Does it have to be this way?

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Mimsey, I can't recall the exact wording but David did post something (here) at some point around 5 years ago saying that he felt the whole thing (and his part in it) was a complete waste of time ... he didn't seem to be anything but a true ex to me and though he is gagged he managed to convey with a few "likes" and a few short posts his complete lack on interest in all things scientology and his enjoyment of his new life free from scio (he loves organic gardening).

I remember that a few people (freezoners) were really happy to see him (when he briefly joined ESMB) and were keen to relive the old days (from his squirrel group) and he really didn't want to know ... you could feel it, I'm pretty sure he's moved on and I don't think he believes in the tek at all now.

Sounds like Mayo did the smart thing and just let it go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZDGMI_6LXM

 

[Terril park]

David and Julie Mayo did that already.

He and Julie are no longer scientologists and see the whole subject as bullshit. Not only has David left and found that real life is better than anything scn has to offer, but those who were with David Mayo also left scn completely.

David Mayo had the largest worldwide squirrel group in scn history.

Does that tell you anything?



Exactly!

I know for a fact that not all who were with Mayo left Scn.

Ron's org are probably bigger than Mayo's centres. A year ago
the Hauri's had 1500-2000 people on their lines. And they are expanding.

Mayo had around 30 centres connected with him. Not sure how many people. The 10 year legal battle with CO$ seemed to scare people off.
The AACs lasted maybe a year. In Europe and Russia RO's were not easy to attack legally. The RO website based in holland is not susceptible under Dutch law to legal attack, and all materials are there.

 

[Churchill]

Organized Scientology, with buildings and contracted staff, cannot continue to exist without a method of compulsion. It cannot exist if anybody can just say "this whole space cootie thing is bullshit, where is the proof they exist?". It cannot exist if people can say "the emperor has no clothes".

The whole edifice is based on the foundation that people get immersed in a happy bubble of validation of their gains, and nobody is allowed to stick a pin in that bubble.

Scientology "works" largely as a result of group agreement, which is maintained and enforced by its "ethics" policies. If the "abilities gained" are ever questioned or seriously scrutinized, let alone, ridiculed, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
It is a ridiculously fragile construct, and once the trance is broken, it is lost, like a dream one wakes from and wants to return to, but to no avail.

 

[JustSheila]

I know for a fact that not all who were with Mayo left Scn.

Ron's org are probably bigger than Mayo's centres. A year ago
the Hauri's had 1500-2000 people on their lines. And they are expanding.

Mayo had around 30 centres connected with him. Not sure how many people. The 10 year legal battle with CO$ seemed to scare people off.
The AACs lasted maybe a year. In Europe and Russia RO's were not easy to attack legally. The RO website based in holland is not susceptible under Dutch law to legal attack, and all materials are there.

Terril, WHO is left from Mayo's groups that still believes in scn? Certainly no one who has posted here or on any other sites. Are these persons on 'The Big List'? If so, you can name them. If not, how about some idea of where they are living now and which of Mayo's centres they were in?

Ron's Org is such a squirreled version of scn, it's maybe 10% of the original with an added 20% different, made up stuff. I don't believe those stats for a second, either - sounds like that part of scn is something the Hauri's have maintained.

 

[LA SCN]

That's a big reason for Scn expansion during the pre-1980's period. Many people's first taste of it was with the relatively-non-crazy missions and field auditors. Get them sufficiently sucked in that they don't run away when they get to the orgs.

Yes indeed. It worked that way for me. It was a blast in those early days, very metaphysical. I remember this girl I was drilling tr's with - tr-0 - after we'd both had some Integrity Processing. Our integrity may or may not have been good as we got bored with the drill and started mocking up on each other - and line charging as we could see each others mock-ups and knew it. At a 'big' org we'd no doubt have been sent to ethics - at the mission level it was an exhilarating spiritual experience.

Our late friend Alan Walters wrote the Life Repair list that was run at the mission then - great stuff. The ED of the mission I attended had done the BC at St. Hill under Walters. Hubbard had to crush Walters and his successful missions early on - before the dwarf crushed them all, ensuring the non-expansion of scn for good.

 

[Terril park]

Terril, WHO is left from Mayo's groups that still believes in scn? Certainly no one who has posted here or on any other sites. Are these persons on 'The Big List'? If so, you can name them. If not, how about some idea of where they are living now and which of Mayo's centres they were in?

To my knowledge I only know around 5 people who were with Mayo.
They are all still scientologists, except one who is supportive, and notably Ken Urquhart who was an auditor at Mayo's centre. Steve Bisby now diseased was doing TIR and metapsychology. His wife still is I believe.
Freezoners tend to not inhabit critical forums which is probably why you have jumped to the conclusions you have.

Ron's Org is such a squirreled version of scn, it's maybe 10% of the original with an added 20% different, made up stuff.

The RO bridge to OT 3 is identical to the CO$ except for recomending
looking at CC platens on OT 2 if you didn't go clear on the clearing course.
Excal is very similar to NOTs and addresses entities. This per ROs brings you up to OT8. |Probably a better OT 8 than CO$ as DSM hasn't
meddled with it.

 

[uncover]

They were ..... They didn't ..... They were ..... They were ..... They were ..... They have been .....

.... and in the end they - even David Mayo - cognited that "the bridge" only leads to nowhere and that they have been conned by the master of all con men himself: El Con Hubbard.

Why is it so hard for you to accept, what "the master of all con men" himself cognited in the end:

that he failed - IMHO that he always has been only a big failure
​

Stephen Pfauth (known as "Sarge") was with LRH at the end right before he died.

In Lawrence Wright's book, page 364, he quotes Sarge as saying:

"He wanted to drop the body and leave. And he told me basically that he'd failed. All the work and everything, he'd failed."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...dmit-he-failed&p=771347&viewfull=1#post771347

Hubbard regularly cleaned up the field with amnesties.

Yes, to suck out more money and energy from his previous victims. And some idiots accepted this "amnesty".

What is wrong with the Co$-concept of "ethics" is the misuse as a pressure tool on an individual.

"The third dynamic - "the org" - is everything, is clean and does not make any mistakes. It is always only the inidividual which is wrong and makes mistakes and therfore has to be forgiven."

What this concept misses is the fact that every "third dynamic" (every org) is made of individuals - often sociopathic and criminal - who make mistakes and commit crimes to the public. And I have not heard of any case, where the "third dynamic" (the org) took responsibility for the mistakes and crimes of their members.

....amnesties. Why not do it again?

Simply because noone is interested in an amnesty of a sociopathic and criminal organization .... no one needs such an "amnesty". There is nothing the organization has left that it would be worth to obtain an "amnesty". The button: "You will loose your eternity" is only laughable after everybody can see the "Xenu-vomit" for free on southpark.

BTW: do you need an "amnesty" from McDonald that you loudly complained about the mouse in your burger so that everybody could hear it and noone bought any burger thereafter ? I bet, no....

And it is the same with the Co$:
The Co$ has always only been a service provider and has so many skeletons in their closet, that not any sane person needs an "amnesty" from them. In most of the cases it would be "them" to ask for forgivness and start an amend project - not their victims.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Scientology "works" largely as a result of group agreement, which is maintained and enforced by its "ethics" policies. If the "abilities gained" are ever questioned or seriously scrutinized, let alone, ridiculed, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
It is a ridiculously fragile construct, and once the trance is broken, it is lost, like a dream one wakes from and wants to return to, but to no avail.

Very well said and re-dickless indeed now lets all lock arms and sing

Ghostbusters !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoBLtLwpQQ

 

[JustSheila]

To my knowledge I only know around 5 people who were with Mayo.
They are all still scientologists, except one who is supportive, and notably Ken Urquhart who was an auditor at Mayo's centre. Steve Bisby now diseased was doing TIR and metapsychology. His wife still is I believe.
Freezoners tend to not inhabit critical forums which is probably why you have jumped to the conclusions you have.





The RO bridge to OT 3 is identical to the CO$ except for recomending
looking at CC platens on OT 2 if you didn't go clear on the clearing course.
Excal is very similar to NOTs and addresses entities. This per ROs brings you up to OT8. |Probably a better OT 8 than CO$ as DSM hasn't
meddled with it.

Thanks, Terril.

Ken Urquhart definitely counts. TIR and metapsychology certainly are not scn, not even close, so that takes two off the five which means you've only named one.

Assuming there are two more, that's only three out of thousands. A tiny percentage. Mayo had thousands of people in his centers. I can more accurately say that nearly every last one of them left scientology.

Do you know of any who returned to COS from Mayo's groups? I knew of one, back in the early 80s. She didn't stay on lines long before she left scn forever.

Thanks for the info about the RO bridge. The way Helena Handbasket talks about it, her version is nothing like the original. It sounds like it's done online, too. Is it?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

The RO bridge to OT 3 is identical to the CO$ except for recomending
looking at CC platens on OT 2 if you didn't go clear on the clearing course.
Excal is very similar to NOTs and addresses entities. This per ROs brings you up to OT8. |Probably a better OT 8 than CO$ as DM hasn't meddled with it.

HELPFUL R-FACTORS FOR INDIE SCIENTOLOGISTS

Terril posted: "The RO bridge to OT 3 is identical to the CO$ except for recommending looking at CC platens on OT 2 if you didn't go clear on the clearing course."

Reality Factor: Nobody goes clear on the clearing course. Nobody goes clear on any course. Even Ron never went clear. (Hope this makes it clear)
​

Terril posted: "Excal is very similar to NOTs and addresses entities. This per ROs brings you up to OT8. |Probably a better OT 8 than CO$ as DM hasn't meddled with it."

Reality Factor: There is no OT 8. Because there is no OT. OT 8 (in any form) is just some ordinary human beings writing things down on pieces of paper that are supposed to be magical formulas to gain superpowers that nobody ever attained.
​

Free Bonus Reality Factor: Dear Indies: Talking about "clear" and "OT" as if they exist is foolish. There is no difference between these mythical states and reading a DC comic book as a little kid and believing that there are people that wear capes and can fly. ​

Advanced Super-Reality Factor (wayyyyyy more upstat than a mere R-Factor): Dear all Scientologists: I know you think all these Hubbardian hoaxes are real, if not in the MEST universe, certainly (you think) some kind of "powers" must at least exist in the THETA universe. Let me help you with some word clearing. The "THETA universe" is a phenomena well known in the wog world. Humans call it "IMAGINATION". Apologies if this interferes with your F/N. ​

 

[phenomanon]

To my knowledge I only know around 5 people who were with Mayo.
They are all still scientologists, except one who is supportive, and notably Ken Urquhart who was an auditor at Mayo's centre. Steve Bisby now diseased was doing TIR and metapsychology. His wife still is I believe.
Freezoners tend to not inhabit critical forums which is probably why you have jumped to the conclusions you have.





The RO bridge to OT 3 is identical to the CO$ except for recomending
looking at CC platens on OT 2 if you didn't go clear on the clearing course.
Excal is very similar to NOTs and addresses entities. This per ROs brings you up to OT8. |Probably a better OT 8 than CO$ as DSM hasn't
meddled with it.

OMG!! What disease does ( did) Steve have????

 

[uncover]

So that everybody knows, what is meant when it is spoken about "David Mayo" and the "Advanced Ability Center" squirrel-group (oh, the good old times) here is a video about it (from Mark Bunkers youtube-channel):

[video=youtube;0IxWFOWj17M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IxWFOWj17M[/video]

Do you know of any who returned to COS from Mayo's groups?

Of course I know one: Bob Mithoff ..... ..... or wait.... maybe he was only a spy planted by the RTC ?

 

[phenomanon]

Thanks, Terril.

Ken Urquhart definitely counts. TIR and metapsychology certainly are not scn, not even close, so that takes two off the five which means you've only named one.

Assuming there are two more, that's only three out of thousands. A tiny percentage. Mayo had thousands of people in his centers. I can more accurately say that nearly every last one of them left scientology.

Do you know of any who returned to COS from Mayo's groups? I knew of one, back in the early 80s. She didn't stay on lines long before she left scn forever.

Thanks for the info about the RO bridge. The way Helena Handbasket talks about it, her version is nothing like the original. It sounds like it's done online, too. Is it?

TIR and Meta are very close to scn, Sheila. TIR is R3R ( Dianetic procedure) VERBATIM. I didn't stay at Sarge's Seminar to hear about his further Bridge that is called Metawhatever. I have No interest in scn under a different name.
Frankie and Mary Freedman were in Mayo's group, and are still scn'ists, as far as i know. I can't think of anyone else.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Mimsey, I can't recall the exact wording but David did post something (here) at some point around 5 years ago saying that he felt the whole thing (and his part in it) was a complete waste of time ... he didn't seem to be anything but a true ex to me and though he is gagged he managed to convey with a few "likes" and a few short posts his complete lack on interest in all things scientology and his enjoyment of his new life free from scio (he loves organic gardening).

I remember that a few people (freezoners) were really happy to see him (when he briefly joined ESMB) and were keen to relive the old days (from his squirrel group) and he really didn't want to know ... you could feel it, I'm pretty sure he's moved on and I don't think he believes in the tek at all now.

I remember that quite distinctly. . .

I won't mention any names so people don't get bent out of shape (but I can think the names, right? LOL).

What it looked like to me was the Indie/Freezoner guy(s) kept trying to run "arc straightwire" on Mayo, to "rehab" their fondly recalled "pleasure moments". Mayo didn't want to play. The Indies kept pathetically trying to encourage him to "SING ALONG DAVE!" as they belted out "We Stand Tall". Nothing was working, the Indies were sadly disappointed that Mayo wasn't the mythological Scientologist that they had been promoting all along on ESMB.

Example: "Hey Dave, do you remember that time when you were really super theta and you wrote me a super theta CS and everything and like I was like totally blown out and whatever and some junk?" (Mayo: crickets)


[video]http://www.hulu.com/watch/4186[/video]


See, I made it through the whole post without mentioning someone's name. LOL. I know you hate when I do this, but I didn't say any names right? lol

ML,

ITYIWS
(I told you I was suppressive)

 

[Operating DB]

I escaped the cult at the time when Mayo's AAC (Advanced Ability Center) was viable. The AAC newsletters were instrumental in peeling back the first layers of the onion. So I'm thankful for that.

I think it was March 1985 when I visited San Fran for some forgettable Independent Convention and met Mayo. He was a really likeable guy. I enjoyed my time there. I have pictures from that time including some of Mayo lecturing. Sorry, I'm too lazy to scan and post them.

Sure, that was a fun time back them given the circumstances and where my mind was but I'm not stuck on it nor have a desire to relive those days. I'm with the current David Mayo. We both have the same view that scn in any form is useless and a waste of time.

 

[Churchill]

I remember that quite distinctly. . .

I won't mention any names so people don't get bent out of shape (but I can think the names, right? LOL).

What it looked like to me was the Indie/Freezoner guy(s) kept trying to run "arc straightwire" on Mayo, to "rehab" their fondly recalled "pleasure moments". Mayo didn't want to play. The Indies kept pathetically trying to encourage him to "SING ALONG DAVE!" as they belted out "We Stand Tall". Nothing was working, the Indies were sadly disappointed that Mayo wasn't the mythological Scientologist that they had been promoting all along on ESMB.

Example: "Hey Dave, do you remember that time when you were really super theta and you wrote me a super theta CS and everything and like I was like totally blown out and whatever and some junk?" (Mayo: crickets)


[video]http://www.hulu.com/watch/4186[/video]


See, I made it through the whole post without mentioning someone's name. LOL. I know you hate when I do this, but I didn't say any names right? lol

ML,

ITYIWS
(I told you I was suppressive)

Not too long after David Mayo left, Charlie Batdorf asked me to call him and tell him how important he was to Scientology and how important it was, that he return, similar to the way that Izzy and Marilyn Chait tried to handle Marty Rathbun by appealing to his vanity.
I remember telling him that he was my "touchstone" which was a line I'd heard in a movie, and hoped would be effective.
Mayo mentioned that mine was the 4th call he'd received that essentially contained the same message and asked if anyone had put me up to it.
I lied and did my best to assure him that I was just reaching out to him as a concerned Scientologist.
We both knew better.
It would seem that it wasn't just the Indies who were attempting to run "arc straight wire" on him.

 

[uncover]

TIR and Meta are very close to scn, Sheila. TIR is R3R ( Dianetic procedure) VERBATIM. .....

wait, wait... R3R, Dianetics ..... you should know that by know..... Dianetics has NOT to be mixed up with Scientology:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 22 APRIL 1969

DIANETICS vs SCIENTOLOGY
​

Dianetics is Dianetics and Scientology is Scientology.

They are separate subjects. They have in common certain tools like the E-Meter, TRs and auditor presence. But there it ends.

Dianetics addresses the body. Scientology addresses the thetan. While a thetan can produce illness, it is the body that is ill.

Thus Dianetics is used to knock out and erase illnesses, unwanted sensations, misemotion, somatics, pain, etc. Scientology and its grades are never used for such things.

Scientology is used to increase spiritual freedom, intelligence, ability, to produce immortality.

To mix the two has been a very bad error.
.....

I think we have found now your big crashing MU which led you to leave. Do you want to write a success report ?

And BTW, when will you start your steps A to E ?

And yes, IMHO R3RA is probably one of the very few usable parts of Dn & Scn.

 

[JustSheila]

TIR and Meta are very close to scn, Sheila. TIR is R3R ( Dianetic procedure) VERBATIM. I didn't stay at Sarge's Seminar to hear about his further Bridge that is called Metawhatever. I have No interest in scn under a different name.
Frankie and Mary Freedman were in Mayo's group, and are still scn'ists, as far as i know. I can't think of anyone else.

R3R wasn't new or Hubbard's anyway - it was only an imitation of Freudian psychoanalysis in the first place, with rote questions instead of personalized ones. The only actual differences Hubbard made to it was the addition of searching for prenatal memories (which had already been debunked by Freud's time, more so now - as permanent memories don't form until at least the age of 2, usually 3 years), asking for E/S before this lifetime and in NED, asking for the confusion and postulate. It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that TIR does not include the changes Hubbard made of asking for prenatals, E/S before this lifetime, confusion or postulate off. Those were Hub's scn additions,and to the best of my knowledge (Terril and I went through the TIR thing before) they are not there. The format doesn't really matter, as it basically existed in psychology before Hubbard. As usual, he fraudulently put his name to others' work and just reworded it with a few changes.

In Freud's time it was tedious. It still is. Limited to PTSD, though, it has its uses, and TIR is limited to PTSD.

Metapsychology is not Sarge's or any ex's invention, either. It is part of the field of psychoanalytic theory. Again, Freud, origin 1868. If Sarge is trying to make scn into Metapsychology, he has colossal misunderstandings. From Merrian-Webster Dictionary (L Ron's favorite, lol):

Definition of metapsychology

• : speculative psychology concerned with postulating the structure (as the ego and id) and processes (as cathexis) of the mind which usually cannot be demonstrated objectively
  
  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metapsychology

ADDED: I just researched Frank Gerbode, who got TIR and metapsychology popular again. According to various Google articles, Dr. Frank Gerbode has a Stanford degree and is a full-fledged psychiatrist with full accredited internship. He does not credit scientology for TIR or for re-popularizing the concepts of metapsychology, but rather claims he traced both 'back to their origins' (Freud). He also claims to be an ex-scn. I'd say he's done well for himself. TIR is widely accepted in the fields of psychology and psychiatry for PTSD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metapsychology

 

[strativarius]

OMG!! What disease does ( did) Steve have????

Never misunderestimate Terril's ability to mangle the English language.

 

[Gizmo]

I was reflecting on Leon's thread, and the eventual changing of the guard when COB vacates the post for whatever reason.

Leon, Terrill, Ron Miscavage and Dan Koon and many indi's and free zoners promote the basic worth of auditing, training, while many feel that you can't have a positive Scientology because of the PTS SP / disconnection / RPF technologies inherent in it.

if Scientology was taken over by a person of compassion, who had the belief in the gains, that the beneficial aspects of the study were worth exporting, and way turned back the Miscavagian mind set, and returned to the milder ethics applications of the early 60's & 70's, ceased the practice of disconnection, and focused on delivering the tech, in lieu of the rapine IAS fundraising, would you support it?

Mimsey

OH HELL NO !