Does "mental mass" really exist?

[Martini]

This is more of a survey than anything. It is a subjective question seeking your own thoughts on it.

I was thinking about the vast differences in reality of some who have been in Scientology and left. Some think it was a total fraud, others see value in the tech, etc.

Part of the experiment here with this poll is to break this down further, to remove the nomenclature of Scientology (or even the discussion of it) and just ask a question about the mind that does not require a relation to auditing or the tech. It's just, "Do you experience mental mass on occasion, or not?"

 

[Zinjifar]

Actually, that's amusing. My first impulse is to say 'no', but, I actually think it *is* possible to translate 'mental' mass to 'physical' mass, although not in the way Ron 'predicted'.

In fact, it was the basis of a SF novel I was working on back in the early '70s about Los Angeles going 'black hole'. At least I was working on it till Samuel Delany came out with 'Dhalgren', which pretty much stole my thunder.

Zinj

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

This is more of a survey than anything. It is a subjective question seeking your own thoughts on it.

I was thinking about the vast differences in reality of some who have been in Scientology and left. Some think it was a total fraud, others see value in the tech, etc.

Part of the experiment here with this poll is to break this down further, to remove the nomenclature of Scientology (or even the discussion of it) and just ask a question about the mind that does not require a relation to auditing or the tech. It's just, "Do you experience mental mass on occasion, or not?"

It's an interesting question, I do believe mental mass may possibly exists, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Hubbard's mind control technology, and the longer you continue to waste your time with Hubbard's Bridge to Slavery, the less likely your chances are of finding out.

 

[Martini]

It's an interesting question, I do believe mental mass may possibly exist (snip).

Yeah I was thinking about how people tend to like others who make them laugh - is it possible that the laughter dissipates mental mass?

 

[Zinjifar]

Yeah I was thinking about how people tend to like others who make them laugh - is it possible that the laughter dissipates mental mass?

Why would one want to 'dissipate' it? Seen in a general relativity perspective, 'mental mass' would show as individuality; lack thereof would be 'nothing' and 'nobody home'.

*laughter* might show as colliding galaxies

Zinj

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Yeah I was thinking about how people tend to like others who make them laugh - is it possible that the laughter dissipates mental mass?

I think laughter is positive in general, there is more than likely to be an absence of danger when people are laughing ... unless of course the person laughing is a psychopath, in that case I think contemplating mental mass is the least of one's worries

 

[Martini]

Why would one want to 'dissipate' it? Seen in a general relativity perspective, 'mental mass' would show as individuality; lack thereof would be 'nothing' and 'nobody home'.

*laughter* might show as colliding galaxies

Zinj

Or maybe an asteroid storm!

I think the value of mental mass dissipation would be like having a pillow lifted off of you, that was unwanted of course.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The phenomenon on the body becoming lighter in weight at the exact moment of death has always interested me.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

If this is truly the weight of the sou,l and the euphoric feeling known as exteriorization one experiences in hypnotic trance such as auditing is really the soul exiting the body, then the difference in weight should be able to be quantified during processing such as auditing. I wonder if anyone has tried this experiment.

 

[MAX YOUR CREDIT]

Here is what I think:

The grief and mental duress I experienced from all the BS "handlings" at CC, I can attest to accumulated a lot of mental mass from the circus of the church. I have found out for myself and which to be true for me, that YES, there is some kind of thing that lingers amid our mind, spirit, frontal area, brain.... whatever you want to call it.....
But, I have found my own technique that has helped get rid of mental mass:

1. Allowing yourself to express your emotions. Forget about HER (human emotion reaction) For me, crying helped a lot. I cried for 10 to 20 minutes a few times a week after I decided I did not want to return to CC or be involved in SCN. It felt great!! And after reading a few new spiritual books, I understand that disease comes from emotional blockage. I believe this to be true.

2. Working out the body and sweating while working out lifted some of the mental mass. I would feel great after a good work out. There are times I would say to myself, "Wow, I feel like I just got out of session".

3. De-programming Scn from my psyche. I read a lot of books Scn's would consider "getting involved with other practices". This has helped a lot with lifting mental mass.

4. Writing in a journal and letting your thoughts just go wild helped too. It's like doing a write-up for your PC folder, but no one is going to read it, but YOU.

5. I started meditating and doing yoga. You know what I found out? Meditating is like doing OT TRO. You know the drill, be there comfortably with your eyes closed doing nothing? Well, I've read a few meditation books and that is what it says! Not in those same words, but same concept. Wow! I wish I had the courage to have picked up other books when I was in Scn and decide for myself. But, I was so brainwashed and so scared to F*ck up my case and get in trouble by ethics or the church.

Anyway, those are my two cents I share.

 

[Zinjifar]

I think the '28 grams' story is just that; a story. Not a reality. When I think 'mental mass', it's on a level far more subtle.

Zinj

 

[nexus100]

Mental and physcial mass are identical IMO. What matters is whether they are creating consciously or not.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I think the '28 grams' story is just that; a story. Not a reality. When I think 'mental mass', it's on a level far more subtle.

Zinj

I saw a documentary as a kid called "Beyond And Back". In this documentary a doctor claimed to weigh the difference in body weight at the time of death. If I remember correctly in was quite a bit less than 28 grams

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_and_Back

 

[Zinjifar]

I saw a documentary as a kid called "Beyond And Back". In this documentary a doctor claimed to weigh the difference in body weight at the time of death. If I remember correctly in was quite a bit less than 28 grams

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_and_Back

My thought goes to speed and momentum and the *billions* of connections in the brain that might play on a collection of such 'firing' neurons in a small place.

There is a very noticeable concatenation of weirdness when enough people are being weird A positive feedback effect.

It wouldn't surprise me if it would apply to mob psychology.

Zinj

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

My thought goes to speed and momentum and the *billions* of connections in the brain that might play on a collection of such 'firing' neurons in a small place.

There is a very noticeable concatenation of weirdness when enough people are being weird A positive feedback effect.

It wouldn't surprise me if it would apply to mob psychology.

Zinj

I guess the electrical activity in the body could create a mild gravitational effect or slight attraction to the Earth while alive, that is certainly a possibility since we are talking only a few grams at best, I wonder in an electrical motor weighs more while running as opposed to standing still.

 

[Martini]

My thought goes to speed and momentum and the *billions* of connections in the brain that might play on a collection of such 'firing' neurons in a small place.

There is a very noticeable concatenation of weirdness when enough people are being weird A positive feedback effect.

It wouldn't surprise me if it would apply to mob psychology.

Zinj

Off the subject, but regarding mob psychology, I just watched a video demonstrating that very thing.

Back on subject, see if you feel a dissipation of mental mass while watching it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8z7f7a2Pk

 

[Martini]

I saw a documentary as a kid called "Beyond And Back". In this documentary a doctor claimed to weigh the difference in body weight at the time of death. If I remember correctly in was quite a bit less than 28 grams

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_and_Back

"This data was recorded for all human subjects. When the same experiment was performed on dying dogs and other animals, however, no weight loss at all was detected at the moment of death."

My dog has a soul, those idiots!

 

[TomKat]

Some people have more mental mass than others. People who get headaches when they oversleep are very aware of mental mass. Or people who take 2 hours to wake up in the morning and look "squashed." We used to call this out-int. But the various int rundowns don't really solve it, because it's not your idea about the mass that's the problem, it's the mass itself. Some people solved it on OT3 or NOTs, but removing the mental mass brought them closer to their own personality splits (self-disownments), so they wigged out. Personality splits create attachments. That's mental mass, whether you call it that or BTs or clusters, it doesn't matter. It's a load sitting on your head and as you reduce it, you feel lighter, permanently.

This is more of a survey than anything. It is a subjective question seeking your own thoughts on it.

I was thinking about the vast differences in reality of some who have been in Scientology and left. Some think it was a total fraud, others see value in the tech, etc.

Part of the experiment here with this poll is to break this down further, to remove the nomenclature of Scientology (or even the discussion of it) and just ask a question about the mind that does not require a relation to auditing or the tech. It's just, "Do you experience mental mass on occasion, or not?"

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Some people have more mental mass than others. People who get headaches when they oversleep are very aware of mental mass. Or people who take 2 hours to wake up in the morning and look "squashed." We used to call this out-int. But the various int rundowns don't really solve it, because it's not your idea about the mass that's the problem, it's the mass itself. Some people solved it on OT3 or NOTs, but removing the mental mass brought them closer to their own personality splits (self-disownments), so they wigged out. Personality splits create attachments. That's mental mass, whether you call it that or BTs or clusters, it doesn't matter. It's a load sitting on your head and as you reduce it, you feel lighter, permanently.

I guess some people search for imaginary spiritual parasites to reduces their "mental mass", while others choose to exercise and stay active, and other just choose not to smoke a few packs of cigarettes and drink a fifth of Scotch before they go to bed. I guess you have to pick which method works best for you.

 

[programmer_guy]

There are very small weight changes of one's body at death.
(Some studies have shown that dogs don't have this happen because they respire differently than humans.)

This most likely has to do with cessation of respiration (and the consequent aftermath) than any so called spiritual explanation.

That's my opinion after doing just a little internet reading on this.

But, as the Rockman said to Oblio in "The Point", "You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear".

 

[Zinjifar]

What I meant, and would be interested in seeing looked at would be the *infinitesimal* differences, if any, between states of very low MRI activity as opposed to high. I doubt they'd be measurable, but, I wouldn't be surprised if they existed.

That, for me, would be 'mental mass'

Zinj