

Now back to my question;

Every now and then I'll read someone posting along the lines of ...

"Sure Hubbard was a 'flawed' individual but you shouldn't discount his entire body of work because of that, plenty of eccentric people made great discoveries"

Just to be clear , I'm not referring to Hubbard being 'eccentric', I'm referring to him being Batshit Crazy.

I'm curious does anyone here actually believe Hubbard was sane and not Batshit Crazy?

If so, please explain how you can possibly believe the man giving this lecture is playing with a full deck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hB7KJYIBwc

If I had the opportunity to listen to this lecture upon my introduction to Scientology, my interest in the value of Scientology would have lasted roughly five minutes, tops.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Nope. Not in any way ever was he sane. L. Ron Hubbard was a narcissistic sociopath, a conman and a being for whom the truth really was relative to his own universe, in which we were all pieces. He was the only playa.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
Once again I ran across the clip of the cult's official announcement of Hubbard's death after they realized they could not longer pretend he was still alive, and decided to watch it again

I found it rather odd how strongly Norman Starkey tries to emphasize Hubbard was of sound mind.

Just the fact that he would feel the need to mention it leads me to believe that anyone who recently came in contact with Hubbard knew he was nuttier that grandma's fruit cake,

but the fact that he feels the need to so strongly emphasize it pretty much confirms it.

Now back to my question;

Every now and then I'll read someone posting along the lines of ...

"Sure Hubbard was a 'flawed' individual but you shouldn't discount his entire body of work because of that, plenty of eccentric people made great discoveries"

Just to be clear , I'm not referring to Hubbard being 'eccentric', I'm referring to him being Batshit Crazy.

I'm curious does anyone here actually believe Hubbard was sane and not Batshit Crazy?

If so, please explain how you can possibly believe the man giving this lecture is playing with a full deck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hB7KJYIBwc

If I had the opportunity to listen to this lecture upon my introduction to Scientology, my interest in the value of Scientology would have lasted roughly five minutes, tops.
This question is kinda stale for this board. I don't get the point? Just a random bump? On second thought, I just "keyed in" my utter exhaustion that is called Scientology.
 
This question is kinda stale for this board. I don't get the point? Just a random bump? On second thought, I just "keyed in" my utter exhaustion that is called Scientology.
What I find rather stale is blaming Miscavige for everything that is wrong with Hubbard's Mind fuck, but that doesn't stop anyone from posting about it, does it?

I'm just trying to find out if anyone here truly believes Hubbard was sane, and what would lead them to believe that.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Everything about that sorry ass excuse for a man, who wasn't even man enough to pay his own child's support LINK, is a character study in a clever-boy type of mind, who himself manifested the characteristics of paranoid schizophrenia, including projection of all his faults upon those around him, including always attack never defend..including extortion and blackmail, including the calculated acting, manipulation, and obsessive control, lying and excuses, and abject paranoia that everyone was out to destroy them....

"[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific theories... and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with their sect.... The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard."

--Judge Breckenridge, Los Angeles Superior Court

whathubbardwasthinking.jpg
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Based on results and the statistics of Scientology - I would vote emphatically, undeniably, unequivocally and with total certainty -
NO - Hubbard was not sane! He was very insane - how insane was Hubbard? I think you look at his ability to con and deceive others! Many of the greatest criminals and dictators that have unfortunately graced our planet have a very clever mind - but the results of their thinking is total smash!! Hubbard did a total smash to every one in including himself!! He removed himself from society by hiding in a trailer the last 15 years of his life lying to everyone including himself! He did admit he was a total failure so he had that going for him...other than that - his life was more of a liability to mankind than an asset - I do wish he had never been born and there is no one I have ever known that I feel that way about. If he were here - I would slap the shit out of him!!
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
What I find rather stale is blaming Miscavige for everything that is wrong with Hubbard's Mind fuck, but that doesn't stop anyone from posting about it, does it?

I'm just trying to find out if anyone here truly believes Hubbard was sane, and what would lead them to believe that.

You know, that does get frequently alleged about non CofS Scientologists and it's only true of some. There are a LOT of people even in the independent Scn scene who are quite willing to admit that Hubbard set the stage, caused the problems, did all kinds of shit.

Now my personal take on this is that Hubbard set the stage for the current situation. He wrote the abusive PLs, oversaw the RPF and RPF's RPF creation, ordered overboarding, high prices, fair gaming of critics, freeloader debts, etc. I just think that DM's even worse. I think DM took a very bad situation and a bad cult and made it much worse than it already was.
 

Teanntás

Silver Meritorious Patron
You know, that does get frequently alleged about non CofS Scientologists and it's only true of some. There are a LOT of people even in the independent Scn scene who are quite willing to admit that Hubbard set the stage, caused the problems, did all kinds of shit.

Now my personal take on this is that Hubbard set the stage for the current situation. He wrote the abusive PLs, oversaw the RPF and RPF's RPF creation, ordered overboarding, high prices, fair gaming of critics, freeloader debts, etc. I just think that DM's even worse. I think DM took a very bad situation and a bad cult and made it much worse than it already was.

Question - are the orgs in general crazier now under Miss Cabbage than when Hubbard was running the show? Is he a more omni-present sinister force than Hubbard was?
 
You know, that does get frequently alleged about non CofS Scientologists and it's only true of some. There are a LOT of people even in the independent Scn scene who are quite willing to admit that Hubbard set the stage, caused the problems, did all kinds of shit.

Now my personal take on this is that Hubbard set the stage for the current situation. He wrote the abusive PLs, oversaw the RPF and RPF's RPF creation, ordered overboarding, high prices, fair gaming of critics, freeloader debts, etc. I just think that DM's even worse. I think DM took a very bad situation and a bad cult and made it much worse than it already was.

I think Miscavige just ended up being the random Ronbot who happened to be the one ruthless enough to take Hubbard's place. If it wasn't him, it would have been another random Ronbot running the dysfunctional show right now and taking all of the blame for Hubbard's handy work. I find Miscaviage to be inconsequential, if he cashed out tomorrow and left for a Caribbean Island to retire, the abuses would continue unabated just as if he never existed.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Question - are the orgs in general crazier now under Miss Cabbage than when Hubbard was running the show? Is he a more omni-present sinister force than Hubbard was?

Actually DM has insured that Lron remains as the omnipresent force. Unless you're in the Hole of course. I think it is crazier now because only the die hards are left. It's harder to avoid the news of Scn. Its everywhere. Only the most deluded can keep making excuses.
 
Actually DM has insured that Lron remains as the omnipresent force. Unless you're in the Hole of course. I think it is crazier now because only the die hards are left. It's harder to avoid the news of Scn. Its everywhere. Only the most deluded can keep making excuses.

I absolutely agree that it's crazier now, with all the information that is freely available about the true nature of Scientology, you have to be a total fucking moron to want anything to do with it.

Back when Hubbard was running the show, it was almost impossible to get any information on Scientology outside of what the cult itself wanted you to see.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think Miscavige just ended up being the random Ronbot who happened to be the one ruthless enough to take Hubbard's place. If it wasn't him, it would have been another random Ronbot running the dysfunctional show right now and taking all of the blame for Hubbard's handy work. I find Miscaviage to be inconsequential, if he cashed out tomorrow and left for a Caribbean Island to retire, the abuses would continue unabated just as if he never existed.

I used to agree, but ten years after, I now disagree, consider the following

Paranoid schizophrenics tend to see huge meaning in otherwise insignificant things. A raised eyebrow will have incredible meaning and ruin their day.
That being said...
It is not debatable that Hubbard took magic seriously.. seriously enough to have been engaged in one of only two historically mentioned efforts to conjure up a "Moonchild" - the other was one of Hitler's pals, who was also a master of hypnosis and in magic there is a subject called numerology..

Unpublished research by friends of Lermanet indicates that the Hubbard residence at Gold base and the geographic location and altitude above sea level appear to have chosen using Kabbalistic magic numerology. So I know that control freak Hubbard knew numerology....

Which brings us to the incorporation date, the date it was founded, and which also happens to be the date used for the ending of its physical year...for the corporation that actually owns $cientology... CST, April 30th which also happens to be a sacred date in renaissance magic called Walpurgis Night (Walpurgisnacht or Witches night) or Beltane Festival - a Spring Fertility Festival, which is the 2nd holiest day in Satanism...


[video=youtube;FF6LQT3SikY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6LQT3SikY[/video]

It is also the date that Hitler and Eva chose to commit suicide in 1945
It is the date that The Church of Satan was incorporated in 1966

now, note this well > The holiest day in Satanism is your own birthday.

AND best of all:

David Miscavige's Birthday is April 30th.

My co-worker in the FBO Office, Pat Broeker didn't stand a chance, as I believe Hubbard brought the asthmatic dwarf up through the ranks because Hubbard knew witchcraft...and because he knew his birthday and all because he was a paranoid schizophrenic, so all these things have the most intense significance.

Ron DeWolfe, L Ron's Son in the Penthouse Interview said: "I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, so you don't see it."

"In intelligence work there are no chance happenings"

For further creepy reading check out this old page on Lermanet and check out this discussion about a branch of The Church of Satan called The Church of Set founded by ex U.S. Army Lt. Col. Michael Aquino (his military, psychological warfare roots seem to be missing from Wiki) LINK

PS: $cientology is worse than you thought?
 
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