Draconian mind control Ls

[PirateAndBum]

Veda, Gerry Armstrong is a scofflaw not because I say so.

Gerry is a scofflaw because a California court says so.

Gerry is a fugitive from Justice. He was given a jail sentence by a California court for Contempt of Court.

He then fled to Canada. Hence, he is a scofflaw.


****
Veda, in your true fashion as an intellectually dishonest Armstongite propagandist you are attacking me, and have attacked me in the past, for pointing out the lies and contradictions in the so-called Armstrong Contract.

Example:

As we saw in his recent travels to Russia, Gerry is not above embellishing his own resume to the Russian media so that they will tell several tales on his behalf. In this screenshot below, we see the lies:

1. Armstrong claims that he was the "Ex Legal Officer of the Scientology Organization." Why did Gerry want Pravda to think he is a Lawyer who at one time was the "Legal Officer" for the entire Scientology Organization! This is a significant and misleading misrepresentation on Armstrong's behalf.

2. Gerry told the Russian reporter than Scientology can "hunt him down, and without qualms, take his life." This must mean that Gerry lives a life of danger speaking out against Scientology while Scientology assassins stalk him so that they can take his life without qualms! This is also patently untrue. Scientology cannot hunt down Armstrong and take his life.

3. Gerry told the Russian reporter that his coreligionists declared him to be an outlaw. This is also untrue. A California Court declared Gerry in contempt of court. A California Court imposed a jail sentence on Armstrong and so Gerry fled to Canada. Gerry's "outlaw" status is with the State of California.

4. Who do Gerry's misrepresentations and resume embellishments serve and why?

/////

These aren't lies Mr Swift. You are spinning them as lies. It is quite clear.

1. What is your beef with him being the Legal Officer? That was a post. That you choose to dub-in that it is a claim that he is a lawyer is just that, your dub-in. You should know better what a post title means. Are you saying he did not have this post? I see no lie by Gerry.

2. What I see in this fragment of the article you posted is a statement that aligns with Hubbard's Fair Game policy. It is not a quote from Gerry. It is the author's statement of his understanding of how Fair Game could be used to harm him. Again no lie from Gerry.

3. You are calling him an outlaw are you not? That the Court considers him an outlaw as well does not make the statement a lie. So this too is not a lie on Gerry's part.

I don't know what your problem is with Gerry. What has he ever done to you? He had the balls to stand up and try to protect himself from the Co$ and in doing so provided the most damning documentation of Hubbard's LIES. Is that your beef, that he exposed L Ron Hubbard's LIES and his sick AFFIRMATIONS?

4. So one might ask this question of you. Who are you trying to benefit with your campaign Mr Swift and why?

 

[Lermanet_com]

And during this call one of them mentioned something about financial support, this was for help handling Caroline...in reply I posted this one and this.. and then S goes after Gerry..

In one of the old samurai movies, there is a scene I wish I could paste here. The shogun goes after the bad guys, knocks one down, and then turns to his Samurai and says in a very stern Shogun voice: "FINISH THEM" ....

 

[Purple Rain]

Thanks for the information. I Googled RFP - thanks, I had no idea! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_proposal

Are you the new ESMB Ethics Officer t_o_p? Am I cleared to post here?

There will be no reasonableness! Scientology is evil. Any "Scientologist" (by my definition alone) who dares show their face on this board is FAIR GAME. Do your lowers and apply to rejoin the group. If you're here, you're here on the same terms as the rest of us. Lol!

 

[PirateAndBum]

Karen has declined to back up her statement that the L's have been changed by DM.

I like you Karen but I don't respect that stance. People can SAY anything.

I'll give you a few examples.

Back in 94 while attending the IAS convention on the Freewinds, a certain senior senior Scn executive took an interest in me and we went to my room and he gave me a very talented blow job.

I met LRH in DC back in 1975. He told me Scientology was all a big scam to enrich him.



So I'll have to assume that the L's have NOT been changed. They are running the same processes that they always have.

 

[Caroline]

And during this call one of them mentioned something about financial support, this was for help handling Caroline...in reply I posted this one and this.. and then S goes after Gerry..

In one of the old samurai movies, there is a scene I wish I could paste here. The shogun goes after the bad guys, knocks one down, and then turns to his Samurai and says in a very stern Shogun voice: "FINISH THEM" ....

Wow, Arnie, thanks. Please let me know more about this call. If it doesn't make sense to post the details on ESMB, please send me an e-mail (caroline[at]carolineletkeman.org).

 

[Anonycat]

There will be no reasonableness! Scientology is evil. Any "Scientologist" (by my definition alone) who dares show their face on this board is FAIR GAME. Do your lowers and apply to rejoin the group. If you're here, you're here on the same terms as the rest of us. Lol!

I was already KR'd here and did my re-tread and amends. I'm always getting assigned lower conditions here

 

[ethercat]

So please, no more <3 ElCon here, Marty's blog or Rinders or Steve Hall or FZ is a better place to do so.

I think we have one here who'd like to be a moderator.

inb4OSA!!!

Too late.

 

[John P.]

Holy crap. Hubbard can't stop making up stupid shit, even for a second. This quote is a brilliant example of full-on crazy in action:

THE POWER (defined as light-year kilotons per microsecond) OF A THETAN IS MEASURED BY NOTHING ELSE THAN THE DISTANCE (defined as spherical spatial length) AROUND HIM IN HIS ENVIRONMENT THAT HE CAN CONTROL.​

What exactly is a "light-year kiloton per microsecond"? What on Earth is that measuring? Distance? Speed? Momentum? This sounds like the sort of bizarre word salad one gets from a psychotic who used to be intelligent before he lost it. I'm thinking of someone like Ted ("Unabomber") Kaczynski, who was a math Ph.D. before he went over the edge. It sure sounds like bloviation from an 8 year old who's trying to sound smart, bragging that his starship goes eleventy-seven bajillion light-year kilotons per microsecond.

And of course, I can't even begin to understand what "spherical spatial length" is, unless it's an attempt to try to show people that he, Hubbard, alone, understands the curvature of the space-time continuum. I am convinced that the only reason people didn't call bullshit on Hubbard is that he never once took questions in his "lectures." Otherwise plenty of people with even a fragment of a decent college education would have stood up and called bullshit on him, sort of like fellow pulp writer Frank Gruber did in 1934 (in a story in Jon Atack's book):

During one ... session Ron began to relate some of his own adventures. He had been in the United States Marines for seven years, he had been an explorer on the upper Amazon for four years, he'd been a white hunter in Africa for three years... after listening for a couple of hours, I said, "Ron, you're eighty-four years old, aren't you?" He let out a yelp, "What the hell are you talking about? You know I'm only twenty-six."

"Well, you were in the Marines seven years, you were a civil engineer for six years, you spent four years in Brazil, three in Africa, you barn-stormed with your own flying circus for six years... I've just added up all the years you did this and that and it comes to eighty-four years .... " Ron blew his stack.
​

No wonder the punishment functions in Scientology consume such a significant part of the organizational bandwidth: one halfway intelligent question and the whole thing would have crumbled.

 

[Anonycat]

Holy crap.

No wonder the punishment functions in Scientology consume such a significant part of the organizational bandwidth: one halfway intelligent question and the whole thing would have crumbled.

Having an open mind is even PTS. Like everything which could potentially save you from the cult.

 

[Purple Rain]

I was already KR'd here and did my re-tread and amends. I'm always getting assigned lower conditions here

Me too! And they don't even have toilet paper or dishwashing liquid down here in the galley! How am I supposed to un-grease my pots??!

 

[Terril park]

Karen has declined to back up her statement that the L's have been changed by DM.

I like you Karen but I don't respect that stance. People can SAY anything.

I'll give you a few examples.

Back in 94 while attending the IAS convention on the Freewinds, a certain senior senior Scn executive took an interest in me and we went to my room and he gave me a very talented blow job.

I met LRH in DC back in 1975. He told me Scientology was all a big scam to enrich him.



So I'll have to assume that the L's have NOT been changed. They are running the same processes that they always have.

All comments on recent L's in COS I have seen have been very negative.

The new def of an F/N would destroy there workability. And they deal with
very heavy areas.

There may have been other alterations also.

 

[PirateAndBum]

All comments on recent L's in COS I have seen have been very negative.

The new def of an F/N would destroy there workability. And they deal with
very heavy areas.

There may have been other alterations also.

Oh come now Terril, recent comment from the COS on L's? You mean comments from bitter defrocked apostate SPs.

F/N alteration smalteration. Sorry but that's not what Karen said (at least I don't interpret her statement as such.)

She said the L's have been altered by DM.

Blaming failure on 3 swings requirement is really a pretty shallow excuse, not that it isn't an alteration of the definition of a floating needle, BUT if you think that the L's processes produced fleeting little measly F/Ns that only last a second or two that an auditor would now miss I can assure you that that is completely bogus. The processes are powerful. They produce floating tone-arms, not little powder puffs of relief that last for less than 3 swings of a needle. So there's got to be more to it than this 3 swing excuse. An F/N wouldn't even get to the examiner if your theory is correct.

You should know, you've done L11.

I can see a possible argument that things would be taken up that should not be taken up due to this stupid 3-swing F/N crap.

Karen doesn't want to discuss it. Karen, is it because you consider that you are still is bound by confidentiality agreements with the Co$ and don't want to risk being sued? Or you think the L's data should be kept secret for some reason?

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

All comments on recent L's in COS I have seen have been very negative.

The new def of an F/N would destroy there workability. And they deal with
very heavy areas.

There may have been other alterations also.

If they could indeed be classified as 'Very Negative' that would be a step in the right direction, since someone was finally able to make some sense out of them.

 

[Veda]

Oh come now Terril, recent comment from the COS on L's? You mean comments from bitter defrocked apostate SPs.

F/N alteration smalteration. Sorry but that's not what Karen said (at least I don't interpret her statement as such.)

She said the L's have been altered by DM.

Blaming failure on 3 swings requirement is really a pretty shallow excuse, not that it isn't an alteration of the definition of a floating needle, BUT if you think that the L's processes produced fleeting little measly F/Ns that only last a second or two that an auditor would now miss I can assure you that that is completely bogus. The processes are powerful. They produce floating tone-arms, not little powder puffs of relief that last for less than 3 swings of a needle. So there's got to be more to it than this 3 swing excuse. An F/N wouldn't even get to the examiner if your theory is correct.

You should know, you've done L11.

I can see a possible argument that things would be taken up that should not be taken up due to this stupid 3-swing F/N crap.

Karen doesn't want to discuss it. Karen, is it because you consider that you are still is bound by confidentiality agreements with the Co$ and don't want to risk being sued? Or you think the L's data should be kept secret for some reason?

Hubbard was the one who, in 1978, changed the definition of an FN: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16164-Rhythmic-Sweep-of-the-Dial

As for other changes, many seem to have also come from Hubbard, particularly by way of 'Advices':

According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology', and regarding six month sec checks:

"...this bulletin was effectively cancelled by LRH himself... that's where it all started. All these actions were taken to increase income. It is the same with the six month sec checks...

"But I want to make it clear that the whole idea came from LRH not from Miscavige. Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders...

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..."

'The Ever Changing Tech of Scientology' By Jesse Prince: http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/prince20000718.html

 

[Gib]

Hubbard was the one who, in 1978, changed the definition of an FN: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16164-Rhythmic-Sweep-of-the-Dial

As for other changes, many seem to have also come from Hubbard, particularly by way of 'Advices':

According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology', and regarding six month sec checks:

"...this bulletin was effectively cancelled by LRH himself... that's where it all started. All these actions were taken to increase income. It is the same with the six month sec checks...

"But I want to make it clear that the whole idea came from LRH not from Miscavige. Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders...

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..."

'The Ever Changing Tech of Scientology' By Jesse Prince: http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/prince20000718.html

see that is what cracks me up. Why couldn't the hubbard be more precise? It's supposed to be the first science of the mind.

so I read stories by dan koon and others somewhere on the internet, about how int management worked forever and looked up every word to figure out what is an F/N. Well, jesus already, the fuk'in hubbard couldn't define it precisely?
I read those folks looked up 'rhythmic" in every known dictionary. WTF. :smoking:

There are so many other things the hubb said that you go "huh".

It's crazy.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Karen has declined to back up her statement that the L's have been changed by DM. ...

The single most important aspect of any auditing is not the list being run or specific commands delivered in a session but the manner in which such are delivered. Auditor attitude and treatment of the pc matters far more than the specific material being delivered. ARCX a pc and watch what happens. As such, the apparent general change in the behavioral climate and attitudes within the church since the '80s is more than sufficient to account for the observable decline in effectiveness of their "professional" auditing.

Most of the best auditors left 30 years ago. Each year the number of those remaining within the church declines. Training of their successors for decades now has been conducted within a cultural climate of increasing paranoia, social alienation, and micromanagement. The tendency for decades now has evidently been to encourage rote procedures and discourage the treatment of pcs as the individuals they are.

Such factors taken together go a long way towards suggesting an explanation for any apparent discrepancy in auditing results.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

a good example is the shaking out your hands till they are loose and floppy before a can squeeze - it was SOP (standard operating proceedure) for years - it's in the old school meter drill book - that or emeter essentials - the one compiled by MSH back in the 60's. That was standard tech. And yet, Hubbard has a snit, what was it, in the 80's? Says it's gross out tech. Dude. Really? I think he was loosing his grip (pun intended) Mimsey

 

[CommunicatorIC]

The single most important aspect of any auditing is not the list being run or specific commands delivered in a session but the manner in which such are delivered. Auditor attitude and treatment of the pc matters far more than the specific material being delivered. ARCX a pc and watch what happens. As such, the apparent general change in the behavioral climate and attitudes within the church since the '80s is more than sufficient to account for the observable decline in effectiveness of their "professional" auditing.

Most of the best auditors left 30 years ago. Each year the number of those remaining within the church declines. Training of their successors for decades now has been conducted within a cultural climate of increasing paranoia, social alienation, and micromanagement. The tendency for decades now has evidently been to encourage rote procedures and discourage the treatment of pcs as the individuals they are.

Such factors taken together go a long way towards suggesting an explanation for any apparent discrepancy in auditing results.


Mark A. Baker

Not buying it.

We are not talking about a mere "apparent discrepancy in auditing results."

We are talking about something, the Ls, going from being beneficial and good under Ron to "mind control" under DM.

So the argument is that precisely the same questions, commands and processes (as written) go from being beneficial and good under Ron to "mind control" under DM because, and only because, of the "manner in which such [were] delivered?"

Sorry, no.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Well - isn't that the same arguement about nots and Mayo nots - the only difference being any reference to Sr. C/S mayo in the hcobs was removed? Mimsey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... We are talking about something, the Ls, going from being beneficial and good under Ron to "mind control" under DM. ...

Nope. Ron was not really central to this matter. He most likely gave the orders which initially brought about the present state of affairs, but what has made the difference is the enforced nature of obedience which has become prevalent within the present church. It's not about which personality is at the top, it's a question of the character of the institutional culture.

The auditors trained early on often had a very wide independent streak. That's true of the L auditors, too. Famous names from the past include David Mayo, Otto Roos, Merril Mayo, and many other first class auditors who did not take kindly to management interference with training and auditing. Many of these auditor's from the old days were more apt to consider the welfare of their pcs as primary. That is certainly true of the best ones. That's the way they initially trained and operated. Many of them either sought to avoid the excesses of the early CMO or sought to minimize the impact of management directives on their pcs.

A major goal of the reorganization of the '80s was apparently to crush any spirit of independence which remained in the church. That seemed to have been hubbard's goal for quite some time given the emphasis he placed on control and his own role within the church. The '80s reorganization essentially completed that task. Since hubbard's death it has continued in much the same vein with only the name at the top having changed.

At the time of the destruction of the Mission Network the cream left. The ones who remained after the '80s were precisely those auditors who were most willing to put management directives before the well being of their pcs. That is not a good basis under which auditing is to proceed.

For much of hubbard's life the community of scientologists was at least a partly independent "motley crew". It slowly evolved under the increasing influence of the Sea Org into a more uniform culture. That process was not completed until the '80s. And shortly thereafter hubbard died. He may have instigated the process, but miscavige was the prime beneficiary.

And most importantly, those who maintained involvement with the church over the last 30 years have effectively acquiesced throughout that time to complete domination by church management, unlike many of the earlier scientologists. Those who have been involved for anything less than the last 25 years have never known the subject in any other way.


Mark A. Baker