Does anyone here believe that L. Ron Hubbard was sane?

I always hated listening to his tapes while I was on course. He used to go on and on and on and go all around the houses talking about this and that.

I used to feel like shouting FER CHRISSAKE GET TO THE POINT! Of course, there never was one. :no:

fukker was a walking yak festival
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Sane

What is the definition of sanity ?

Once again I ran across the clip of the cult's official announcement of Hubbard's death after they realized they could not longer pretend he was still alive, and decided to watch it again

I found it rather odd how strongly Norman Starkey tries to emphasize Hubbard was of sound mind.

Just the fact that he would feel the need to mention it leads me to believe that anyone who recently came in contact with Hubbard knew he was nuttier that grandma's fruit cake,

but the fact that he feels the need to so strongly emphasize it pretty much confirms it.

Now back to my question;

Every now and then I'll read someone posting along the lines of ...

"Sure Hubbard was a 'flawed' individual but you shouldn't discount his entire body of work because of that, plenty of eccentric people made great discoveries"

Just to be clear , I'm not referring to Hubbard being 'eccentric', I'm referring to him being Batshit Crazy.

I'm curious does anyone here actually believe Hubbard was sane and not Batshit Crazy?

If so, please explain how you can possibly believe the man giving this lecture is playing with a full deck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hB7KJYIBwc

If I had the opportunity to listen to this lecture upon my introduction to Scientology, my interest in the value of Scientology would have lasted roughly five minutes, tops.
 

suncat

New Member
...If he was indeed a WW2 veteran that was unable to walk, and healed himself, it is fair to estimate some permanent damages he never got rid of. It is in fact fair to believe the sufferings of the war made him crazy enough to try to "save the world", ...

Sorry, after watching the court hearings of L Ron Hubbards son, from 1982, I would like to correct myself, as Mr Dewolf here testifies under oath that his father was in the navy, but never wounded. (search Ron Dewolf on youtube). This author is anything but trustworthy and 99% of what he ever wrote are lies, per his son, who was with him from 1950-1959. There was no research for Dianetics, just written from top of the head full of lies.
 
I kind of liked the guy.

I thought he was eccentric in a cool sort of way.

And I'm not just saying this because it is April fool's Day.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
I kind of liked the guy.

I thought he was eccentric in a cool sort of way.

And I'm not just saying this because it is April fool's Day.

The Anabaptist Jacques
Sure there are aspects of Hubbard with could be considered eccentric or even charming for that matter, but they are so overshadowed by his creepiness and douchebaggery, that you really have to look hard to find them.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
If he was just out there, belief wise, that'd have been one thing. But the abuse of other people- for me, that's the sticking point.
 
What I always keep in mind is that at one time I respected and liked the guy.

The way I see it is that because I now see that his technology is harmful doesn't mean I should dislike the guy.

I have always loved fried chicken. I was a follower of Colonel Sanders way back when he was just a private.

I know that fried chicken is harmful for me (not to mention the chicken).

But I'm not going to say that I do not like fried chicken (or what I know of Colonel Sanders).

It is quite humbling for me to remember that I was once an instrument and supported wholheartedly an activity and organization that I know see as harmful.

Remembering that keeps me in my place.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
What I always keep in mind is that at one time I respected and liked the guy.

The way I see it is that because I now see that his technology is harmful doesn't mean I should dislike the guy.

I have always loved fried chicken. I was a follower of Colonel Sanders way back when he was just a private.

I know that fried chicken is harmful for me (not to mention the chicken).

But I'm not going to say that I do not like fried chicken (or what I know of Colonel Sanders).

It is quite humbling for me to remember that I was once an instrument and supported wholheartedly an activity and organization that I know see as harmful.

Remembering that keeps me in my place.

The Anabaptist Jacques
You are comparing apples to oranges, Colonel Sanders wasn't lacing the chicken he sold with rat poison, and then telling his customers the only reason they are getting sick is because they are not eating it properly.
 
You are comparing apples to oranges, Colonel Sanders wasn't lacing the chicken he sold with rat poison, and then telling his customers the only reason they are getting sick is because they are not eating it properly.

It wasn't a comparison, it was an analogy, which is to say that I wasn't comparing the two guys, I was comparing my changing or not changing attitude about people.

I've seen people fall so much in love with each other, get married, and then after a few years hate each others guts.

All I know about Hubbard is my experiences. Based on that, I liked the guy.

I believe now that Scientology is a destructive thing.

But I don't let what a person does change my feelings toward the person.

It may change my judgment of that person, but not whether or not I like the person.

And I sure as hell am not going to base my feeling about a person on what other people think.

The upside to all this is that it teaches me that I shouldn't assume what a person says is true simply because I like the person, and reversely, not assume what a person says is untrue simply because I don't like him.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
But I don't let what a person does change my feelings toward the person.

It may change my judgment of that person, but not whether or not I like the person.

So you want to say that you feel a strong sympathy for pathological lying sociopaths ?:

Here is a 1967 interview with the guy you like so much:

[video=youtube;L_w-YWwC1lI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI[/video]

I hope you didn´t miss the lies about his second wife at 13:10.....

Everybody can recognize that he is lying, because he is repeating the question to gain more time.

I wish you the best, that Hubbard will be the only sociopath in your life that you "like".
 
So you want to say that you feel a strong sympathy for pathological lying sociopaths ?:

Here is a 1967 interview with the guy you like so much:

[video=youtube;L_w-YWwC1lI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI[/video]

I hope you didn´t miss the lies about his second wife at 13:10.....

Everybody can recognize that he is lying, because he is repeating the question to gain more time.

I wish you the best, that Hubbard will be the only sociopath in your life that you "like".

Who said anything about sympathy?

I don't know you but if you expect me to like or dislike a person or change my mind about a person because you believe I should---isn't that what Hubbard did?

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Who said anything about sympathy?

I don't know you but if you expect me to like or dislike a person or change my mind about a person because you believe I should---isn't that what Hubbard did?

The Anabaptist Jacques
I completely understand what you are saying, it is just difficult for me to separate the person from his actions, or in Hubbard's case the mythology of the person and his actions.

I'm a huge college football fan and I can no longer look at Jerry Sandusky as anything other than a serial child molester anymore than I can look at Hubbard as anything other than abusive con man, even though I know Jerry Sandusky was once a very talented college football defensive coordinator and Hubbard was once a science fiction writer. Both men are evil predators who destroyed people's lives and shouldn't be glorified by being label as eccentric or odd.
 
I completely understand what you are saying, it is just difficult for me to separate the person from his actions, or in Hubbard's case the mythology of the person and his actions.

I'm a huge college football fan and I can no longer look at Jerry Sandusky as anything other than a serial child molester anymore than I can look at Hubbard as anything other than abusive con man, even though I know Jerry Sandusky was once a very talented college football defensive coordinator and Hubbard was once a science fiction writer. Both men are evil predators who destroyed people's lives and shouldn't be glorified by being label as eccentric or odd.

Believe me, I get what you're saying completely.

I've thought about this alot.

I think Scientology is destructive in a very deep, metaphysical way.

All I am saying is that I liked Hubbard, and I remind myself of that so in the future I won't let feelings for a person cloud my judgment.

And on the opposite side of that, I don't let my judgment about things affect my feelings toward a person.

Also, there is so much animosity towards Hubbard on this board which re-enforces one to have a negative attitude toward him.

Especially from people who never met him.

I keep separate what I hear about a person with how I felt about the person before I heard what someone said.

And I am talking about someone who I knew personally to a degree; I felt he was a friend.

I love my wife. I will continue to love my wife no matter what I hear someone say about her.

And if she committed some horrible crime I would still love her. I wouldn't approve of what she did, but I would still love her.

(Although if she ever kills anyone it will probably be me!)

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Gib

Crusader
Believe me, I get what you're saying completely.

I've thought about this alot.

I think Scientology is destructive in a very deep, metaphysical way.

All I am saying is that I liked Hubbard, and I remind myself of that so in the future I won't let feelings for a person cloud my judgment.

And on the opposite side of that, I don't let my judgment about things affect my feelings toward a person.

Also, there is so much animosity towards Hubbard on this board which re-enforces one to have a negative attitude toward him.

Especially from people who never met him.

I keep separate what I hear about a person with how I felt about the person before I heard what someone said.

And I am talking about someone who I knew personally to a degree; I felt he was a friend.

I love my wife. I will continue to love my wife no matter what I hear someone say about her.

And if she committed some horrible crime I would still love her. I wouldn't approve of what she did, but I would still love her.

(Although if she ever kills anyone it will probably be me!)

The Anabaptist Jacques

I guess the difference is I never met hubbard nor talked with him personally, but you did, you knew the man from your live experiences with him, that's a whole new ball game that people don't understand. Am I correct in this assumption?
 

R2-45

Silver Meritorious Patron
I would like to attest that LRH was as sane as a three dollar bill.

"What is true for you is true for you"

"What is true for you is true for you" is true.

Therefore,
I would like to attest that LRH was as sane as a three dollar bill.

:hysterical:
 
I guess the difference is I never met hubbard nor talked with him personally, but you did, you knew the man from your live experiences with him, that's a whole new ball game that people don't understand. Am I correct in this assumption?

Yeah.

That makes a big difference.

Now if I knew then what I know now, it would have been different.

I would have at least discussed it with him.

But it would be my decision to make what I knew a factor, rather than someone else telling me how I should think or feel.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Gib

Crusader
Yeah.

That makes a big difference.

Now if I knew then what I know now, it would have been different.

I would have at least discussed it with him.

But it would be my decision to make what I knew a factor, rather than someone else telling me how I should think or feel.

The Anabaptist Jacques

thanks for replying. I appreciate that, :thumbsup:
 
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