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Electro-Shock Therapy Causes the Resurgence of Self-Determinism

Good twin

Floater
People join cults to make life simpler and more manageable for them.

Once you settle in and adopt the comfortable mindset of the cult, you become less able to look at, to listen to, and to handle the innate complexities of life.

A cult is a simplistic solution to a complex problem.

In my early twenties, life was so complex for me that I didn't believe in anything and I felt I really had very little to live for. The cult gave me exactly what I needed at that time of my life.

Later, I grew. And as I grew, I outgrew my need for the cult. Once that happened, what used to be comforting to me became oppressive to me.

Maybe there are some people like Flash who still very much need the cult.

We think they just need to wake up.

Maybe, maybe not.

That's part of that complexity of life thing.

Yes, Alanzodillo this is true. I once told Vinay that my opinion is that Scientology has live beyond it's expiration date. After going to the May 9th event, and seeing the Scientologists continuing to buy what I no longer can, it occurred to me that maybe it really does still fill a need for some of them, maybe it is doing more good then harm for some of them.

I saw how happy they were to accept the stupid BS they were being told about how the Basics were changing the world more then anything ever in the history of Earth. I thought how hard it would be to be the one to burst that bubble. How cruel to let them in on what I now know.

Then I saw the crap dished out recently by the OSA troll. I witness the calm and intelligence of DCA responding to it. I saw that Scientology at it's best is still tainted beyond belief and Zinj's words come back to me. "It's always worse than you think." Our friends need to be informed. They don't know there is a world outside their cartoon philosophy. They are convinced that harm is help. It's much worse then I ever imagined.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Thing was, for me and probably for a number of other people, when I got into Scn and CofS, I didn't think I was "joining" anything. I thought I was taking courses and getting auditing and that the people were nice and all that sort of thing.

People don't necessarily join CofS to join a cult. They don't always realize they are joining a group (there are exceptions to this, I'm sure) and they don't always do it to make life simpler. For some, it's a spiritual avocation. For others, it's a save the world type thing. I don't think those things are simple.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Thing was, for me and probably for a number of other people, when I got into Scn and CofS, I didn't think I was "joining" anything. I thought I was taking courses and getting auditing and that the people were nice and all that sort of thing.

People don't necessarily join CofS to join a cult. They don't always realize they are joining a group (there are exceptions to this, I'm sure) and they don't always do it to make life simpler. For some, it's a spiritual avocation. For others, it's a save the world type thing. I don't think those things are simple.

"THE SINGLE SOURCE OF ABERRATION..."

"The only reason a person becomes confused or unable to learn...."

"The goal of every living thing is SURVIVE!"

Can you think of any more simplistic answers that you adopted from Scientology when you were first getting involved?

Just like Hubbard said, Scientology provided STABLE DATA in the CONFUSION of life.

It was later that we learned that "the degree of complexity is directly proportional to the ability to confront", etc and other dead agent tactics that were designed to shut down thinking and keep it shut down.

At first, though, those simplistic answers were exactly what we wanted.

Or else you would have thought "the Basics" were horseshit - like most people did - and you never would have arrived.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
It was the emphasis on simplicity, and the obvious dislike of intellectuals that rubbed me wrong, early on. That stayed with me. Easy answers and stable data might get a person focused, but that focus might be wrong! This always bothered me. What if the focus is wrong? It was part of the keys to my escape.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thing was, for me and probably for a number of other people, when I got into Scn and CofS, I didn't think I was "joining" anything. I thought I was taking courses and getting auditing and that the people were nice and all that sort of thing.

Wow. Exactly. We may disagree on some things, but we can be free to disagree. Awesome. This was just spot-on with me.
 
It was the emphasis on simplicity, and the obvious dislike of intellectuals that rubbed me wrong, early on. That stayed with me. Easy answers and stable data might get a person focused, but that focus might be wrong! This always bothered me. What if the focus is wrong? It was part of the keys to my escape.

Bingo! :thumbsup: Me too.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

justaguy

Patron Meritorious
A cult is a simplistic solution to a complex problem.

YES.

A while ago I made a thread where I tried to make this point. But Alanzo here has to come along a month later and just lay it all out all clear for everyone to see where I had to struggle.

Curse you Alanzo!

And thanks. :)

Also, wow. So that's truthseeker. The things I missed while my Internet was down.
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
YES.

A while ago I made a thread where I tried to make this point. But Alanzo here has to come along a month later and just lay it all out all clear for everyone to see where I had to struggle.

I know. I simply stole it from you, re-packaged it, and re-sold it under the Alanzo Brand (r).

I didn't forget EVERYTHING L Ron Hubbard taught me!
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, duh, of course. My point is that when a person is just taking a course here and there or went to a Book 1 seminar, it's not evident and does not affect him.


Pizza and beer for everyone! We deserve it :cheers: and we don't have to be "sessionable" tomorrow.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Nobody ever really asked what my position was on ECT.

I would hope that I would never need something like that, or anybody else.

That's my position.

I for one sensed that asking for your position would have ruined the game.
 

ThisFenceHurts

Patron with Honors
As-is

What's funny is that Scientologists who post here obviously do not believe anything about their tech of as-isness, ridges, ARC breaks, invalidation, BPC, etc. Oh well, maybe everyone who has posted here from the church will eventually receive auditing and we can all receive the benefits, a la the Suppressed Person Rundown! :happydance:
 

Veda

Sponsor
What's funny is that Scientologists who post here obviously do not believe anything about their tech of as-isness, ridges, ARC breaks, invalidation, BPC, etc. Oh well, maybe everyone who has posted here from the church will eventually receive auditing and we can all receive the benefits, a la the Suppressed Person Rundown! :happydance:

It's an old pattern to send out an overt, obnoxious - somewhat dumb - Scientologist (who can eventually be disowned as being "out tech" and "off policy," etc.), and also send out a slick ARC-full, validating, as-isness-utilizing, BPC-indicating and resolving Scientologist.

The identity presented might be "Scientologist," or "not with the Church of Scientology" but a "Scientologist" (used by Flash), or no longer a member but defends Hubbard, or defends Scientology, the "Bridge," etc.; but both the overt (obnoxious) identity, and the (more covert) identity would be proponents of Scientology.

To be in accordance with Hubbard's "Scientology Intelligence tech," it would be expected that there would be "multiple channels" used, or that at least three avenues of influence, or (overt&covert) attack occur simultaneously or in near succession (working together).

To the extent that the benign component (the "lubrication") of the Scientology machine is lacking, the more destructive components with have their function impaired.

The benign "mental healing" aspect of Scientology is essential for the full and effective operation of Scientology, as its founder planned it, and- right now - under Miscavige, that aspect has been devitalized somewhat, and, thus, the effectiveness of the 'Destructive Cult' of Scientology has been reduced somewhat.

Only somewhat - since the "slick" element is still there, using faux-ARC, etc., and the well-meaning (sincere) tech persons are still around (although in fewer numbers) to be used as dupes.

So, the cult machine keeps running, but not at its full, early 1970s, clip, when it was more dangerous and destructive than it is today; but it was -then - dangerous and destructive with a compartmentalized membership, who were mostly clueless to much of the abuse.

Now, with the anal-retentive Miscavige in charge, the cult machine is running at half-capacity. Some think that's a shame, and would love to see Scientology reformed back to the "good old days" of the 1970s, before Miscavige.

It's not likely the "good old days" will return, of course. Too much has changed. So much information has become available, yet information can begin to disappear, or be ignored, or become lost in a sea of other information (including disinformation). For example, thousands of pages of material became available (although not easily available) as a result of a 1979/1980 (Snow White case-related) federal court order, but only a tiny fraction has made it to the Internet, and there has never been - that I know of - a full public archive easily made available.

There are some summations, an analyses and, perhaps, 1% of the documents (mostly the key Hubbard writings) have become available on the Net, and that's a vast improvement over the "good old days" (pre-Miscavige) when almost of of this material was kept from public view.

Other areas of Scientology have also been exposed - to varying extent - such as (much, but not all of) the Sea Org materials. For example, Hubbard wrote some things just for his (mostly female) "Commodore's Messengers," and I've yet to see any of it on the Net.

And to clarify, the Sea Org was traditionally concerned with "internal," while the Guardians Office (now OSA) was concerned with "external," and the (supposed) absorption of the G.O/OSA into the Sea Org was, IMO, a protective action, and to a large extent a "cover," to create the impression of "reform." Sea Org is still primarily "internal," and G.O/OSA is still, primarily "external." And the Sea Org has had no (1977) FBI search warrants to expose (many, not all) of its secret materials/documents, yet a fair amount of Sea Org material has been leaked over the years, and many have told of their experiences.

Yet there's more yet unseen, in all areas.

Back to the initial point: It may seem as though Scientology consists of only fumbling clods, but it's wise to remember its "successes." It's wise, also, to consider that some of its "successes" are done quietly, and go unknown by all but a few.

How many people have been silenced by Scientology? We can count the ones that we know of, but the rest?

And what of the new breed of "modern Scientologist," who's aware of the Internet, is aware of much of the "entheta" on it, but doesn't care?

Such a person will say, "So what if Ron did this or that, he was super-Kha Khan, for the Tech works! and without the tech we are all doomed. And the Church of Scientology is the only one with all the tech," etc. It's not likely such a person will leave Scientology, or renounce it (sincerely) just because Miscavige has a particular definition for a floating needle, or because of "6 month checks" for those on NOTs, etc., or because some minor changes were made in books, or due to abusive fundraising for buildings (after all, "crush sell," which is almost as bad, has been occurring since the 1960s), etc.

As an example, take the guys who constitute the musical group, "The Jive Aces." These guys are exposed to the outside world to a fair extent, can examine the Internet if they please, yet, apparently, it doesn't matter to them.

They are the new breed of Scientologist, who know about many things and really don't mind.
 
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