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Effort to Simplify

Vinaire

Sponsor
It appears that in any LOOKING and EXPERIENCING it is important to first locate the source of non-optimum attention in one’s space, and then do looking and experiencing with or without the help of a process.

The location of the non-optimum attention can be in, on or around the body. In fact, the location can be anywhere, and one simply has to pin point it. I think this is an important step which is being accomplished at OT levels through the via of BTs and Clusters.

One really doesn’t need the concepts of BTs, Clusters, Spiritual Teammates, etc. All one needs is to locate is the point of non-optimum attention before looking and experiencing with or without the help of a process.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
I am studying NOTs materials now.

Could a BT simply be a location of compressed mass and/or energy which starts to decompress when attention is put on it?

When the attention is put on it lightly it responds per its programming. But when attention is focused on it, it starts to unravel.

Complications may arise if thinking is used and the flow coming from the BT is resisted. But if it is allowed to unravel (no thinking, no resisting) then it unravels completely.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
NOTs came about because the pressure to find earlier/similars on Dianetics got people into trouble. I think that the same reason applies to coming up with the BT concept. This pressure to find incidents makes a pc add thinking to looking, and disperses one's attention.

If Dn and Scn had been following the concept of LOOKING WITHOUT THINKING by emphasizing it, along with the concept of looking precisely at points of non-optimum attention, there would have been no need to introduce the concepts of BTs and clusters.

The concepts of BTs and Clusters are basically patch-up solutions in lieu of not knowing the real why. The real why has been not applying the basics of

(1) LOOKING WITHOUT THINKING
(2) EXPERIENCING WITHOUT RESISTING
(3) LOOKING AT POINTS OF NON-OPTIMUM ATTENTION
(4) LOOKING AT WHAT ONE IS LOOKING THROUGH.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of earlier similar is goofy. The mind knows how to unstack itself, and that is not always linear. By insisting on earlier/similar one is forcing the mind to unstack itself in a certain way, which may not be natural to the mind. Hubbard followed a certain theory, but it fell apart and required patch-up solutions because the scientific method was not followed closely.

The OT Levels are essentially patch-up solutions to correct earlier errors. They are NOT advanced levels.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
AUDITING is basically the sorting out of stressful past experiences to gain stressfree understanding in the present.

Hubbard was on the right track in postulating that it were stressful past experiences that caused present difficulties. But he assumed that recall of past incidents was necessary to accomplish this, as he struggled against the factor of OCCLUSION.

But the truth is that the past "incident" causing present difficulty is right there in the present, because the person is looking through it, and that is exactly what is causing the difficulty. (Please see VIEWPOINT)

Hubbard's supposedly AHA MOMENT came in earlier research (see EVOLUTION OF A SCIENCE), when he forced an aware patient into an incident, which, up to that point, he could only get under drug hypnosis. The patient experienced a sharp pain.

This gave rise to the theory of ENGRAM and DIANETICS. Hubbard postulated that it was pain that occulded and thus prevented the sorting out of past experiences. Hubbard did come across other phenomenon, but he explained it all in terms of recalling ENGRAMS from the past track of the person.

The early effort in DIANETICS became searching for the engram through FORCE. The auditor made all kind of computations to somehow bypass the mind's protective circuits to uncover the engram. Anything that rendered the patient unaware, such as drug hypnosis, was useless because the key was to make the patient aware of the engram.

Success of Dianetics came because some engrams could be found accompanied by miraculous recoveries. But the more the mind was forced the more difficult it became to find engrams. Hubbard's efforts were to find clever ways to penetrate occlusion.

The mistakes were
(1) Assuming that there is occlusion.
(2) Forcing the mind through that supposed occlusion.

There is no existing occlusion. There is only created occlusion. The "incident" causing present difficulty is in the present time. One simply needs to look at it. Please see VIEWPOINT.

What prevents one from looking at that incident is THINKING and one's IGNORANCE of how to go about looking at what is there. The ineresting factor is

THE MORE YOU PUSH THE MIND USING COMPUTATIONS THE MORE IS THE OCCLUSION.

WHAT IS CREATING OCCLUSION IS THE ACT OF PUSHING COMPUTATION.


Force is never the ultimate solution. Use of force is like playing in the hands of the MEST universe. Hubbard even said so. And this was Hubbard's nemesis, which he didn't fully realize. He did realize it somewhat in his AUDITOR'S CODE but not fully. He still was pushing computation at the patient through the auditor, the standard Grade Chart, and the C/S.

He did it till the end. He looked at mind as the enemy to be "tricked, lied to and sued."

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Almsivi

Patron
So, you want to say, that when a restimulation occurs, that by simply looking
an experiencing it, the engram which is restimulated will be erased??

:)
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
So, you want to say, that when a restimulation occurs, that by simply looking
an experiencing it, the engram which is restimulated will be erased??

:)

Yes, but only if you don't add thinking and resistance to that looking and experiencing. That is what Buddha taught in my opinion.

Trouble comes when you interefere with how the mind is trying to un-stack itself. Unfortunately, Hubbard got too impatient with the mind.

But many of Hubbard's insights are wonderful. Maybe the whole Grade Chart will go much faster if a person does it with KHTK approach several times over and over again. Processes that are not necessary won't bite the first time and that is ok. They may bite the second or the third time through, if the mind is ready to repond to them.

The point I am making is let the mind un-stack itself. Don't interfere with that process. Simply assist that process.

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nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, but only if you don't add thinking and resistance to that looking and experiencing. That is what Buddha taught in my opinion.

Trouble comes when you interefere with how the mind is trying to un-stack itself. Unfortunately, Hubbard got too impatient with the mind.

But many of Hubbard's insights are wonderful. Maybe the whole Grade Chart will go much faster if a person does it with KHTK approach several times over and over again. Processes that are not necessary won't bite the first time and that is ok. They may bite the second or the third time through, if the mind is ready to repond to them.

The point I am making is let the mind un-stack itself. Don't interfere with that process. Simply assist that process.

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Is there a "mind" if you don't put it there?
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Is there a "mind" if you don't put it there?

Let's not speculate.

The existing situation is that people are trying to sort out something. How one label's that something doesn't matter. Call it mind, call it life, or call it a condition.

I am simply looking at the common denominator of what help's one sort out whatever it is.

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nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Let's not speculate.

The existing situation is that people are trying to sort out something. How one label's that something doesn't matter. Call it mind, call it life, or call it a condition.

I am simply looking at the common denominator of what help's one sort out whatever it is.

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Let's not speculate!?!?!?!?!?!? :duh:

Merciful heavens, katie bar the door, through the mouth and through the gums, look out stomach, here it comes, the aweful, incredible, unmeasureable, titanic VIN! (Don't look behind the curtain, please.)
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Let's not speculate!?!?!?!?!?!? :duh:

Merciful heavens, katie bar the door, through the mouth and through the gums, look out stomach, here it comes, the aweful, incredible, unmeasureable, titanic VIN! (Don't look behind the curtain, please.)


Yes, I am fully here. Nothing is hidden, including my mind, or, whatever you may call it. :D

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Almsivi

Patron
Yes, but only if you don't add thinking and resistance to that looking and experiencing. That is what Buddha taught in my opinion.

Trouble comes when you interefere with how the mind is trying to un-stack itself. Unfortunately, Hubbard got too impatient with the mind.

But many of Hubbard's insights are wonderful. Maybe the whole Grade Chart will go much faster if a person does it with KHTK approach several times over and over again. Processes that are not necessary won't bite the first time and that is ok. They may bite the second or the third time through, if the mind is ready to repond to them.

The point I am making is let the mind un-stack itself. Don't interfere with that process. Simply assist that process.

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Ok. Thanx for the answer. :)
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
I am afraid there is going to be a modern priesthood cropping up that will attempt to nullify this effort to simplify. These "priests" will try to block this effort to have a simple technology available broadly.

There are these "priests of tech" around, who will feel that their livelihood is threatened thinking that nobody would need their services. But the truth is that there will always be plenty of people who will need help in improving their conditions.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
NOTs Series #1

NOTs Series #1 seems to go into an explanation of why Clears don't act as Clears when one looks at their recall and memory. I think it is an over-complicated explanation.

It seems that the original Dianetics has its reasons for failure, but those reason are not as complicated as made out to be in NOTs series #1.

A person is Clear when pictures of all past confusions are discharged. Now we find that this person has still more confusions. Obviously, these confusion are not at a picture level but at some other level.

To protect his unfounded claims about Clears, Hubbard came up with a complicated explanation that these confusions are not from the Clear's "case" but from the case of other "thetans" stuck to the Clear. Hubbard then came up with his OT Levels to help the Clear handle the "cases" of these "thetans" stuck to him.

Now, if we do not have any unfounded claims to protect about the Clears, we can have a much simpler explanation. A Clear is simply someone from whom all the confusing pictures have been cleared out. But there are other levels of confusions which still needs to be cleared out. What is the next level?

One only needs to look at what happens to these pictures when they are discharged? These pictures now settle down as data that no longer has the previous charge. But this data can be in conflict with other data held in place by the Clear. There are things like fixed ideas, misunderstoods, illogical beliefs, lack of conceptual understanding, etc. None of these involve pictures that are charged, but they involve pictures that can be created as needed by the Clear. Actually, any person can create pictures whether he is a Clear or not. That is an ability we have. Calling one's own uncharged pictured as "charged picture of a BT stuck to you" is an unnecessarily complicated explanation.

Now, where did Dianetics go wrong? Hubbard assumed that all confusions (and aberrations due to them) will be gone once all charged pictures were audited out. When that did not happen, he had to come up with some explanation to protect his theory of Dianetics. So, he explained it as the case of other entities that were attached to the Clear, because to admit it as Clear's case will make his original theory wrong. This was too big a crow for Hubbard to eat.

Engrams were not the panacea Hubbard made them out to be. Beyond engrams, one may say, there are "conceptual engrams," and beyond that... ? It is a matter of research. Hubbard was far from being complete in his research. But he did come up with a lot of useful stuff.

Alright, it much easier to approach this problem if one admits that a Clear still has a case, but that case is at the level of ideas and concepts. The Clear now uses his aberrated ideas and concepts to create aberrated pictures in the present.

No BTs or clusters are required for this explanation.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
This thread is concluded for me as far as I am concerned. This thread gave me an opportunity to look at the upper levels of Sciuentology in depth, to really examine the ideas of BTs and clusters, and to understand the underlying principles that really work.

The body simply needs good nutrition and proper direction from the mind.

Mind simply needs good LOOKING, and proper supervision from the spirit.

Like a coiled spring, which uncoils itself when allowed to, mind straightens itself out when not imposed upon. When the spirit ensures that the mind LOOKS without thinking, and EXPERIENCES without resisting, it happily finds solutions and implements them through the body.

I am now off to another thread (WHAT IS DEPRESSION?) from which the following post is presented here:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=379947&postcount=96

I know this thread may have given the impression of random wandering. I was simply letting my mind uncoil itself. I am happy that it did a good job as I am satisfied with it.

Thank you all, for letting me have my way on this thread.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
All assessments lists seem to have the purpose of finding out what is wrong with the preclear, or to find out where the charge is for the preclear.

The assumption here is that the preclear cannot determine this by himself. This may be true for a person who is really keyed in, but I think in the majority of cases the preclear has a failrly good idea where the charge lies.

Thus, in majority of the cases, the assumption underlying the reason for assessment does not apply; and there is the possiblity of overuse of assessment.

Overuse of assessment is likely to create dependence on the E-meter for the preclear and this goes against the purpose of auditing, which is to make a person more self-determined.

Also, assessment is a form of evaluation because it amounts to giving the preclear ideas of what could be wrong with him. I always wondered what makes "implants" read on a preclear because it is not a word that one uses in common language. If it reads, it must have come as a suggestion from Tech materials.

It seems that Scientology evaluates for a person in more ways then I thought earlier, while it denies doing that. The use of e-meter itself is evaluative.

This covert evaluation seems to be carried forward in subjects that are derivative of Scientology as in Freezone and in the Independent Field.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
KHTK #1

Here is the first fruit from the effort to simplify.

Knowing How to Know (KHTK) Series #1 LOOKING is finalized. It is now issued without the PILOT status. A person can apply the data in this issue while going through one's daily routine and make one's life much simpler and happier.

KHTK #1 LOOKING

The use of this data also helps one get faster results from IDENICS and any other form of guided meditation. A person can then soon graduate from guided to solo meditation, as it should be if we have to get a grass roots movement going

I want to acknowledge the contributions of Ivan Dockocil, who is also trained on IDENICS procedures, in helping to put this basic data together.

I am grateful to John Galusha's IDENICS and Mike Goldstein who spurred me forward in my effort to simplify.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
:) Exercise 1

Look around the room and observe different objects without thinking.


Did you notice a moment when there were no thoughts?

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Vinaire

Sponsor
Level 0 Processes

The majority of Level 0 checksheet is about administration of the course, the point system, the use of tools, such as the E-meter etc. There is a long runway before one gets to the actual technology of Level 0.

I am not impressed with the employment of the E-meter on these level 0 processes. It creates more problems than it solves. It also creates dependence on the part of both the auditor and the pc. They come to expect certain things and that then determines how the E-meter reacts. Many a times E-meter behaves in the manner of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think the role of the E-meter in auditing is over-valued. The more attention is put on the e-meter in auditing, the worst is the outcome.

The idea of an F/N is simply a joke. A preclear knows when he is done with a process. He doesn’t have to be told if he has an F/N. There are more problems with F/Ns than they are worth. Besides it is very difficult to tell if the meter F/N’d on a word or on a definition of a word, as there could be many things hitting the person, and it is hard to judge just one of them. One ends up telling the person to just keep his attention on that one definition and on nothing else.

My view is that indicating F/Ns (or any other read) to the pc is evaluative and should not be done. Too much reliance or emphasis on FNs seems to create trouble. When one is auditing without a meter it is very likely that “FNs” get missed. But the fact is that when there is good communication, any such situation of “missed F/N’ easily corrects itself.

Overrun and upsets won’t be there if a session is conducted for client’s benefit, and not to satisfy some theory.

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