Done to others? Done to self? Why we left.

Wisened One

Crusader
I left because of being sick and tired of working 80 hrs a week for little to no pay and the goal being too large, too far away, and then coming to the conclusion that it's an impossible goal. (Clearing The Planet).

Also left because I saw no true Clears and OT's (that were worth all the time/money to acheive it, that is). Most had (if not all) had same problems of life *all* people have: Divorces, Health Issues, Financial Issues, Depression, etc...makes one seriously question WHAT *exactly* did that $300 grand get them again? :hmm:

:eyeroll:

:no:
 
Why,

During the mission shake up in the 80s it became even more clear to me that the people running the show had no idea what they were doing. After all that standard tech, admin training, and experience, they still had no idea how to organize and run a church of scn. With all the volumes dedicated to doing it in a certain rigidly defined way, it just couldn't work. These people were doomed to making the same mistakes over and over again, and because they can not vary their methods are never going to figure out why.

The old ed was out of the picture and a new management team was selected from the 'elite' staff members. What a joke that turned out to be. The biggest ass holes you ever saw were now our bosses. It became a very oppressive place to be.

This became the opening I needed to start looking at the tech in a critical way, rather than just going along to get along. After a short time I was pretty much done with scn because the 'tech' can not stand up to logical thinking. (just my opinion, don't want to start anything)

I was on staff at a mission at that time, and while I was doing OK personally, I could see no future there. I had a wife and two kids and had to begin to look at our future possibilities. Remaining on staff seemed like a total dead end and my evolving opinion of the tech was becoming a problem.

One day an event happened at the mission that really shook things up for everyone there, the details of which I will omit for now. My first reaction was "I'm out of here". I went to my wife and just spilled my guts out, said "let's go", and to my surprise she grabbed her stuff and we snuck out a side door never to return. Turns out she had the same doubts, but as good scns we could not voice any of it (so good at communication and all).

So the answer, for me at least, was a growing certainty that scn was unworkable. There is no validity at all that I can see, and certainly no future. There were a lot of things I saw done to others, and plenty that I thought was done to me, but I somehow dealt with that while in.

AWH
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I was one of the people who went incognito. You are right, it was difficult.

I realized I was doing very little good, and was doing much more harm. I was doing harm by supporting abuse -- by paying the COS for courses and books. By being the "reasonable," "rational" public face. By smoothing things over.

Simply by being there, giving my public allegiance (despite my largely but certainly not entirely private misgivings) to the group.

Ultimately there is a balance, you know? A net result -- positive or negative. No institution, group, person, or even Church or religion, is all good. Man is flawed, so that which man creates is flawed. So be it. But there is a net result. "Ye shall know them by their fruits." And the fruit of the Church of Scientology is mostly rotten.

I did leave quietly. I simply left at the end of one day, and then never came back.


I hear ya and I think that's the way most people leave. The hassles people are subjected to when they actually try to be candid with the organization are just ridiculous.

There are many valid criticisms that can be and are made re CofS for sure. One I find particularly noticeable and prominent is their truly crappy communication skills. They can't "confront" anything they think is "entheta". They don't respond to people. They make people wrong. They lie. All the stuff they bitch about other people doing.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Not surprisingly given the fact that this is an ex-Scientologist message board, most of us are ex-Scientologists. Which means at one time we were Scientologists. Almost always official, Church of Scientology (tm) Scientologists. And then we left.

I'm curious as to why we left.

More specifically, I'm curious regarding whether we left because of:

(1) What the Church did to us?

(2) What the Church did to others?

(3) What the Church did to both us and others?

Even more specifically, I'm curious regarding whether any of us left the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people.


Great question.

Actually, if it had been only me, I probably would have hung in there a lot longer than I did.

I'm one of those hard core types who find a way to live through pretty much everything.

But my husband was miserable.

Really
miserable.

I'll never forget. One night he came home and said:

"I hate my life".

I felt awful that he felt so awful.

I figured out how to get out of there, and within the month we were gone.
 

myrklix

Patron with Honors
First, I noticed what the CofS was doing to others. I wrote this stuff up and they started doing things to me. It didn't faze me.

Next, I noticed what the CofS was doing to itself. I wrote this stuff up and they started other doing things to me. It didn't faze me.

Finally, I noticed what the CofS was doing to me. I wrote this stuff up and they started doing more things to me. It didn't faze me.

I invented the 3 step Instant Exit Program;
1. Spot the biggest Tech/Admin/Ethics outness you can see.
2. Write it up fully and send it uplines.
3. Honestly observe what happens next.

I did the program.

I decided the CofS was a Suppresive Group and disconnected from it.

This is great!
It should've been an HCOPL or, er... BPL? Or, perhaps, the next revision to KSW.

But, in answer to the original thought of this thread, I didn't leave as a result of what I was seeing being done to others 'cuz I didn't/couldn't see much of that at the local org I attended as public. Of course at the time I was questioning some stuff but nothing egregious. But now, in the past year or so of looking online (even though I've been out ~15 years) I am disgusted/appalled/saddened/etc. with all the stories I've read.
 

Nicki

Patron with Honors
For me...it is mostly because of the GAT( Me and people who were there in the earlier years, and new ones learning the tech that way.), the relentless regging (mostly others) and some of the things that are being regged for, the way PTS handlings were done where people would have to "handle" family members simply because they disagreed with Scientology (others) keeping them off the bridge sometimes for years, young kids in the SO especially on training lines and qual lines who were robotic about the tech (others),
witnessing various staff being berated unecessarily (other),
I have a few personal incidents, but really have no "charge" on them....thery are over, done and some were actually made up for by the offending terminals..
Out tech...why are OTs needing to go back and get sec checked every six months on an upper OT level (money - others), what I now consider outrageous prices for the bridge to total debt,( me and others).
And wonderment, about what is going on still that we don't even know about.....(others).

Nicki


Not surprisingly given the fact that this is an ex-Scientologist message board, most of us are ex-Scientologists. Which means at one time we were Scientologists. Almost always official, Church of Scientology (tm) Scientologists. And then we left.

I'm curious as to why we left.

More specifically, I'm curious regarding whether we left because of:

(1) What the Church did to us?

(2) What the Church did to others?

(3) What the Church did to both us and others?

Even more specifically, I'm curious regarding whether any of us left the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people.

And perhaps more interestingly (at least to me), did any of us leave the Church only and solely because of what it was doing to other people who did not fall within the category of our loved ones (e.g., spouse, child, parent, brother, sister, etc.).

Did any of us leave because others, excluding our loved ones, were being screwed, harmed, subjected to discrimination etc., despite the fact that we were then happy "winning?"

I ask because I sometimes believe I have read almost every bio and intro on this and other boards, going back to the heyday of ARS. They frequently, but perhaps not always, share a certain pattern. That pattern being, I was interested, happy, winning but then something was done to, or adversely affected, me. Historically, for some it was being at a screwed over Mission in the 1980s. Later, the debacle known as GAT. Bad auditing. Heavy regging. Abuse in the Sea Org. Something done to me. Perhaps, just perhaps, something done to a loved one.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, most traditional religions have taken an adverse view of homosexuality, but most tend to tone it down now, and other religions do not currently teach that gays are 1.1 covertly hostile perverts. I'm not comfortable with this, I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, we say that auditing is a religious practice, but we also say that anyone who has seen a psychiatrist and taken psychiatric medication is an "Illegal PC" and can't participate in this religious practice. I've known some "Illegal PCs" who have found this to be profoundly painful, depressing and invalidating. I'm not comfortable with this form of bigotry and discrimination. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, we're taught that "psychs" are evil, and indeed historically the sole source of all evil in the world. DM is always ranting about "busting psychs." I think that is wrong. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, July Smith was declared PTS because her father was critical of Scientology. She was ordered to "handle or disconnect," but for some unknown reason was unable or unwilling to do either. Now she has been declared, and we have been ordered to disconnect from her. I've never been that close to July, but she seemed to be a good enough person and she was really in a tough situation regarding her father. I've also seen parents ordered to disconnect from their children, children ordered to disconnect from their parents. Although it has never effected me, I think the disconnection policy is wrong. I have to leave.

Was anyone winning, happy, going up the Bridge, but said to oneself, "You know, the Reg, per policy, just browbeat elderly Ms. Smith to mortgage her home, run up her credit cards, and engage in a scheme where she guaranteed someone else's loan, and that person guaranteed her loans, and now she is bankrupt. But the Org's stats were up. It didn't effect me. (Or, as a staff member, I benefited, even if indirectly.) Still, I think that is wrong. I have to leave.

I ask because I recall the events where DM or someone else would rant about "psychs," and we would stand up and applaud. I recall the ED of LAF in the 90s who was taken off post, and nobody would talk to her. I recall seeing the reg cycles of others and thinking, "This is not going to end well."

Did any of us give a shit, much less leave, until it happened to us?

Just curious.
 

riptide

Patron with Honors
Did any of us give a shit, much less leave, until it happened to us?

Just curious.

I gave a shit, but was pressured to conform to ideas/viewpoints that did not seem correct. That never sat well with me. (Obviously) After enough bad things happened to me (nutty ethics cycles, out tech at the Mecca) an SP declare tore apart my family, I was upset and bruised and bewildered, but it was not until I got on the Internet and discovered how many OTHER people got *FU**ED OVER* that I said, "I'm leaving".

It went in stages for me. Ended primarily when the organization has been shown beyond a reasonable doubt that it has betrayed me, and others for decades. Thanks for asking.
 
When I realized that the only person I could talk to was an ashtray, that sort of did it for me.

Oh, I also talked to a stuffed animal named Captain Frog, but I only did that because I was driven insane by talking to an ashtray so damn much.

You guys provide better conversation.
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
When I realized that the only person I could talk to was an ashtray, that sort of did it for me.

Oh, I also talked to a stuffed animal named Captain Frog, but I only did that because I was driven insane by talking to an ashtray so damn much.

You guys provide better conversation.

:roflmao: :thumbsup:
 
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