Education and Study as Practiced in Scientology

AnonKat

Crusader
About the ‘Darwinian Theory’

“Now the Darwinian theory—now, I'll give you some idea of the influence of false track upon this society. The Darwinian theory, which probably influenced Pavlov to the greatest degree, is just an implant*. That is an implant from man to mud.”

Hubbard the Creationist LOL

Now this incident—this incident, now with a wheel dating device which gives you a series of numbers that gives you—gives you the time of these events, shows you being implanted, shows you finished implanting ... , shows you being dumped in the sea, and shows you start from the sea and become seaweed and become this—and to work up stage by stage—giving the millions of years which elapse on each step, see? And you go on and on up the line, each step—each step—each step on an evolutionary channel and you run all the way through on these evolutionary channels. ... and shows you eventually arriving at the state of being a man.
... some of the incidents of ‘What to Audit’ are actually out of that. Some of the incidents of ‘What to Audit’ are actual, some are out of that Darwinian implant, see?”

bla bla bla


A lot of characters around here got this [implant], most of them become scientists. That actually is the sole foundation of the Darwinian theory. That's the lot. Evolution: there's no such thing. Bodies don't evolve. They deteriorate, but they don't evolve. You can trace all kinds of reasons how they evolve, and why they evolve, and you can figure it all out, but the truth of the matter is when you get horses on a planet, somebody came along and mocked up some horses! Now, they also mocked up these horses with the capability of growing hair or not growing hair. You've got adjustment factors, but not evolution factors. So you confuse the adjustment factors and prove the whole theory of evolution. And now you know man came from mud, and you can write a book like Pavlov and get the whole world poisoned. You see how this one goes?
All of this is based on what? It's based on errors in time. Errors in time. Because an individual has this incident: It's a wrong time, wrong place, going wrong the whole way, and it took up two hours and actually looks like it takes up seven million, see? There are such incidents.” LRH

CAN I SMACK HUBBARDS BEHIND NOW !!
 
AnonKat,

You might find Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" and his dozen or so other books to be eye opening.

He is an archeologist. He puts forth a strong hypothesis that human bodies were developed on this planet by ETs. He gives strong supporting evidence.

He has written books, I'm not going to try to prove his point. It makes more sense than evolution.
 

esmbanon

Patron
AnonKat,

You might find Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" and his dozen or so other books to be eye opening.

He is an archeologist. He puts forth a strong hypothesis that human bodies were developed on this planet by ETs. He gives strong supporting evidence.

He has written books, I'm not going to try to prove his point. It makes more sense than evolution.

ive read some of his work and although it is an interesting hypothesis it does not make more sense then evolution. evolution is not a hypothesis. it has been proven.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
AnonKat,

You might find Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" and his dozen or so other books to be eye opening.

He is an archeologist. He puts forth a strong hypothesis that human bodies were developed on this planet by ETs. He gives strong supporting evidence.

He has written books, I'm not going to try to prove his point. It makes more sense than evolution.

Why do people want to be from the Stars. I have question for you How did the Aliens if they Exist come into being ?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
AnonKat,

You might find Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" and his dozen or so other books to be eye opening.

He is an archeologist. He puts forth a strong hypothesis that human bodies were developed on this planet by ETs. He gives strong supporting evidence.

He has written books, I'm not going to try to prove his point. It makes more sense than evolution.

I prefer Lloyd's Pye extension of Sitchin's work, best covered in his pretentiously-titled book Everything You Know Is Wrong. He has an interesting website at www.lloydpye.com.

Paul
 

The Clam

Patron with Honors
My son did his grades 1-4 in public school which was the worst experience for him and myself. Then we put him in Montessori. Upon testing they moved him behind a grade because he was behind in Montessori standard.Not being familiar with the Montessori method I became a big fan and supporter even though the tuition was high I didn't regret on dime. One thing that really stuck out was the way they taught history. They taught my son that history could be right or wrong because its based on His story of the one who wrote about it. And to get a better idea of historical event they would have to read many books on the subject. When he graduated from Montessori in the 7th grade I was amazed at his grasp of history and current event.
Another facet of the school was they will let the student work on their own determinism. There were no bells or preset times as to how much time a student could spend on the subject at hand or how many student could work together to complete an assignment. Tests were used to check a students grasp of the subjects that student was studying not to stigmatize them as is done in public schools
The teaches had so much affinity for the student and treated them as they would have adults. Rarely did he or his friends encounter discipline problems as they were almost non existent. I witnessed one student getting a bit temperamental and the teach walked up to him an gave him a hug and the child relented and began smiling as they walked hand in hand back to the class room.
Even though they had no study tech they would send children to the dictionary to define words they didn't understand.
 
The education was so good in the elelmentary school I attended in the late 1940's that I wanted to comment a little more.
First Grade: I remember learning to read with those Dick and Jane type of books, i.e. "Spot is my dog. See spot run." That type of thing. Status entered in for the first time, they had 3 reading groups, group red, group green and group yellow. The fastest learners were in red and the slowest were in yeloow. We were not told that but all the kids soon figured it out. There was definitely some status involved in being in group red and a bit of embarassment for being in group yellow. I believe we took up addition and perhaps learned to do write the alphabet in block letters. During recess, the boys and girls formed there separate teams and we played sock ball, kick ball, dodge ball and tether ball. Also there was 4 square and jump rope.
Second Grade: The big new thing was learning to write in long hand and in ink. Yes, we sat at desks with ink holes and used quill type pens with a metal nub and dipped the nubs into the ink well. Ball point pens did not arrive until 1949 and this was only 1946. In math we were introduced to subtraction. We also began to learn the state capitols and the capitols of all the countries and I believe we started to learn American History.
Third Grade We had penmanship drills, making ovals and zig zag lines to improve our handwriting. We learned multiplication tables. That was the year we studied California Missions and made maps of the state using some plaster of Paris type mixture. We went on our first bus trip down to San Pedro harbor about 30 miles away. I remember I heard the word smog for the first time. Some kids in the bus were very bothered by their eyes stinging. The teacher told us smog was a combination of smoke and fog and was made by motors and was not healthy to breathe. We began spelling bees and doing book reports. We started having a music period where we sang patriotic songs and learned all of the Steven Foster songs of the early South.
Fourth Grade: I think everyone had to read Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. We all enjoyed those wonderful books, real classics. We did not learn long division until 5th grade but in the fourth grade we studied South America. Whatever I know of that continent was all learned in grammar school. The music period continued and now each student was encouraged to stand up and give a report on some news item of the day which they heard on the radio (no TV until 5th grade because they were not sold yet.) Instead of news, we could give a Science report, any thing about life science or physical science or medical science. The recess games started getting tougher and there was more rough housing.
I'm going to knock it off right here.
Lakey

For comparison of public schools, then (your description is similar to my own) and now.

Our kids knew the alphabet and could count to twenty by the time they were three and a half. This is partially because we read to them a lot, interacted with them, and had them in pre school.

The youngest, born in 79, when she was in sixth grade, wrote a three page essay, typed it, and printed it. This was normal in her class.

In that same year, we (she and I) would play Go and Go Mo Ku every night. Go is a several thousand year old game from Asia. It requires a healthy dose of logic. It isn't a game of chance. One night some friends were visiting. Lew was working on the Lisa project. He and I had played Go for decades. Lew and our daughter got to playing a game of Go. At first it was light hearted and "how cute," then he started looking very serious. Our daughter won the game. He turned beet red, and spent the next two years spreading her laurels.

And again, in that year, a math teacher gave her a bad grade because our daughter's answer didn't match the book's answer. Our daughter was right. The book was wrong. The teacher was wrong.

It became clear to me that school was merely a device to put kids in little boxes and keep them from crowding the labor pool.

Because of my experiences with school, our kids worked while they were in school. School wasn't their only source of life experience. We also had them in gymnastics (we had and still have a trampoline in our backyard), dance, theatre, sports.

I took one of our boys rock climbing in Yosemite, up 2500 feet, when he was 12.

Our youngest boy, volunteered with the local police department. The moment he graduated from high school, he had a job, paying $70K a year, answering 911 calls.

When the youngest boy was 14, he scheduled and traveled something outrageous like 36,000 miles on Amtrak on a single $600 excursion ticket. He could ride all he wanted for 45 days, so long as he didn't ever commute. We hooked him up with Art Lloyd, Amtrak's western PR director. Amtrak took care of him as he traversed the country. He met Graham Clater, the CEO of Amtrak in Washington, D.C. He wrote dozen articles that appeared in our local newspaper, as he traveled. When he returned, he had a job with the paper for the next few years.

The oldest girl,as many of you know, was a class Vl at 14, and an Vlll at 16. She finished high school at 14, and was a working auditor, C/S, and intern sup at ASHO before she changed career paths.

The youngest was a member of SAG and AFTRA from age 4. In most years, she made more money than her teachers. From sixth grade on, we would do her school work every six weeks or so. We'd get it done in a day.

Having been raised on a farm, where everyone works. I was never content to have my children treated like children. They had adult responsibilities and viewpoints. The system didn't smother the life out of them.

So long as you help your children on "THEIR PATH" (not your path for them), help them build and work their dreams and aspirations, and certainly, allow them to fall flat on their face every now and again, letting them develop mastery in a multitude of skills along the way - then they'll transition in life to adulthood on their terms, not having been broken by the system.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Read Michael Newton's research and you'll get an answer to that one which I find credible. Details on this thread: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11252

Paul

ARGGGGG L RON HUBBARD HAD CLONES. Hypnosis ? Why do all Americans believe in Aliens? Why are you all; Brainwashed to the Core.

AnonKat,

You might find Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" and his dozen or so other books to be eye opening.

He is an archeologist. He puts forth a strong hypothesis that human bodies were developed on this planet by ETs. He gives strong supporting evidence.

He has written books, I'm not going to try to prove his point. It makes more sense than evolution.

Yes there was a Base now obscured beyond recognition. OH WAIT that was Hubbard.

I do like to watch all alien hypothesis.

To have proof for Evolution, just learn about your DNA.

I am so appaled at American Education going down the Drain. History , Geography and Biology seem to be Sub-Standard over there.

Don't believe in Sky Daddys.
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Learn some science for goodness sake

ARGGGGG L RON HUBBARD HAD CLONES. Hypnosis ? Why do all Americans believe in Aliens? Why are you all; Brainwashed to the Core.

Yes there was a Base now obscured beyond recognition. OH WAIT that was Hubbard.

I do like to watch all alien hypothesis.

To have proof for Evolution, just learn about your DNA.

I am so appaled at American Education going down the Drain. History , Geography and Biology seem to be Sub-Standard over there.

Don't believe in Sky Daddys.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

There is such a lack of basic understanding of biology by so many of my fellow Americans it is disheartening. :duh: People don't want to study. They want to read a couple of books by some purported 'expert' on mankind to spoon feed them total bullshit. TRY STUDYING. Word clear DNA and RNA, especially MITOCHONDRIAL DNA. Word clear EVOLUTION. Word clear CARBON DATING and ARCHEOLOGY. Word clear NEANDERTHAL. Word clear HOMO HABILIS, STONE AGE, PALEOLITHIC.

Stop trying to take the easy path to knowledge. You will find ignorance and hubbard at the end of that path.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
My kids had similar experiences

For comparison of public schools, then (your description is similar to my own) and now.

Our kids knew the alphabet and could count to twenty by the time they were three and a half. This is partially because we read to them a lot, interacted with them, and had them in pre school.

Ditto for us, my oldest was born in '82, only 3 years from your youngest. Both my boy and girl were reading by age 3 1/2 and knew the alphabet and could count to 100 and more as well. We also sent them to pre school.

The youngest, born in 79, when she was in sixth grade, wrote a three page essay, typed it, and printed it. This was normal in her class.

Yes, word processors were available to type on in the 80's where we had to learn on type writers which took place around the 8th grade.

In that same year, we (she and I) would play Go and Go Mo Ku every night. Go is a several thousand year old game from Asia. It requires a healthy dose of logic. It isn't a game of chance. One night some friends were visiting. Lew was working on the Lisa project. He and I had played Go for decades. Lew and our daughter got to playing a game of Go. At first it was light hearted and "how cute," then he started looking very serious. Our daughter won the game. He turned beet red, and spent the next two years spreading her laurels.

I know the game "Go" but did not learn it until 8th grade..

And again, in that year, a math teacher gave her a bad grade because our daughter's answer didn't match the book's answer. Our daughter was right. The book was wrong. The teacher was wrong.

Very nice, very smart daughter!

It became clear to me that school was merely a device to put kids in little boxes and keep them from crowding the labor pool.

Because of my experiences with school, our kids worked while they were in school. School wasn't their only source of life experience. We also had them in gymnastics (we had and still have a trampoline in our backyard), dance, theatre, sports.

I did a morning "paper route" from 13 - 15, delivering the newspaper on my bicycle. The job was just fantastic! It included going to all the houses at the end of every month and collecting the fee. It was so much fun to be out there at 6 in the moning delivering papers. I "porched" every paper, never left them on the lawn or driveway. Our kids did not work during school but they did gymnastics, dance, soccer, piano lessons and all the good stuff.

I took one of our boys rock climbing in Yosemite, up 2500 feet, when he was 12.

Our youngest boy, volunteered with the local police department. The moment he graduated from high school, he had a job, paying $70K a year, answering 911 calls.

Impressive!

When the youngest boy was 14, he scheduled and traveled something outrageous like 36,000 miles on Amtrak on a single $600 excursion ticket. He could ride all he wanted for 45 days, so long as he didn't ever commute. We hooked him up with Art Lloyd, Amtrak's western PR director. Amtrak took care of him as he traversed the country. He met Graham Clater, the CEO of Amtrak in Washington, D.C. He wrote dozen articles that appeared in our local newspaper, as he traveled. When he returned, he had a job with the paper for the next few years.

The oldest girl,as many of you know, was a class Vl at 14, and an Vlll at 16. She finished high school at 14, and was a working auditor, C/S, and intern sup at ASHO before she changed career paths.

The youngest was a member of SAG and AFTRA from age 4. In most years, she made more money than her teachers. From sixth grade on, we would do her school work every six weeks or so. We'd get it done in a day.

Very Impressive!

Having been raised on a farm, where everyone works. I was never content to have my children treated like children. They had adult responsibilities and viewpoints. The system didn't smother the life out of them.

So long as you help your children on "THEIR PATH" (not your path for them), help them build and work their dreams and aspirations, and certainly, allow them to fall flat on their face every now and again, letting them develop mastery in a multitude of skills along the way - then they'll transition in life to adulthood on their terms, not having been broken by the system.

My point in writing about my elementary school experiences was to point out that in my opinion the school system was much better then than it is now. When I graduated from 6th grade, I had my basic skills of reading, writing and arithmetic set in solidly for life. The same thing for geography, world and state capitols and for three types of history, U.S. History, South American history and California history. In the 7th grade at Junior high we learned Greek and Roman history. I still know the stuff I was taught then and when I watch a quiz show such as Jeopardy, I still blurt out many answers from things I learned from my early public school education.

I have beautiful writing and penmanship which people can actually read. My kids do not have this. I learned more about history and geography than they did. Today, these off beat theories "about self esteem" are so rampant that the game of dodge ball has been outlawed in most schools and now the concept of keeping score is being attacked along with its corollary of a game having a winner and a loser. The theory is that being on the losing side of a game is ruinous to one's self esteem. This type of coddling is just garbage. Another practice which may have bitten the dust in recent times is the time honored practice of choosing up teams. You know, two teams are set up and captains are chosen and then the captains choose sides with alternating picks. The worst athletes are left to the end. I have undergone this team choosing drill and have at times being picked first, in the middle of the pack and also dead last. Believe me, my psysche was not destroyed by being chosen last. On Friday's instead of having regular gym class we had coed dance. Near the end of the period we had ladies choice one week and boy's choice the next week, very similar to choosing up teams. I wore glasses and had braces on my teeth, I was always one of the last two or three guys chosen, often dead last. My self esteem was crushed but thats part of life, eventually I grew out of it. How can the do gooders of today's educators prevent this type of scenario from occuring. I bet they have figured something out such as pairing boys and girls up without allowing anyone to choose. That solution solves one problem and creates others, mainly it makes the dancing period less fun and exciting for all and prevents those who are attracted to each other from pairing up on the dance floor.

Another modern development has been the reduction of the rights of many to serve the needs of one or two. A tiny percentage of students are allergic to peanut butter so instead of those students being served a substitute, peanut butter is banned throughout the school system, also on airlines.

Naming a sports team after an Indian tribe, in my opinion, honors the bravery, courage and athletic prowess of that tribe. Oh, no...modern thinking dictates that it is an unenlightened characature demeaning the tribe so no more Stanford Indians or Buffalo Braves. No more calling your team by the colorful names such as Cherokees, Commanche's or Apache's. I wonder how the Jeep company gets away using those names and the sports teams don't.


SUMMARY - My point was that when people of my generation got out of 6th grade, many of us had a better education than many people have today graduating from high school, certainly our 9th grade education was better than today's high school education. Our high school education was at least equal to today's Bachelor's degree. My K through 12 education, all in the City of L.A. schools made me a literate person and I do not believe this claim can still be made for today's schools. Just go ask some high school graduates some basic questions like what continent Poland is located on or when Teddy Roosevelt lived and you will be met by blank stares.
Lakey
 
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^^^^ THIS ^^^^

There is such a lack of basic understanding of biology by so many of my fellow Americans it is disheartening. :duh: People don't want to study. They want to read a couple of books by some purported 'expert' on mankind to spoon feed them total bullshit. TRY STUDYING. Word clear DNA and RNA, especially MITOCHONDRIAL DNA. Word clear EVOLUTION. Word clear CARBON DATING and ARCHEOLOGY. Word clear NEANDERTHAL. Word clear HOMO HABILIS, STONE AGE, PALEOLITHIC.

Stop trying to take the easy path to knowledge. You will find ignorance and hubbard at the end of that path.

YOU'D BETTER WATCH OUT FOR THE EGGPLANT THAT ATE CHICAGO.

IF HE'S STILL HUNGRY, THE WHOLE COUNTRY'S DOOMED!
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
SUMMARY - My point was that when people of my generation got out of 6th grade, many of us had a better education than many people have today graduating from high school, certainly our 9th grade education was better than today's high school education. Our high school education was at least equal to today's Bachelor's degree. My K through 12 education, all in the City of L.A. schools made me a literate person and I do not believe this claim can still be made for today's schools. Just go ask some high school graduates some basic questions like what continent Poland is located on or when Teddy Roosevelt lived and you will be met by blank stares.
Lakey

Yes, its true. I graduated an east coast high school in a town supported by the oil industry in 1971, and things were vastly different. I went thru a college prep education in a public school, but went into the Navy as opposed to college. If I get into a discussion with your average college graduate these days they assume that I have some sort of doctorate in something, they can't match my vocabulary inspite of being college educated. But, they will occaisionally wince if I use an expression that has been deemed "politically incorrect".

Telephone tech support ... where some of these people wind up ... trained in today's schools ... when I did tech support on the fone, I backstopped these people who couldn't figure out the most simple of wiring diagrams, but, who were expert at politing people to death, and trained never to use the word "problem", as in we only have "issues" or "situations". To this day, if I call anywhere needing tech support and the rep says "issue" I always come back with "no, we don't have an issue, it's a PROBLEM. We have a FUCKING PROBLEM!"

Speaking of sports and choosing up teams ... here in St. Louis with the Rams winning 1 or 2 games per season of late ... my standing joke is that they have evolved and are no longer playing Neanderthal like competitive football, but, rather, they have gone on to a higher level and are now playing politically correct co-operative football, mindful not to inflict dangerous psychological damage to the fellows on the other team, but rather encouraging them, as in, "Here, have a turnover!" Pretty soon, little old ladies in wheel chairs will be invited onto the field to play, and eventually the great day will come when we can all cross the goal line together singing Coombayah and "We Shall Overcome".

But back to the issue of education ... You must visit
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com

Education was sabotaged in this country deliberately over a long period of time. As a result, almost nobody graduating highschool these days or even most college grads can answer the most basic or fundamental questions as to how the money system works, how the tax system works (how liability for a given tax is incurred) and/or how the legal system works, as in how is it possible to have laws on the books that on face value fly in the face of the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

One last point ... some high schools, in a college prep ciriculum, there are no shop classes. I graduated knowing how to do a mechanical drawing, how to do simple wood work, how to run a lathe, a milling machine, a surface grinder, drill press, how to scribe metal, how to use a file, centerpunch, etc, etc, etc. It is therefore possible to graduate high school these days without even the most basic and simple knowledge of the use of hand tools or common household repairs.

Pete
 
Speaking of sports and choosing up teams ... here in St. Louis with the Rams winning 1 or 2 games per season of late ... my standing joke is that they have evolved and are no longer playing Neanderthal like competitive football, but, rather, they have gone on to a higher level and are now playing politically correct co-operative football, mindful not to inflict dangerous psychological damage to the fellows on the other team, but rather encouraging them, as in, "Here, have a turnover!" Pretty soon, little old ladies in wheel chairs will be invited onto the field to play, and eventually the great day will come when we can all cross the goal line together singing Coombayah and "We Shall Overcome".

One last point ... some high schools, in a college prep ciriculum, there are no shop classes. I graduated knowing how to do a mechanical drawing, how to do simple wood work, how to run a lathe, a milling machine, a surface grinder, drill press, how to scribe metal, how to use a file, centerpunch, etc, etc, etc. It is therefore possible to graduate high school these days without even the most basic and simple knowledge of the use of hand tools or common household repairs.

Pete

Pete,

The Rams have certainly evolved past the time when Merlin Olsen took out John Brodie's front teeth. Congratulations. I always found it funny seeing Merlin on Little House on the Prairie and the FTD flower ads being so warm and cuddly.

Confront of the physical universe is down across the boards in the Us of A
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Great Post Pete!

Yes, its true. I graduated an east coast high school in a town supported by the oil industry in 1971, and things were vastly different. I went thru a college prep education in a public school, but went into the Navy as opposed to college. If I get into a discussion with your average college graduate these days they assume that I have some sort of doctorate in something, they can't match my vocabulary inspite of being college educated. But, they will occaisionally wince if I use an expression that has been deemed "politically incorrect".

Telephone tech support ... where some of these people wind up ... trained in today's schools ... when I did tech support on the fone, I backstopped these people who couldn't figure out the most simple of wiring diagrams, but, who were expert at politing people to death, and trained never to use the word "problem", as in we only have "issues" or "situations". To this day, if I call anywhere needing tech support and the rep says "issue" I always come back with "no, we don't have an issue, it's a PROBLEM. We have a FUCKING PROBLEM!"

Speaking of sports and choosing up teams ... here in St. Louis with the Rams winning 1 or 2 games per season of late ... my standing joke is that they have evolved and are no longer playing Neanderthal like competitive football, but, rather, they have gone on to a higher level and are now playing politically correct co-operative football, mindful not to inflict dangerous psychological damage to the fellows on the other team, but rather encouraging them, as in, "Here, have a turnover!" Pretty soon, little old ladies in wheel chairs will be invited onto the field to play, and eventually the great day will come when we can all cross the goal line together singing Coombayah and "We Shall Overcome".

But back to the issue of education ... You must visit
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com

Education was sabotaged in this country deliberately over a long period of time. As a result, almost nobody graduating highschool these days or even most college grads can answer the most basic or fundamental questions as to how the money system works, how the tax system works (how liability for a given tax is incurred) and/or how the legal system works, as in how is it possible to have laws on the books that on face value fly in the face of the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

One last point ... some high schools, in a college prep ciriculum, there are no shop classes. I graduated knowing how to do a mechanical drawing, how to do simple wood work, how to run a lathe, a milling machine, a surface grinder, drill press, how to scribe metal, how to use a file, centerpunch, etc, etc, etc. It is therefore possible to graduate high school these days without even the most basic and simple knowledge of the use of hand tools or common household repairs.

Pete

Pete - Thanks for your comprehensive post, it is really far reaching and hits the nail on the head. Thanks for bringing up the East Coast Public Schools! I was going to mention that in my post and forgot. We would get a transfer student in from the East Coast, mostly New York City, and that person was always a year ahead of us in L.A.. Often times the east coast kid would have to skip a grade to avoid doing some major topic such the multiplication tables over again. We L.A. kids were always impressed at how much better the New York and Eastern schools in general must be.

Yes, those shop courses, they were great in junior high and high school. I also took mechanical drawing and drafting in both the 7th and 12th grades, took band in junior high and played French Horn in the Orchestra in Senior High. In Junior High we all had to take shops. I took Print shop, Electrical shop, Wood shop and Metal Shop. In electrical shop we all had to do a major project and I built a crystal radio set which actually worked. In metal shop, I made a cake serving spatula shaped thing with a cutting edge (a cake knife) and I believe I had it up until our last more in 2001 when it finally got lost or maybe my wife threw it out.

ONE IMPROVEMENT IN MODERN TIMES - MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR WOMEN
One area where the moderns beat us was in women's rights. There were no girls at all in any of my shop type courses. The 12th grade drafting class did have a couple of girls because it was an elective but none of the mandatory shop classes ever had any girls in them and I know some girls wanted to take shops and it was denied them. While the guys took their shops, the girls took Home Economics about how to cook, sew and run a household. For the time period of the 1950's this made sense but it sucks.....it is really archaic thinking to deny a female the right to take any of the shops. Many of the girls of that time mentioned that they wished they could take those classes and it was denied them. The boys were denied home economics which was also wrong but not that many guys wanted to take it, probably the only ones who did were guys who wanted to become chefs
Lakey
 
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miscellaneous thoughts - sublime and ridiculous

Go Nuclear, since you were a "nuke" in the Jimmy Carter era, shouldn't you be "GoNucular"?

My problem with the education mindset of the schools, is the non check sheet, non mastery of each piece, non ability to transfer much thought into actual action.

This is one of those all purpose criticisms. I sometimes need a lot of time (for instance studying a foreign language), and sometimes I get things very quickly (like math). I like the checksheet system. You get each piece totally; you can demonstrate your competence; you can apply it. It isn't just an idea. You move at your own speed. I don't like slowing others by my performance, or being slowed by others when I'm cruising.

There is so much rote knowledge in the mechanical fields - plumbing, electrical, mechanical. What isn't especially taught is "why" things work. The basic machines:

the inclined plane
the wedge
the screw
the lever
the wheel and axle
the pulley

It just seems to me that these are basics that anyone, boy or girl could profit from learning. When your garbage disposal doesn't work, it would be good to be able to diagnose it.

History shouldn't be about dates and events, but causes and effects. Taking a more pan determined look at history, where Columbus was not discovering the new world, but beginning the destruction of a way of life for the people who lived in North and South America.

Slavery ended in Canada without a civil war. Would it have died out in the USA without a devastating war?

The Titanic sank and lives were lost because the sailors in charge couldn't think outside of the box. There were lots of flotation devices besides the lifeboats.

Thinking with given elements creatively rather than "how it has always been done" is not a school topic.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Law school handles this area.

Go Nuclear, since you were a "nuke" in the Jimmy Carter era, shouldn't you be "GoNucular"?


<Snip.......>

Thinking with given elements creatively rather than "how it has always been done" is not a school topic.

There is training in the area which you mention in your above last sentence but it is only for those who go to law school. It is called critical thinking and the law schools have a pretty good handle on helping one to learn it. When my ex wife went to law school from 1993 to 1997, I helped her a lot with her homework and was introduced to the art of Critical thinking.

A lot of critical thinking skill are shown by script writers of various detective type stories such as the Sherlock Holmes series, the Perry Mason series and the Lt. Columbo series. A lot of the clever movies have an ingenious plot twist at the end which someone who can observe well and think outside of the box can sometimes deduce.
Lakey
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
check sheets

Go Nuclear, since you were a "nuke" in the Jimmy Carter era, shouldn't you be "GoNucular"?

My problem with the education mindset of the schools, is the non check sheet, non mastery of each piece, non ability to transfer much thought into actual action.

This is one of those all purpose criticisms. I sometimes need a lot of time (for instance studying a foreign language), and sometimes I get things very quickly (like math). I like the checksheet system. You get each piece totally; you can demonstrate your competence; you can apply it. It isn't just an idea. You move at your own speed. I don't like slowing others by my performance, or being slowed by others when I'm cruising.

There is so much rote knowledge in the mechanical fields - plumbing, electrical, mechanical. What isn't especially taught is "why" things work. The basic machines:

the inclined plane
the wedge
the screw
the lever
the wheel and axle
the pulley

It just seems to me that these are basics that anyone, boy or girl could profit from learning. When your garbage disposal doesn't work, it would be good to be able to diagnose it.

History shouldn't be about dates and events, but causes and effects. Taking a more pan determined look at history, where Columbus was not discovering the new world, but beginning the destruction of a way of life for the people who lived in North and South America.

Slavery ended in Canada without a civil war. Would it have died out in the USA without a devastating war?

The Titanic sank and lives were lost because the sailors in charge couldn't think outside of the box. There were lots of flotation devices besides the lifeboats.

Thinking with given elements creatively rather than "how it has always been done" is not a school topic.

The Nuclear Navy had something similar to the "check sheet" ... it was called the "qualification card". There were constant check outs to gotten on various engineering systems. To be honest, it was a bit of the phuggen nightmare, as in "draw a diagram of the (fill in the blank) system, showing all pipes, all valves, and the locations of all hydraulic actuators" etc. BTW, Jimmy Carter was a submarine officer who was personally interviewed by Adm. Rickover for the nuclear program, all officers were. Nor was it Jimmy Carter that said "nucular", that was Bush (43rd president, also known as W)

Regarding "rote knowledge" ... more like mechanical common sense. There are certain skills such as looking at a nut and knowing instantly what size wrench to grab, I wouldn't call that rote either. But for a kid out of highschool to not understand why it is possible to push start a car with a manual transmission vs. an automatic transmission (that is possible too, but you have to get the car going at like 30mph) or even how to do a jump start or how to fix a small hole in drywall with patching plaster ... that's just wrong.

Pete
 
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