Done to others? Done to self? Why we left.

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Not surprisingly given the fact that this is an ex-Scientologist message board, most of us are ex-Scientologists. Which means at one time we were Scientologists. Almost always official, Church of Scientology (tm) Scientologists. And then we left.

I'm curious as to why we left.

More specifically, I'm curious regarding whether we left because of:

(1) What the Church did to us?

(2) What the Church did to others?

(3) What the Church did to both us and others?

Even more specifically, I'm curious regarding whether any of us left the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people.

And perhaps more interestingly (at least to me), did any of us leave the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people who did not fall within the category of our loved ones (e.g., spouse, child, parent, brother, sister, etc.).

Did any of us leave because others, excluding our loved ones, were being screwed, harmed, subjected to discrimination etc., despite the fact that we were then happy "winning?"

I ask because I sometimes believe I have read almost every bio and intro on this and other boards, going back to the heyday of ARS. They frequently, but perhaps not always, share a certain pattern. That pattern being, I was interested, happy, winning but then something was done to, or adversely affected, me. Historically, for some it was being at a screwed over Mission in the 1980s. Later, the debacle known as GAT. Bad auditing. Heavy regging. Abuse in the Sea Org. Something done to me. Perhaps, just perhaps, something done to a loved one.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, most traditional religions have taken an adverse view of homosexuality, but most tend to tone it down now, and other religions do not currently teach that gays are 1.1 covertly hostile perverts. I'm not comfortable with this, I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, we say that auditing is a religious practice, but we also say that anyone who has seen a psychiatrist and taken psychiatric medication is an "Illegal PC" and can't participate in this religious practice. I've known some "Illegal PCs" who have found this to be profoundly painful, depressing and invalidating. I'm not comfortable with this form of bigotry and discrimination. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, we're taught that "psychs" are evil, and indeed historically the sole source of all evil in the world. DM is always ranting about "busting psychs." I think that is wrong. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, July Smith was declared PTS because her father was critical of Scientology. She was ordered to "handle or disconnect," but for some unknown reason was unable or unwilling to do either. Now she has been declared, and we have been ordered to disconnect from her. I've never been that close to July, but she seemed to be a good enough person and she was really in a tough situation regarding her father. I've also seen parents ordered to disconnect from their children, children ordered to disconnect from their parents. Although it has never effected me, I think the disconnection policy is wrong. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, the Reg, per policy, just browbeat elderly Ms. Smith to mortgage her home, run up her credit cards, and engage in a scheme where she guaranteed someone else's loan, and that person guaranteed her loans, and now she is bankrupt. But the Org's stats were up. It didn't effect me. (Or, as a staff member, I benefited, even if indirectly.) Still, I think that is wrong. I have to leave.

I ask because I recall the events where DM or someone else would rant about "psychs," and we would stand up and applaud. I recall the ED of LAF in the 90s who was taken off post, and nobody would talk to her. I recall seeing the reg cycles of others and thinking, "This is not going to end well."

Did any of us give a shit, much less leave, until it happened to us?

Just curious.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
I didn't read your entire post - but to answer the question. I left because the CofS was changing tech. Not what it did to me, not what it did to others or the third option. Just what it was DOING. Period.
 

ILived1984!

Patron with Honors
Interesting question.

I left the church for what it did to me, others including people I didn't know and itself. It was a culmination of a whole load of things that happened.

One thing is, if one were winning and happy and attributed that to the organization one was in, why would you be upset or angry enough to leave as wouldn't that be what it would take. A disagreement or upset of some sort as mentioned? Happily leave the church because of disagreeing with things that happened...wouldn't that make someone a bit less happy or winning?

Case in point, at one time when I was very happy and very winning I noticed some outpoints in management. I simply worked out why they operated like that, steeled myself to not be that way and continued to better what I was responsible for thinking that they, in turn, would get better after experiencing what I had.

I have pondered what you said including trying to share a viewpoint with someone rejected from scn b/c of a psych case. I've witnessed the tears and sadness of these people. I was happy and winning and couldn't come to grips with why that person, who so desperately wanted to join up, couldn't because of something that happened in their past. I would feel sad but then from my mental conditioning, justify the sanity of rejecting that person. Although I had read a few stories of LRH not caring about someones past, particulalry in the early days of Dianetics and Scn.

When I left I was upset at everything including myself. I felt bad for my friends and co-workers, but I was excited to be free and excited about continuing my life with my family and friends who I neglected while in.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
I left for a myriad of reasons. Damn why can't I just be a simple person!

Bad auditing.

The lack of caring.

The lack of genuineness.

The bullshit lies I discovered. I got tired of "acceptable realities" being spun. The "number of scientologists" being offered to the media did not stake up with the numbers in reality. I knew that. The media was consistently told a bunch of lies.

A good friend got falsely declared. That threw me.

An completely insane justice cycle I had. How they got it so wrong is beyond comprehension. I got it reversed, I got it fixed but it made me wonder what the hell was really going on higher up in the group.

Watching OT's behave no differently to other people. I lost my faith to push for those higher levels. Nothing made sense - if they have had that which I am pursuing and they aren't doing well in life, WTF?

Working my arse off for what? A bunch of short, grammatically messy commendations? I wanted my freedom not a bunch of praise. I wanted real help when I needed it, not a whole bunch of hollow promises.

Watching others in the group being treated like crap. Being yelled at, being treated as commodities.

It staked up on me over the years. I wrote endless reports, blah, blah, blah. I was chasing my tail.

I left scientology because I came to realise it wasn't what it said it was. And I could not retain my integrity, my core values, belonging to a group which lied to its own people & lied to the world. Ultimately, it turns out, I respect myself way too much to be part of such a scam.

And things like that.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
First, I noticed what the CofS was doing to others. I wrote this stuff up and they started doing things to me. It didn't faze me.

Next, I noticed what the CofS was doing to itself. I wrote this stuff up and they started other doing things to me. It didn't faze me.

Finally, I noticed what the CofS was doing to me. I wrote this stuff up and they started doing more things to me. It didn't faze me.

I invented the 3 step Instant Exit Program;
1. Spot the biggest Tech/Admin/Ethics outness you can see.
2. Write it up fully and send it uplines.
3. Honestly observe what happens next.

I did the program.

I decided the CofS was a Suppresive Group and disconnected from it.
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I left because of what it was doing to those around me. I was in the SO and more and more, day in and day out, fellow SO members were getting more and more serious. I was seeing way to much anger and barking. The SO creeped me out.
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
Interesting question.

I left the church for what it did to me, others including people I didn't know and itself. It was a culmination of a whole load of things that happened.

THIS ^^^^


I left for a myriad of reasons. Damn why can't I just be a simple person!

Bad auditing.

The lack of caring.

The lack of genuineness.

The bullshit lies I discovered. I got tired of "acceptable realities" being spun. The "number of scientologists" being offered to the media did not stake up with the numbers in reality. I knew that. The media was consistently told a bunch of lies.

A good friend got falsely declared. That threw me.

An completely insane justice cycle I had. How they got it so wrong is beyond comprehension. I got it reversed, I got it fixed but it made me wonder what the hell was really going on higher up in the group.

Watching OT's behave no differently to other people. I lost my faith to push for those higher levels. Nothing made sense - if they have had that which I am pursuing and they aren't doing well in life, WTF?

Working my arse off for what? A bunch of short, grammatically messy commendations? I wanted my freedom not a bunch of praise. I wanted real help when I needed it, not a whole bunch of hollow promises.

Watching others in the group being treated like crap. Being yelled at, being treated as commodities.

It staked up on me over the years. I wrote endless reports, blah, blah, blah. I was chasing my tail.

I left scientology because I came to realise it wasn't what it said it was. And I could not retain my integrity, my core values, belonging to a group which lied to its own people & lied to the world. Ultimately, it turns out, I respect myself way too much to be part of such a scam.

And things like that.

AND ABOUT 2/3 OF THAT ^^^^

I invented the 3 step Instant Exit Program;
1. Spot the biggest Tech/Admin/Ethics outness you can see.
2. Write it up fully and send it uplines.
3. Honestly observe what happens next.

Panda, I believe there's a story there. What was the biggest outness you saw, and what did you observe happened when you wrote it up?
:happydance: Story! :happydance: Story! :happydance: Story! :happydance:
Tell us! Tell us!
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
The biggest problem.

The biggest thing for me was that I couldn't just plain talk. I couldn't talk about Scientology without getting into my disagreements. I couldn't talk about my life without talking about Scientology. Depending on who I talked to and what I was talking about, I had to do an introverting mental calculation of various lengths to decide what I was going to say. Almost any topic of conversation could potentially lead me into talking about Scientology. I didn't like to lie, so I ended up just shutting up. I was all neatly wrapped up and gagged. Finally, the pressure built up too high. Learning about abortion in the S.O. and the fact that we were cheering about dropping the McPherson case were the last straws for me, before I came out and talked.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
The biggest thing for me was that I couldn't just plain talk. I couldn't talk about Scientology without getting into my disagreements. I couldn't talk about my life without talking about Scientology. Depending on who I talked to and what I was talking about, I had to do an introverting mental calculation of various lengths to decide what I was going to say. Almost any topic of conversation could potentially lead me into talking about Scientology. I didn't like to lie, so I ended up just shutting up. I was all neatly wrapped up and gagged. Finally, the pressure built up too high. Learning about abortion in the S.O. and the fact that we were cheering about dropping the McPherson case were the last straws for me, before I came out and talked.

Well said.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Panda, I believe there's a story there. What was the biggest outness you saw, and what did you observe happened when you wrote it up?
:happydance: Story! :happydance: Story! :happydance: Story! :happydance:
Tell us! Tell us!
Yes, Mac, there is a story there. Well spotted!

I've told it to many people but haven't posted it here simply because it points directly to my identity. I somehow manage to maintain the self-generated illusion that I remain unidentifiable to the world at large. Some here have attempted to disabuse me of this fanciful notion but I cling to my anonymity like Linus clings to his security blanket.

Perhaps I'll write it up and PM you, I'll think about it. :)
 

Carmel

Crusader
People in the CofS did many things to me over the years, but that's not why I left.

I saw people in the CofS doing many things to others, but that's not why I left either.

I left when my dream or hope or mock up or illusion of what I thought it should be or could be, got destroyed.
 

The Clam

Patron with Honors
I left when I discovered that the church had an IRS compliance officer. Thru the agreement between the COS and IRS the church would have to police its parishioner to pay their taxes. Because of the "law of agency" once a company ,organization, individual etc agrees to perform a function for another they become legally binded to one another to perform agreed upon, contractual duties. So in any tax matters concerning any of the parishioner it is the responsibility of the church to enforce payment of any over due taxes.
This partnership destroyed the church parishioner privileged of communications
and gave t he right of the IRS or any government affiliated agencies to inspect pc or ethic folders and use it against the individual though to date I have not heard of that happening but I have been interview by orders of the tax compliance officer orders. So who knows where the data from the interview ended up. At that point I figured that the War the church won against the IRS was a sham to which later I found that one of the board members of the CST was ex IRS all the pieces fit together. DM raise to power was assisted by agent implanted with it the church and their real goal is to destroy Scn by altering the tech and legally robbing its declining members to the point of driving away as many members as possible.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
The biggest thing for me was that I couldn't just plain talk. I couldn't talk about Scientology without getting into my disagreements. I couldn't talk about my life without talking about Scientology. Depending on who I talked to and what I was talking about, I had to do an introverting mental calculation of various lengths to decide what I was going to say. Almost any topic of conversation could potentially lead me into talking about Scientology. I didn't like to lie, so I ended up just shutting up. I was all neatly wrapped up and gagged. Finally, the pressure built up too high. L


Amazing!

That is exactly why I began my exit ... I just could not talk to anyone about anything unless I planned it first (and replied very quickly due to being 'low toned' if you comm lagged).

I couldn't talk to Scio's (I disliked the fact that all they spoke about was bloody Blubby Hubbard and Scio) and I could never actually relax with a Scio due to maybe saying something 'wrong' ... (always a possibility :whistling: ) and ending up in ethics.

I couldn't talk to non Scios due to the 'us and them' phenomena that Blub created .

I also decided to just shut up and am only now learning how to speak again ... and I only realised that yesterday so I am stunned to find that it wasn't only happening to me.

Incredible.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I observed around me human suffering, and set upon a quest to find why it was so and how to right it.

I bumped into Dianetics, seeing it as an answer, and latched on. I found personal enhancement and plausible answers, but with those taken into real life they were not enough to bring about adequate change.

Of others taking the same path, I also did not observe the desired beingness and loving action. I was losing hope in that path. Not in others, but in that path.

In January 2008, with the anonymous declaration of war, and my subsequent reading of the events of the Co$ causing human suffering, I blew up. I slammed the door on the incorrect organization and started to view the evidence of a failed path. The hidden was coming to view:omg:

Oppression of my fellow human beings, by my fellows! what? NO NO NO.:angry: :duh:

Absolute outrage, realization of betrayal, I disavowed my membership. Completely.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I left when I finally realized that a world run by Scientology would be a brutal totalitarian nightmare.
 
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olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
<snip>
I'm curious regarding whether any of us left the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people.

And perhaps more interestingly (at least to me), did any of us leave the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people who did not fall within the category of our loved ones (e.g., spouse, child, parent, brother, sister, etc.).

Did any of us leave because others, excluding our loved ones, were being screwed, harmed, subjected to discrimination etc., despite the fact that we were then happy "winning?"

I ask because I sometimes believe I have read almost every bio and intro on this and other boards, going back to the heyday of ARS. They frequently, but perhaps not always, share a certain pattern. That pattern being, I was interested, happy, winning but then something was done to, or adversely affected, me. Historically, for some it was being at a screwed over Mission in the 1980s. Later, the debacle known as GAT. Bad auditing. Heavy regging. Abuse in the Sea Org. Something done to me. Perhaps, just perhaps, something done to a loved one.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, most traditional religions have taken an adverse view of homosexuality, but most tend to tone it down now, and other religions do not currently teach that gays are 1.1 covertly hostile perverts. I'm not comfortable with this, I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, we say that auditing is a religious practice, but we also say that anyone who has seen a psychiatrist and taken psychiatric medication is an "Illegal PC" and can't participate in this religious practice. I've known some "Illegal PCs" who have found this to be profoundly painful, depressing and invalidating. I'm not comfortable with this form of bigotry and discrimination. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, we're taught that "psychs" are evil, and indeed historically the sole source of all evil in the world. DM is always ranting about "busting psychs." I think that is wrong. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, July Smith was declared PTS because her father was critical of Scientology. She was ordered to "handle or disconnect," but for some unknown reason was unable or unwilling to do either. Now she has been declared, and we have been ordered to disconnect from her. I've never been that close to July, but she seemed to be a good enough person and she was really in a tough situation regarding her father. I've also seen parents ordered to disconnect from their children, children ordered to disconnect from their parents. Although it has never effected me, I think the disconnection policy is wrong. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, the Reg, per policy, just browbeat elderly Ms. Smith to mortgage her home, run up her credit cards, and engage in a scheme where she guaranteed someone else's loan, and that person guaranteed her loans, and now she is bankrupt. But the Org's stats were up. It didn't effect me. (Or, as a staff member, I benefited, even if indirectly.) Still, I think that is wrong. I have to leave.

I ask because I recall the events where DM or someone else would rant about "psychs," and we would stand up and applaud. I recall the ED of LAF in the 90s who was taken off post, and nobody would talk to her. I recall seeing the reg cycles of others and thinking, "This is not going to end well."

Did any of us give a shit, much less leave, until it happened to us?

Just curious.

Yes.

Can't say I was "totally winning and happily going up the bridge until..." because, how can you "happily" participate in something which you view as unethical and unnacceptable?

I protested some things (like being "sent to ethics" because one was late, or missed class -- jeezus, aren't we grownups? aren't we here because we choose to be here?) from very early on, but continued to participate because there seemed to be value (for self and others) in scientology and just because "some people" do things a little weird doesn't mean it's all crap.

The more I saw, the more I protested, and finally refused to participate. None of my family were involved; the few friends I had (some still in) made their own choices and it's not my place to tell them what to do even when I vehemently disagree; although I was disappointed by the whole show, I did not "suffer" as so many have.

I was "actively involved" (reading books, doing courses, non-SO staff for a short time) for a total of approximately four years.

Hope that answers your question.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Your involvement sounds like mine, Olska, except that I married a girl and had children with her while on staff. So leaving was stickier and marred by huge losses, for both me, and my children.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
Your involvement sounds like mine, Olska, except that I married a girl and had children with her while on staff. So leaving was stickier and marred by huge losses, for both me, and my children.

Understood.

I was fortunate to get out with few losses -- some money that (in hindsight I see) might have been better spent, now written off along with once bailing a loser boyfriend out of jail, and a few other foolish expenditures I've made along the way as "tuition in the university of life."

Coerced "disconnection" was one of the things I disagreed with from the beginning. I've in fact cut off certain people in my life who were toxic for one reason or another, but not because the CoS ordered it. That (along with many other smaller things) was an example of what I viewed as us being treated like children, as though we didn't have good sense and couldn't be trusted to manage our own lives.

For years after I was "off lines", several of my close friends were still active scientologists and with them I was (still am) careful not to do or say anything that would come up in their sessions and force them to disconnect from me. Turns out they are too busy being managed by the CoS to have any time or energy for real friendships anyway, but I still love them.

Now thanks to all the information out there on the internet, I see the bigger picture: Hubbard's game was to manipulate all our lives for his own purposes, not our benefit.
 
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