Draconian mind control Ls
- Thread starter Veda
- Start date
Lermanet_com
Gold Meritorious Patron
You and Gerry have earned my respect the old fashioned way..
I know all of the real old guard suffered trauma in this war.
We built our reputations exposing $cientology's evils, while expressing gratitute and respect for those who dared to STAND against $cientology in the past, who also provided a shoulder, a beach head, upon which to stand to continue the quest, NOT by tearing down some fellow brother in arms in order to make our place at the table.
And It didn't make sense to post here, and I didn't take notes, frankly I was in a bit of shock... regretting that I had not more effectively addressed the destructive conduct of certain poseurs long ago,
Arnie Lerma
Also see old TheHill.com article
Last edited:
Terril park
Sponsor
Good points. I am not an L's auditor, but I believe not every question on L's are of such power.
Along with the three swing F/N there has been intimidation of auditors such that they are
afraid to do any mistake as the penalties are gruesome. This would I assume result on more attention on the meter than the PC , more robotic beingness, less effective results where the wins are less, and maybe the three swing thing becomes important.
And I don't know whatever else has been altered. One thing it seems is how the PC is regarded.
This may be expressed as " out ethics consumer", at best. This in itself could damage results.
In recent times reports from Flag byauditors who used to work there and those who have done
service there are that its an extremely unfriendly place. I have heard of many who were
very disapointed with Flag services and came to the FZ to get fixed up.
Whatever they do there dosn't seem to be working.
Below some humour which seems to give some of the flavour.
The $ec-Checker’s Code
1. I promise not to evaluate for the pre-crim except when he doesn’t agree with the C/S or the interrogators.
2. I promise not to invalidate the pre-crim’s case or gains as long as he is cooperating.
3. I promise to administer only standard tech to a pre-crim as currently interpreted by the RTC.
4. I promise to keep all appointments once made except when:
a) the folder is lost,
b) the folder admin was sent to the RPF,
c) the pre-crim’s withholds necessitate a comm ev,
d) the the pc is declared,
e) the pc thinks the prices are too high.
f) the pc’s bank balance is zero.
5. I promise not to process a pre-crim who has had more than 4 hours of sleep or is not physically tired, abused, or dead after 3:00am.
6. I promise not to process a pre-crim who is improperly fed unless he is crew on rice and beans.
7. I promise not to permit a frequent change of interrogators except when the pc’s observations are causing him to cognite on what’s going on.
8. I promise not to sympathize with the pre-crim except when he natters about squirrels and psychiatrists.
9. I promise never to permit the pc to end the session on his own independent decision, but to end the independence of the pc.
10. I promise never to walk off from a pc during a session without the agreement of the other 3 interrogators.
11. I promise never to get angry with a pre-crim unless he says there’s nothing there, refuses to cognite, denies he is criminal, or FNs a list of questions.
12. I promise to run every question well beyond it’s floating needle.
13. I promise never to run any one question beyond it’s floating needle, but to run the whole list into the ground.
14. I promise to grant beingness to the pre-crim as long as he confesses and cognites on his criminality.
15. I promise never to mix the processes of $cienchology with other practices than standard gestapo and implanting techniques.
16. I promise to maintain 5-way communication with the pre-crim and the other 3 interrogators.
17. I promise to enter comments, expressions, snide remarks, accusations and enturbulance into a session as needed to keep the pre-crim sufficiently intimidated.
18. I promise to continue to give the pre-crim the question as long as protest reads are needed to flatten the pre-crim.
19. I promise not to let a pre-crim run a command that hasn’t been thoroughly implanted into the pc with suppressive word-clearing.
20. I promise not to apologize, indicate bypassed charge, or acknowledge any C/S or auditor mistakes as may be imagined by the pre-crim.
21. I promise to estimate the current case state of a pre-crim only by standard case supervisor opinions and third party, and not to diverge simply because of some imagined innocence in the case.
22. I promise never to waste the secrets of a pre-crim divulged in session that may be used for punishment, character defamation or blackmail.
23. I promise to see that any fee received for $ec-checking is only refunded following a pre-signed statement refusing acceptance of any such refund.
24. I promise not to advocate $ec-checking to cure illness or treat the insane, knowing well that it was only intended for monetary gain.
25. I promise to cooperate fully with the legal organization of Dying-antics and $cienchology as developed by David mcSavage in safeguarding the ethical use and practice of the subject from the hands of those who would use it to clear the planet according to the basics of standard tech.
26. I promise to refuse to permit any being to be physically injured, violently damaged, operated on or killed in the name of “psychiatry” or any other practice except for $cienchology.
27. I promise not to permit sexual liberties or violation of the mentally unsound, except at the highest executive levels.
28. I promise to refuse to admit to the ranks of practitioners or interrogators any being who is humane.
This is NOT OK !!!!
Gold Meritorious Patron
Come on Mark, you've never been to Flag for service in this or any other decade and you have no idea what the auditor quality there is.
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
I did L11 & 12 back in 93 before DM had really gotten to mess with F/Ns.
Rick Alexander did L11 and he was superb. A very calm and friendly man.
On to L 12 and Rick could not do mine because he was only a Class 11 at the time.
I got a guy named Alan something. He was very uptight and a total control freak, I did not feel very comfortable in his presence. So I told the D of P and I was switched to Norman Herring and Alan was sent to cramming. Norman like Rick was a super good auditor. They both knew their shit cold.
So even as late as 93 things were still chugging along at flag. I hung out with many others that were similarly happy with the L's they were getting. Suzzette Hubbard was getting auditing too and she hung out with us just like any other person.
My last auditing at flag in 02 was not very good. The F/N thing was in play there but hadn't been pushed out to lower orgs. My auditor was clearly nervous about making mistakes (a Class VI intern, previously a CL VIII but retreading) They had the hidden video and all installed and it did piss me off having to wait for the F/Ns to be called.
Much is made of making robots using GAT. I don't see the drills as such doing that. You do need to know to do Y when X happens. Bigger problem was the robotic TRs IMO
I agree that the environment of late is quite hostile and works in the exact opposite direction of the supposed goal.
Karen used the words "draconian mind control Ls" - sadly she isn't going to elaborate.
Rick Alexander did L11 and he was superb. A very calm and friendly man.
On to L 12 and Rick could not do mine because he was only a Class 11 at the time.
I got a guy named Alan something. He was very uptight and a total control freak, I did not feel very comfortable in his presence. So I told the D of P and I was switched to Norman Herring and Alan was sent to cramming. Norman like Rick was a super good auditor. They both knew their shit cold.
So even as late as 93 things were still chugging along at flag. I hung out with many others that were similarly happy with the L's they were getting. Suzzette Hubbard was getting auditing too and she hung out with us just like any other person.
My last auditing at flag in 02 was not very good. The F/N thing was in play there but hadn't been pushed out to lower orgs. My auditor was clearly nervous about making mistakes (a Class VI intern, previously a CL VIII but retreading) They had the hidden video and all installed and it did piss me off having to wait for the F/Ns to be called.
Much is made of making robots using GAT. I don't see the drills as such doing that. You do need to know to do Y when X happens. Bigger problem was the robotic TRs IMO
I agree that the environment of late is quite hostile and works in the exact opposite direction of the supposed goal.
Karen used the words "draconian mind control Ls" - sadly she isn't going to elaborate.
Terril park
Sponsor
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
No I don't think I've done that for her.
Terril park
Sponsor
Was your experience Draconion in any way?
JBWriter
Happy Sapien
Wow, you're way ahead of me, Emma.
I can't even find Draconia on the world map...
... and Wikipedia doesn't even give a hint as to why the people of Draconia are such hard-asses. :confused2:
**JB. (**Thought folks might need a wee grin about now. YMMV.)
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
I've never had a "draconian" experience while sitting in session.
I have in ethics cycles. From seniors when I was on staff. From IAS and Bridge Pubs regs. But never in a session.
BardoThodol
Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, let me tell you you have.
Let's redefine draconian so you'll accept the intended concept.
Governments have been killing babies for centuries. Babies are innocents who don't deserve such harsh and severe treatment.
You are part of a country that has a government. Killing babies is draconian, and because governments kill babies, being a member of a society with a government makes you a knowing or unknowing accessory to draconian measures, even if your particular government is only tangentially involved in baby destruction.
Just because you're sitting in a session scratching your ass doesn't mean that some government somewhere isn't right then killing a baby.
Draconian, henceforth, will be defined as being a knowing or unknowing participant in extremely harsh or severe laws or measures, which includes, amongst other high crimes, killing babies.
Bang with the gavel! Next case!
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Quote: ". . . Many of these auditor's from the old days were . . . "
Coming from you, Mark? Surely not.
What? I can't make an error? :confused2:
It's a message board, not a doctoral thesis, Leon.
Mark A. Baker
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
I've known quite a few auditors, former flag auditors included. On the whole and as a group I trust the old time auditors (prior to '80) a great deal more than I do those of a more recent church vintage. To me the difference is obvious. Not all were equally good of course, but disproportionately and as a group they were by far superior in their treatment of pcs.
As to flag, I never wanted to go there. And yes, that was also fully intentional on my part. NEVER get auditing from someone whom you are not comfortable receiving the service. I've never considered the Sea Org to be conducive of trust. My only tech experience with them confirmed that mightily.
Mark A. Baker
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
For some reason I'm feeling a bit mindfucked after reading this post.....
Big Farmer
Patron with Honors
Do you drive a Steamroller?
Student of Trinity
Silver Meritorious Patron
If people are going to start defining 'draconian', maybe it's worth mentioning that the term does have a useful, precise meaning. It refers specifically to laws, or to legal or justice systems. A draconian law is one that is overly harsh, imposing disproportionately heavy punishments for minor crimes. The word comes from the name of this ancient Greek guy, Draco, who drew up the first written legal code for Athens. Under it, practically everything was punishable by death.
Draco's name is still an adjective all these centuries later because laws being too heavy-handed seems to be a permanent issue. Every generation or two there's a move to lower the boom on crime, and it often produces ridiculously overweighted punishments. So it's well worth keeping 'draconian' in its specific meaning, and not just letting it degenerate into the seventy-seventh way of saying 'bad'.
Draco's name is still an adjective all these centuries later because laws being too heavy-handed seems to be a permanent issue. Every generation or two there's a move to lower the boom on crime, and it often produces ridiculously overweighted punishments. So it's well worth keeping 'draconian' in its specific meaning, and not just letting it degenerate into the seventy-seventh way of saying 'bad'.
Idle Morgue
Gold Meritorious Patron
Here is what I saw when Jeff Mintz tried to get me to do the L's! He sent me videos of newly completed L public. One guy I thought was losing it - he was not looking sane to me - nervous and his waxing enthusiasm looked more like he was trying to convince himself that he was now a super hero. I thought these "success stories" right after they finish are not to be believed. I told Jeff Mintz that I would need to meet these people in one year - see their bank accounts and meet with their families to see how the L's helped them. I told him I had no interest in doing the L's - just never saw anyone completing them impressive. He was not happy with me. He stopped calling when I told them I would need a money back gaurantee that I would have a life better than the one I had....because they promise a new life! My life was good - did not need the $100,000 gamble of mind fucking L's.
I was shaken by the videos and it further convinced me I had no use for the L's! I made up my mind I would never tell anyone - but I never met anyone who did them that impressed me.
One 30 year old woman went to Fraud Scam Base to do her L's. She put it all on credit cards and re-financed her home. She came back and acted like an asshole. She lost her home, her job and her husband. She is a mess!
Another 50 year old man went to the Scam Base to do all three L's. He came back and looked like a Holocaust Victim. He divorced his wife - quit his job - he shaved his head and looked really strange. He moved to another City and he is still really strange. He got a new job in the same line of work - still going at it 3 years after his L's. He told me when he got back that the L's give you a new life. Wow - they sure did!
He was a trust fund guy - living off his family wealth - and he is really quite nuts!
The L's - they will give you a new life for $100,000. No promises of a better life...but certainly a new one!
I was shaken by the videos and it further convinced me I had no use for the L's! I made up my mind I would never tell anyone - but I never met anyone who did them that impressed me.
One 30 year old woman went to Fraud Scam Base to do her L's. She put it all on credit cards and re-financed her home. She came back and acted like an asshole. She lost her home, her job and her husband. She is a mess!
Another 50 year old man went to the Scam Base to do all three L's. He came back and looked like a Holocaust Victim. He divorced his wife - quit his job - he shaved his head and looked really strange. He moved to another City and he is still really strange. He got a new job in the same line of work - still going at it 3 years after his L's. He told me when he got back that the L's give you a new life.
Wow - they sure did! He was a trust fund guy - living off his family wealth - and he is really quite nuts! The L's - they will give you a new life for $100,000. No promises of a better life...but certainly a new one!
phenomanon
Canyon
omg, is Jeff Mintz regging? Is he an FSM? Is he in the SO?
I only ever met one L's completion & he looked like he'd had too much coffee. All wide eyed & agitated. I'll never forget what he told me. He said the the "L" he'd done had completely removed all guilt from his track, both past & future, and that he could punch me in the face right now & not feel guilty.
I was like WTF?
I was like WTF?
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