Draconian mind control Ls

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I only ever met one L's completion & he looked like he'd had too much coffee. All wide eyed & agitated. I'll never forget what he told me. He said the the "L" he'd done had completely removed all guilt from his track, both past & future, and that he could punch me in the face right now & not feel guilty.

I was like WTF?

A Nietzschean success story if I ever heard one!

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Free Being Me]

Offered With Gratitude
[video=youtube;gXDMoiEkyuQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXDMoiEkyuQ[/video]

 

[The_Fixer]

If people are going to start defining 'draconian', maybe it's worth mentioning that the term does have a useful, precise meaning. It refers specifically to laws, or to legal or justice systems. A draconian law is one that is overly harsh, imposing disproportionately heavy punishments for minor crimes. The word comes from the name of this ancient Greek guy, Draco, who drew up the first written legal code for Athens. Under it, practically everything was punishable by death.

Draco's name is still an adjective all these centuries later because laws being too heavy-handed seems to be a permanent issue. Every generation or two there's a move to lower the boom on crime, and it often produces ridiculously overweighted punishments. So it's well worth keeping 'draconian' in its specific meaning, and not just letting it degenerate into the seventy-seventh way of saying 'bad'.

Wasn't Draco on Harry Potter?

 

[BardoThodol]

For some reason I'm feeling a bit mindfucked after reading this post.....

I can only hope you climaxed.

 

[Idle Morgue]

omg, is Jeff Mintz regging? Is he an FSM? Is he in the SO?

Yes - he is / was the regg for the L's. He is in the Sea Org. I am not sure if he still is though. One never knows because policy of this religion forbids anyone telling anyone else anything about their status or the cult. The only thing Jeff can talk about now is the L's!

 

[phenomanon]

Yes - he is / was the regg for the L's. He is in the Sea Org. I am not sure if he still is though. One never knows because policy of this religion forbids anyone telling anyone else anything about their status or the cult. The only thing Jeff can talk about now is the L's!

I remember Jeff from LA.
I also remember his daughter Ali. He had Ali at the Flag landbase when she was about 12 years old. She was wearing a SO uniform and being called " Sir".
She talked to her Grandma one day and told her that she couldn't call her from the Org because they had been unable to pay the 'phone bills, and the landbase 'phones were 'down'.
Her Grandma flew to the Landbase and "liberated" Ali. Flew off with her. LMAO.
I dunno if Ali ever went back or not.
That was in the 80's or early 90's.
I heard more recently that Ali had married and had gotten her Husband on the Purif. So I'm guessing that she didn't leave the Fold.
Her Mom, Chata, who was married to Jeff, and others of Ali's family are still "churchies" altho as far as I know, haven't done any services in 25 years.

 

[Daisy]

First time I went to flag, I ran into 3 people I knew. Robin selmier, mari perry and mike scandling. They were mid an L. I felt so below them. We sat and watched the sunset one time and they were so one with the universe. Well not really but the way they were reacting made me feel that they were so clued into life and I was not getting it.

It's as if they were tripping on something.

 

[Idle Morgue]

First time I went to flag, I ran into 3 people I knew. Robin selmier, mari perry and mike scandling. They were mid an L. I felt so below them. We sat and watched the sunset one time and they were so one with the universe. Well not really but the way they were reacting made me feel that they were so clued into life and I was not getting it.

It's as if they were tripping on something.

Daisy - they were tripping - tripping on the fact that they just spent $100,000 on the L's so they could stare into the sunset and pretend they know something other's who have not done the L's don't.

I know what you mean though - I used to look at the Oat Tea's like that...and I kept looking and looking - got to know a few of them..some of the nuttiest people I ever met! They are Oat Tea alright - cause over their own arrogance!

 

[Abletu]

Is it draconian mind control?

or do you fear the absences of predictable guilt buttons and guilt strings to pull.

total freedom is being free from "the need to".

Guilt buttons and strings are like a two edged sword, they can inhibit and/or they can motivate desired and/or undesired externally driven action.

total beingness is the absent of distance, fear creates space and makes possible unwanted perceived mental and/or physical existences.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

If people are going to start defining 'draconian', maybe it's worth mentioning that the term does have a useful, precise meaning. It refers specifically to laws, or to legal or justice systems. A draconian law is one that is overly harsh, imposing disproportionately heavy punishments for minor crimes. The word comes from the name of this ancient Greek guy, Draco, who drew up the first written legal code for Athens. Under it, practically everything was punishable by death.

Draco's name is still an adjective all these centuries later because laws being too heavy-handed seems to be a permanent issue. Every generation or two there's a move to lower the boom on crime, and it often produces ridiculously overweighted punishments. So it's well worth keeping 'draconian' in its specific meaning, and not just letting it degenerate into the seventy-seventh way of saying 'bad'.

Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!

(Just one minor point of correction. I don't think they were the first written laws in Athens, just the first with very severe punishments)

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Student of Trinity]

(I don't think they were the first written laws in Athens, just the first with very severe punishments)

I didn't think so either, but when I googled to check the spelling of Draco, Wikipedia told me they were — for what that's worth.

 

[Panda Termint]

So, nothing to do with that Malfoy dude or dragons, then?

 

[Abletu]

Is it draconian mind control?

or do you fear the absences of predictable guilt buttons and guilt strings to pull.

total freedom is being free from "the need to".

Guilt buttons and strings are like a two edged sword, they can inhibit and/or they can motivate desired and/or undesired externally driven action.

total beingness is the absent of distance, fear creates space and makes possible unwanted perceived mental and/or physical existences.

Thank you, I mis-understood draconian. Yes this would apply to what PTS/SP detection and handling crap leads to.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Ah, the L's....Back in the 70's I audited a PC who had had all her L's - her left as a SO member was about as nutty as most other SO members. I had no trouble with her as a "PC" but she drove the "org" nuts from her "post"

Around that time and old Class - later 8 OT5 - friend of mine ( died in his late 40's & felt "NOTS" managed to get something going with his body that it didn't intend to that it had no way to approach or fix ) who told me that each of the L's was designed to handle some specific aspect of each one of Rons childrens "case". [ He proved also to be the most reliable & accurate source of information I ever had ]

I knew some people who did all their L's & I saw just absolutely no change in them at all so I decided that was something I would not spend money on. In Clearwater when the DP told me the CS wanted me to do an L .... I said I'd do it when the CS showed me where the L's were on the Grade Chart - end of that discussion. ( Well, at least ONE thing I didn't sucker for ! )

Also remember some guy from texas who went home after his L's & a horse fell on him - not supposed to go PTS after L's ?
Another person I know died of cancer after L's.
Lisa McPherson was dead 3 weeks after L 11

So mixed reults like the rest of it.

I know one guy - pretty damn nutty - who says the L's saved his life - he is still pretty damn nuts.

I only know one person, still in, who swears by the L's - never mind his wife divorced him & he is having troubles in life.

To me, the L's are like the rest of scn - you believe it or you don't but the results are ebtirely subjective.

Oh ,did the dwarf mess 'em even more ? What hasn't he fucked up ?

 

[Terril park]

Ah, the L's....Back in the 70's I audited a PC who had had all her L's - her left as a SO member was about as nutty as most other SO members. I had no trouble with her as a "PC" but she drove the "org" nuts from her "post"

Around that time and old Class - later 8 OT5 - friend of mine ( died in his late 40's & felt "NOTS" managed to get something going with his body that it didn't intend to that it had no way to approach or fix ) who told me that each of the L's was designed to handle some specific aspect of each one of Rons childrens "case". [ He proved also to be the most reliable & accurate source of information I ever had ]

I knew some people who did all their L's & I saw just absolutely no change in them at all so I decided that was something I would not spend money on. In Clearwater when the DP told me the CS wanted me to do an L .... I said I'd do it when the CS showed me where the L's were on the Grade Chart - end of that discussion. ( Well, at least ONE thing I didn't sucker for ! )

Also remember some guy from texas who went home after his L's & a horse fell on him - not supposed to go PTS after L's ?
Another person I know died of cancer after L's.
Lisa McPherson was dead 3 weeks after L 11

So mixed reults like the rest of it.

I know one guy - pretty damn nutty - who says the L's saved his life - he is still pretty damn nuts.

I only know one person, still in, who swears by the L's - never mind his wife divorced him & he is having troubles in life.

To me, the L's are like the rest of scn - you believe it or you don't but the results are ebtirely subjective.

Oh ,did the dwarf mess 'em even more ? What hasn't he fucked up ?

I've heard rumours that Flag L's make people crazy. If they have to use the latest def of a floating needle I can imagine this to be the case.

L's in the FZ are a different kettle of fish. Its generally a safe environment.

L's deal a lot in evil purposes. These are IMO about the most self destructive ideas one can confront.
I've been fortunate in having in CO$ a self elected FPRD [ also about evil purposes]given by a superb auditor C/S, and L-11 by Trey Lotz in the FZ.

At Flag the FPRD style 6 month sec checks are interspersed with visits to an E/O. Does he
give programs according to past track [way....past track] eveil purps? Do they do this on L's?
We know from many reports on FPRD its ruinous. On L's?


I've also done L-11. Loved it! However I expect people who consider that I'm still
a scientologist would from that consider me nuts.

I've posted many great successes and some can be found on the FZ Success stories thread here.
For me both were up there with OT 2&3.

"I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." - Hamlet

Trouble is my dreams are real cool and fun

 

[Reasonable]

Could someone be specific about exactly how the L's are "Mind Control?"

I did the L's and while I got a little buzz out of it and I did have many floating tone arms but my life didn't really change.

Except that for a while afterwards I expected things to be better and I expected amazing things to happen so for that time I was very positive and that was nice but eventually I just sort of went back to being the same.

But I didn't see any mind control.

I think the things that seem most like mind control are sec checks , some FPRD, confessionals, some chaplain cycles, studying in the course room, almost any ethics cycle, objectives and being told to clap to the picture of Hubbard. These I can see mind control. But I don't understand how the L's are in that category.

Please explain if someone can how the L's in any form Hubbards or Miscavages can be used as mind control, I just don't see it but I would like to know your point of view on that.

 

[Jump]

Could someone be specific about exactly how the L's are "Mind Control?"

I did the L's and while I got a little buzz out of it and I did have many floating tone arms but my life didn't really change.

Except that for a while afterwards I expected things to be better and I expected amazing things to happen so for that time I was very positive and that was nice but eventually I just sort of went back to being the same.

But I didn't see any mind control.

I think the things that seem most like mind control are sec checks , some FPRD, confessionals, some chaplain cycles, studying in the course room, almost any ethics cycle, objectives and being told to clap to the picture of Hubbard. These I can see mind control. But I don't understand how the L's are in that category.

Please explain if someone can how the L's in any form Hubbards or Miscavages can be used as mind control, I just don't see it but I would like to know your point of view on that.

As a never-in, I find it difficult to imagine spending a lot of time and money on something that was interesting but essentially useless. Maybe the mind control is simply keeping you on the program :confused2:

 

[Reasonable]

As a never-in, I find it difficult to imagine spending a lot of time and money on something that was interesting but essentially useless. Maybe the mind control is simply keeping you on the program :confused2:

Thank you but that isn't really what I am looking for. The processes and procedures I was talking about were what I would really call mind control in that they essentially told you to find things that were wrong with you that you did that caused these problems and if you didn't find any then maybe you were a suppressive person and you really need to find out why and you would have to look harder for the terrible things you did. I usually ended up making things up. It was an endless loop of really telling you how to think.

The objectives could really have been mind control in that you were hypnotically told to look at something or touch something for hours and hours on end. I could see that as mind control.

I just didn't see any of that with the L's.

 

[Ralph Hilton]

C/S37R, the main part of L11 is probably the most difficult procedure to deliver in Scientology. I have audited people on it and seen the TA blow down from 5 to 2 in a few seconds when it hits EP. Delivering it to a Clear who has not done OT3 is generally a crazy idea.
The L's auditing style makes them difficult to audit. LRH later developed Expanded Dianetics which produces stabler results and can be delivered by a less experienced auditor. Later still he developed the FPRD which is even simpler to deliver and gives gains comparable to L10. But the L's are a good cash cow.
Karen is an excellent auditor who could get considerable case gain on most people while discussing the weather.
LRH repeatedly stressed that the results of Scientology are far better obtained by an auditor who fully applies the fundamentals rather than one who use the latest FOTM procedure.
The L's , as delivered in the current CofS, are Draconian Mind Control. When delivered in a safe environment they can help people. I personally wouldn't accept free auditing from any Class 12.
Scientology, optimumly practiced, should free a person from any need of an auditor. However that doesn't pay for new shoes for DM so he practices a destructive offshoot.

 

[Terril park]

C/S37R, the main part of L11 is probably the most difficult procedure to deliver in Scientology. I have audited people on it and seen the TA blow down from 5 to 2 in a few seconds when it hits EP. Delivering it to a Clear who has not done OT3 is generally a crazy idea.
The L's auditing style makes them difficult to audit. LRH later developed Expanded Dianetics which produces stabler results and can be delivered by a less experienced auditor. Later still he developed the FPRD which is even simpler to deliver and gives gains comparable to L10. But the L's are a good cash cow.
Karen is an excellent auditor who could get considerable case gain on most people while discussing the weather.
LRH repeatedly stressed that the results of Scientology are far better obtained by an auditor who fully applies the fundamentals rather than one who use the latest FOTM procedure.
The L's , as delivered in the current CofS, are Draconian Mind Control. When delivered in a safe environment they can help people. I personally wouldn't accept free auditing from any Class 12.
Scientology, optimumly practiced, should free a person from any need of an auditor. However that doesn't pay for new shoes for DM so he practices a destructive offshoot.

Interesting. I did L-11 with excellent success. L's, expanded dianetics and
FPRD all deal with evil/false purposes. My FPRD basic form was done in what
may be an uncommon way. I elected to do it myself having read the materials,
and considered this would be really good for me. It was one of the very best actions I've done, up there with upper levels.