Downward spiral of the COS

[Boojuum]

David Miscavage, as the exclusive source of any high level COS decisions is the "one trick pony".

With the transparency of the internet, the COS can't hide. THIS is the problem that won't go away. DM has no answer except to attack. "Attack" no longer works. "Attack" just makes you look even more criminal than you are.

The cycle is: DM attacks--->>>internet exposes it--->>>COS loses PR battle--->>>more people get interested in the battle--->>>the COS shrinks--->>>DM attacks more--->>>internet exposes it--->>> COS loses PR battle--->>>more people get interested in the battle--->>>the COS shrinks--->>>DM attacks more and so on

DM is trapped and he doesn't have the skill set or wisdom to get out of the mess.

I was once a true believer and shudder at the PR mess but shudder even more at the incompetance.

It wasn't all bad, but it's sure looking that way now.

 

[Sindy]

David Miscavage, as the exclusive source of any high level COS decisions is the "one trick pony".

With the transparency of the internet, the COS can't hide. THIS is the problem that won't go away. DM has no answer except to attack. "Attack" no longer works. "Attack" just makes you look even more criminal than you are.

The cycle is: DM attacks--->>>internet exposes it--->>>COS loses PR battle--->>>more people get interested in the battle--->>>the COS shrinks--->>>DM attacks more--->>>internet exposes it--->>> COS loses PR battle--->>>more people get interested in the battle--->>>the COS shrinks--->>>DM attacks more and so on

DM is trapped and he doesn't have the skill set or wisdom to get out of the mess.

I was once a true believer and shudder at the PR mess but shudder even more at the incompetance.

It wasn't all bad, but it's sure looking that way now.

The way I see it, the only way they could possibly avert total catastrophe is to admit the lies and get honest and straight. That will never happen. They're doomed.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

The way I see it, the only way they could possibly avert total catastrophe is to admit the lies and get honest and straight. That will never happen. They're doomed.

That's the problem, exactly! They can't admit the lies.

Maybe they could just change their marketing approach so they don't go out of business completely.

"Hello! We're Scientology! We have been lying for 65 years about our "Bridge to Total Freedom" and supernatural "OT" abilities. But we mean well. We're good people! Actually, we've been lying about the state of Clear too, which pretty much means we have lied about everything. But, we'd like to win back your confidence and earn your business again. Because we still need & want you to make a $ 500,000 donation. It's not totally out-exchange, because we can still give you a really impressive sounding status level name, a shiny trophy and a certificate in Old English letters. We're the all-new Scientology--we're the "buy a status" people!"​

 

[TrevAnon]

"Hello! We're Scientology! We have been lying for 65 years about our "Bridge to Total Freedom" and supernatural "OT" abilities. But we mean well. We're good people! Actually, we've been lying about the state of Clear too, which pretty much means we have lied about everything. But, we'd like to win back your confidence and earn your business again. Because we still need & want you to make a $ 500,000 donation. It's not totally out-exchange, because we can still give you a really impressive sounding status level name, a shiny trophy and a certificate in Old English letters. We're the all-new Scientology--we're the "buy a status" people!"​

GREAT!!!

Where do I sign up?​

 

[cleared cannibal]

First rule of politics. When the enemy is destroying himself,stay the hell out of his way.

This was kind of the idea I was getting at on the abolishing tax exempt thread when I indicated pushing for this could cause more harm than good in the present climate of IRS abuses on tax exempt orgs. At this point in time I am not so sure Scn needs money as much as members and Sea Org slaves. I know the sea Org recruiting junk mail has picked up considerably at our address in the last 6 mo. There is a critical mass in which the present charade cannot continue in it's present form as far as personnel and membership goes irrespective of donations .

I am not so sure the whole ideal org program is not straight out of Sun Tzu's book "Art of War"

"Appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak."

The ideal orgs make them appear strong when it is really a hollow shell underneath.

 

[Churchill]

First rule of politics. When the enemy is destroying himself,stay the hell out of his way.

This was kind of the idea I was getting at on the abolishing tax exempt thread when I indicated pushing for this could cause more harm than good in the present climate of IRS abuses on tax exempt orgs. At this point in time I am not so sure Scn needs money as much as members and Sea Org slaves. I know the sea Org recruiting junk mail has picked up considerably at our address in the last 6 mo. There is a critical mass in which the present charade cannot continue in it's present form as far as personnel and membership goes irrespective of donations .

I am not so sure the whole ideal org program is not straight out of Sun Tzu's book "Art of War"

"Appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak."

The ideal orgs make them appear strong when it is really a hollow shell underneath.

The corollary view is that NOW is the time for the multitudes who have been cruelly harmed by Scientology to find their voices and speak out. That's how to stop the abuse.

 

[Sindy]

First rule of politics. When the enemy is destroying himself,stay the hell out of his way.

This was kind of the idea I was getting at on the abolishing tax exempt thread when I indicated pushing for this could cause more harm than good in the present climate of IRS abuses on tax exempt orgs. At this point in time I am not so sure Scn needs money as much as members and Sea Org slaves. I know the sea Org recruiting junk mail has picked up considerably at our address in the last 6 mo. There is a critical mass in which the present charade cannot continue in it's present form as far as personnel and membership goes irrespective of donations .

I am not so sure the whole ideal org program is not straight out of Sun Tzu's book "Art of War"

"Appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak."

The ideal orgs make them appear strong when it is really a hollow shell underneath.

But the IRS keeps helping them and it could be argued that the tax exempt status is the only thing keeping them limping along. I am probably missing something because your point is unclear to me.

I think the current climate is the one to pounce on re: tax status, hell even Mia Farrow has passed the petition around and lots of media outlets are shining a bright light on that very topic now.

Having said that, I still don't see the IRS pulling their status but again, don't see how pushing for it does any harm at all.

 

[cleared cannibal]

But the IRS keeps helping them and it could be argued that the tax exempt status is the only thing keeping them limping along. I am probably missing something because your point is unclear to me.

I think the current climate is the one to pounce on re: tax status, hell even Mia Farrow has passed the petition around and lots of media outlets are shining a bright light on that very topic now.

Having said that, I still don't see the IRS pulling their status but again, don't see how pushing for it does any harm at all.

My point is Scn is causing more damage to itself than any outside force can. New attacks from where ever run the risk of muddying the water especially when such a hated org as the IRS seems to be their enemy. I know if I didn't know any thing about Scn and I heard IRS was their enemy I would probably side with Scn ,of course I am one of those who think the guberment is out to get you. Another thing right now I think bodies in the shop may be more important than money. I said a while back on a post that for those who are already koolaid drinkers that the loss of the exemption wouldn't make all that much difference, so money wise we are mainly talking about raw meat and I suspect that stat is already at multi decade lows. I don't feel the main benefit to Scn was the additional money they got from their exemption but the fact they seemed to more of a mainstream legitimate religion, unfortunately that horse is out of the barn for now.

Just getting the knowledge out of what Scn is and does as Going Clear did is more effective to me than direct attacks. Remember "all warfare is based on deception". Another Sun Tzu quote. I know everyone here wants the abuses to stop tomorrow but they won't and that is why we have to play the long game unlike Scn who only looks til next Thrus. I really think we have done pretty well as the pool of new recruits has dried up and many have left. The sad truth is some won't leave until death either their own or of Scn.

Just an alternate view and I agree I don't know if pushing to pull the exemption does any harm , but it could if it garners more support from various religions and groups who them selves are afraid of loosing their exemption. If it wasn't for the fact that Scn is a criminal organization which rivals La Cosa Nostra for ruthlessness I don't think they should lose their exemption as long as religions in general are exempt.

 

[Sindy]

My point is Scn is causing more damage to itself than any outside force can. New attacks from where ever run the risk of muddying the water especially when such a hated org as the IRS seems to be their enemy. I know if I didn't know any thing about Scn and I heard IRS was their enemy I would probably side with Scn ,of course I am one of those who think the guberment is out to get you. Another thing right now I think bodies in the shop may be more important than money. I said a while back on a post that for those who are already koolaid drinkers that the loss of the exemption wouldn't make all that much difference, so money wise we are mainly talking about raw meat and I suspect that stat is already at multi decade lows. I don't feel the main benefit to Scn was the additional money they got from their exemption but the fact they seemed to more of a mainstream legitimate religion, unfortunately that horse is out of the barn for now.

Just getting the knowledge out of what Scn is and does as Going Clear did is more effective to me than direct attacks. Remember "all warfare is based on deception". Another Sun Tzu quote. I know everyone here wants the abuses to stop tomorrow but they won't and that is why we have to play the long game unlike Scn who only looks til next Thrus. I really think we have done pretty well as the pool of new recruits has dried up and many have left. The sad truth is some won't leave until death either their own or of Scn.

Just an alternate view and I agree I don't know if pushing to pull the exemption does any harm , but it could if it garners more support from various religions and groups who them selves are afraid of loosing their exemption. If it wasn't for the fact that Scn is a criminal organization which rivals La Cosa Nostra for ruthlessness I don't think they should lose their exemption as long as religions in general are exempt.

Thanks for expounding. I would be interested in your commentary on Alex Gibney's OpEd piece in the LA Times if you'd be willing.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0412-gibney-scientology-20150412-story.html#page=1

 

[arcxcauseblows]

yep that's the cycle... i'd call it a straight down and vertical suicide dive more than a dwindling spiral, god it's so damn embarrassing to remember i used to actually believe we were a rational and brilliant uptone group who were saving mankind...

nice knowing you scientology, keep using that lrh pr tech, cause as you know, he's the only source, with the only workable tech on the planet...

AIM FOR THE BUSHES!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q86Rn4jETVk

 

[cleared cannibal]

Thanks for expounding. I would be interested in your commentary on Alex Gibney's OpEd piece in the LA Times if you'd be willing.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0412-gibney-scientology-20150412-story.html#page=1

I agree 100% with the article. I realized that what I meant was not clear in my posts and I am not sure it was to me until I read the article. It's not that I don't think the exempt status should be repealed but I don't think the primary source for this should be from exes at least publicly as they can always be branded bitter ,defrocked,etc. What I mean is someone with a possible ax to grind. These people are far more valuable telling their stories and if the run of the mill WOG starts to connect they will start demanded things like the tax exempt status. It should be self evident that exes want the exempt status revoked without even verbalizing it. I think we only disagree on tactics and not the goal.

I really feel that Scn is more vulnerable now from lack of staff and to a lesser extent public,especially at the class IV org level, than funding issues. It takes a certain amount of people to even keep up appearances . This is pure speculation but I think before the COS folds it will abandon the ideal org program and public will have to go to the now larger orgs,such as FLAG, for services. I am not sure we haven't already seen this in LA. It sure will be interesting to see how they spin this in a positive light. Think how much cash inflow would come selling all but 4-6 orgs world wide. I think this will happen when the orgs begin to be a cash drain instead of an income source and this will happen when can't pay operating expenses. I don't believe we are all that far away from this in many, perhaps as many as half of the class IV orgs now. A lot of this is based on only my observations at my local org so I may be way off.

The loss of exemption would sure be another big nail in the coffin but I just don't see it happening now and I think our energies are better spent else where and just make sure it mentioned enough that it isn't totally forgotten.

 

[Sindy]

I agree 100% with the article. I realized that what I meant was not clear in my posts and I am not sure it was to me until I read the article. It's not that I don't think the exempt status should be repealed but I don't think the primary source for this should be from exes at least publicly as they can always be branded bitter ,defrocked,etc. What I mean is someone with a possible ax to grind. These people are far more valuable telling their stories and if the run of the mill WOG starts to connect they will start demanded things like the tax exempt status. It should be self evident that exes want the exempt status revoked without even verbalizing it. I think we only disagree on tactics and not the goal.

I really feel that Scn is more vulnerable now from lack of staff and to a lesser extent public,especially at the class IV org level, than funding issues. It takes a certain amount of people to even keep up appearances . This is pure speculation but I think before the COS folds it will abandon the ideal org program and public will have to go to the now larger orgs,such as FLAG, for services. I am not sure we haven't already seen this in LA. It sure will be interesting to see how they spin this in a positive light. Think how much cash inflow would come selling all but 4-6 orgs world wide. I think this will happen when the orgs begin to be a cash drain instead of an income source and this will happen when can't pay operating expenses. I don't believe we are all that far away from this in many, perhaps as many as half of the class IV orgs now. A lot of this is based on only my observations at my local org so I may be way off.

The loss of exemption would sure be another big nail in the coffin but I just don't see it happening now and I think our energies are better spent else where and just make sure it mentioned enough that it isn't totally forgotten.

Sure. Great post. Thanks.

So what are your thoughts on the Ideal Org program in relation to them selling all these buildings that are now choking them? MANY people gave everything they had to those buildings. They've second mortgaged their homes, taken out huge loans, given away college and retirement funds.

That would be a lot of very angry people. Do they get their money back? That seems like a mass law suit. That's a swindle of epic proportions. I'd be interested to hear you thoughts on the Ideal Org scam.

Frankly, I think it's their biggest problem and a catastrophe in the making. I think Miscavige (along with Cruise as an accessory) bit off way more than he could chew in his straight up and vertical, run-away train paradigm that is now backfiring on him because he made very poor business decisions. This is easy to do when you're using someone else's money.

 

[Northern Shewolf]

Cleared Cannibal: your 'run of the mill wogs' are us... Wolves who are not US citizens, and I have done all I could writing this week upward, so far, of 223 both emails and hard copy snail mails to studio heads and publicists, agents, all I can find....I am on a mission, and it is all fine and dandy to let these poor excuses for a religious group go on rampages which, and I concede your point, is to their total disadvantage, I still believe that pressure exerted from outside $ciloonery will have an effect.
Mind you, I chose to go after as big as poss. Hollywood figures and use consumer power to make my point: DO NOT USE TALENT THAT HAS NO MORAL CHARACTER.
Just my small contrib.
I should hope that others will follow suit.

 

[Churchill]

I love the title of this thread!

I am sanguine about Scientology being mortally wounded, but they are tenacious, fanatical, and not bound by the constraints of either law or decency.

Critics should not let up, and not become overconfident. Keep speaking the truth and writing it so that others will know

Scientology is always​ worse than you think.

 

[Terril park]

CO$ is already dead. The further attacks on members re Going Clear
will kill them more.

Thus speaks the Oracle. [ moi] in this case.

 

[Churchill]

Scientology is always​ worse than you think.

 

[Sindy]

Cleared Cannibal: your 'run of the mill wogs' are us... Wolves who are not US citizens, and I have done all I could writing this week upward, so far, of 223 both emails and hard copy snail mails to studio heads and publicists, agents, all I can find....I am on a mission, and it is all fine and dandy to let these poor excuses for a religious group go on rampages which, and I concede your point, is to their total disadvantage, I still believe that pressure exerted from outside $ciloonery will have an effect.
Mind you, I chose to go after as big as poss. Hollywood figures and use consumer power to make my point: DO NOT USE TALENT THAT HAS NO MORAL CHARACTER.
Just my small contrib.
I should hope that others will follow suit.[/QUOTE]

I will. Thanks for what you are doing.

 

[Sindy]

CO$ is already dead. The further attacks on members re Going Clear
will kill them more.

Thus speaks the Oracle. [ moi] in this case.

I agree that it's already dead. Question for all...If critics let up, would it bounce back?

 

[Churchill]

I agree that it's already dead. Question for all...If critics let up, would it bounce back?

The question is, "Are you willing to risk it?'

 

[MrNobody]

I agree that it's already dead. Question for all...If critics let up, would it bounce back?

Since ideas can not be killed, it probably would.

IOW: The price of freedom is constant awareness. ( quote by whoever it was who said it first)