Endless NOTs

[Ralph Hilton]

To state that OT3 or NOTs is possible to complete as a level is basically a lie as both audit at effect. BTs and clusters must, in accordance with axiom 2, be fixed in place by attention and/or intention. The Pre-OT is running the body - BTs etc are not strong enough to stick themselves against the intention of the Pre-OT. All that can hold a BT there is a postulate of the guy in charge.
It therefore follows that NOTs can only be run to a key-out and is unstable.
OT8 is intended to stabilize a being somewhat by getting him out of the valence of BTs that have blown - he finds out who and what he isn't.
To put the person at cause over the factors which bring about a NOTs case necessitates addressing the person's own causativeness.
A level that would do that would need to have a person examine the fixed postulates which they have used to solve the unsolvable conditions experienced on the track. Such postulates give the BTs something to stick to. They come at the end of the person's actual GPMs. In common parlance they are known as ser facs.
When one level is completed there is a tendency to dramatize the next one.
It is my contention that Scientology organizationally and the FZ are dramatizing the next level which is handling their whole track ser facs.
It would be OT10. OT9 would be aimed at expanding a person's attention to cover the space and time of the whole track.

 

[alex]

To state that OT3 or NOTs is possible to complete as a level is basically a lie as both audit at effect. BTs and clusters must, in accordance with axiom 2, be fixed in place by attention and/or intention. The Pre-OT is running the body - BTs etc are not strong enough to stick themselves against the intention of the Pre-OT. All that can hold a BT there is a postulate of the guy in charge.
It therefore follows that NOTs can only be run to a key-out and is unstable.
OT8 is intended to stabilize a being somewhat by getting him out of the valence of BTs that have blown - he finds out who and what he isn't.
To put the person at cause over the factors which bring about a NOTs case necessitates addressing the person's own causativeness.
A level that would do that would need to have a person examine the fixed postulates which they have used to solve the unsolvable conditions experienced on the track. Such postulates give the BTs something to stick to. They come at the end of the person's actual GPMs. In common parlance they are known as ser facs.
When one level is completed there is a tendency to dramatize the next one.
It is my contention that Scientology organizationally and the FZ are dramatizing the next level which is handling their whole track ser facs.
It would be OT10. OT9 would be aimed at expanding a person's attention to cover the space and time of the whole track.

Yes. This reinforces my notion that "the bridge" or for that matter any effective methodology for acquiring wisdom or enlightenment, is mearly a bootstrap process of moving up into each successive step, to the point when what was thought of as case before is no longer significant.


At some point what is significant would fully be a matter of choice rather than previously considered automaticities.

alex

 

[petal]

To state that OT3 or NOTs is possible to complete as a level is basically a lie as both audit at effect. BTs and clusters must, in accordance with axiom 2, be fixed in place by attention and/or intention. The Pre-OT is running the body - BTs etc are not strong enough to stick themselves against the intention of the Pre-OT. All that can hold a BT there is a postulate of the guy in charge.
It therefore follows that NOTs can only be run to a key-out and is unstable.
OT8 is intended to stabilize a being somewhat by getting him out of the valence of BTs that have blown - he finds out who and what he isn't.
To put the person at cause over the factors which bring about a NOTs case necessitates addressing the person's own causativeness.
A level that would do that would need to have a person examine the fixed postulates which they have used to solve the unsolvable conditions experienced on the track. Such postulates give the BTs something to stick to. They come at the end of the person's actual GPMs. In common parlance they are known as ser facs.
When one level is completed there is a tendency to dramatize the next one.
It is my contention that Scientology organizationally and the FZ are dramatizing the next level which is handling their whole track ser facs.
It would be OT10. OT9 would be aimed at expanding a person's attention to cover the space and time of the whole track.

What you are suggesting is that the "actual GPMs" have not been toutched?! And the ser facs are on the end of this chain?
Aren't the ser facs dealt with on grade IV?

petal

 

[Leon-2]

CBR's Excalibur is, in my opinion, far far superior to NOTs, and should be done instead of that. Leads to a better end product too.

GPMs are still a problem, particularly the major shifts that occur between the ending of one GPM cycle and the start of the next. Here I think some sort of combining of Dennis Stephens' TROM technique and Pilot's plotting out of your own GPMs is the way forward.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

To state that OT3 or NOTs is possible to complete as a level is basically a lie as both audit at effect. BTs and clusters must, in accordance with axiom 2, be fixed in place by attention and/or intention. The Pre-OT is running the body - BTs etc are not strong enough to stick themselves against the intention of the Pre-OT. All that can hold a BT there is a postulate of the guy in charge.
It therefore follows that NOTs can only be run to a key-out and is unstable.
OT8 is intended to stabilize a being somewhat by getting him out of the valence of BTs that have blown - he finds out who and what he isn't.
To put the person at cause over the factors which bring about a NOTs case necessitates addressing the person's own causativeness.
A level that would do that would need to have a person examine the fixed postulates which they have used to solve the unsolvable conditions experienced on the track. Such postulates give the BTs something to stick to. They come at the end of the person's actual GPMs. In common parlance they are known as ser facs.
When one level is completed there is a tendency to dramatize the next one.
It is my contention that Scientology organizationally and the FZ are dramatizing the next level which is handling their whole track ser facs.
It would be OT10. OT9 would be aimed at expanding a person's attention to cover the space and time of the whole track.

Like a liquor salesman at an AA meeting Shirley you can't be serious



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7qoonzTCE

 

[MattD]

Like a liquor salesman at an AA meeting Shirley you can't be serious

Oh Boy! Posting in a Necro thread!

OP was 2007 when this forum was quite different.

 

[eldritch cuckoo]

Oh Boy! Posting in a Necro thread!

OP was 2007 when this forum was quite different.

Hey, halloween is near...

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Oh Boy! Posting in a Necro thread!

OP was 2007 when this forum was quite different.

somethings are just timelessly funny


Happy Halloween

 

[Dave B.]

It's interesting to me how primitive NOTS is. Never done it. But time moves on and the Open Source Paradigm moves forward while $cientology is stuck in pioneer buckskins. It's like a Model T. When you got a '85 Mustang, (remember the ugly ones?) The Mustang http://spiritual-rescue-technology.com/ will get you there faster and smoother.

 

[Balthasar]

I did Excalibur at Rons Org in the eighties and I can tell you the "BTs" were definitely gone. It wasn't endless. It just took months. I was in session every day about 2 hours in a row until I had the floating TA at the end of each session. I audited every day and people changed around me. People I didn't feel good having around me previously, suddenly became my friends and invited me into their home. It was amazing!

Anyway, that were just the side effects of my auditing. One day - I was again in session, my program on Excalibur was far from finished - suddenly the whole remaining NOTs case literally vanished within seconds. I had a persistent floating TA and there was nothing in my space. It was like I expanded infinitely. To say I audited out all "BT's" would be a ridiculous understatement. I don't like the word BT, I prefer "life unit" or something similar. So all what appeared to be BTs vanished. But it was more than just vanishing. The actual source, the reason why BTs were connected to me has been completely removed.

One of the unofficial EPs of Excalibur is that a third party, this is to say another person(s) or external circumstances are unable to cause restimulation. In my case this turned out to be true. Once I got a kick out of hanging out in an Org. That was 20 years after completing Excal. During my tenure they gave me an HCO Sec Check twice without notice. Just grabbed me and here we go "I don't audit you" etc. Both times there was no read whatsoever - just floating needle all the way through. It surprised me because I thought, something must read here. I even thought at the things she (it was a she who sec checked) was asking me. I have no training to trick the E-meter nor did I attempt to trick.

Anyway I thought, well that's freaking great! The guys at Rons Org didn't bullshit me on this one!

I don't remember now what the Axiom 2 is and in fact I couldn't care less. Neither are GPM's my cup of tea and I am sure I don't have any of these things. Some others might have them, I for sure don't. It's perhaps different to each person depending to what one was exposed.

Having said all the above, I do admit that OT3 is inherently flawed and NOTs don't get me started on this one. I wouldn't even audit a dog with it

 

[strativarius]

I did Excalibur at Rons Org in the eighties and I can tell you the "BTs" were definitely gone. It wasn't endless. It just took months. I was in session every day about 2 hours in a row until I had the floating TA at the end of each session. I audited every day and people changed around me. People I didn't feel good having around me previously, suddenly became my friends and invited me into their home. It was amazing!
<snip>
Having said all the above, I do admit that OT3 is inherently flawed and NOTs don't get me started on this one. I wouldn't even audit a dog with it

Great success story on auditing Excalibur Balthasar. Just as a matter of interest, what exactly are the 'inherent flaws' in OT III, something that happened 75,000,000 years ago?

 

[lotus]

BTs and clusters must, in accordance with axiom 2, be fixed in place by attention and/or intention. The Pre-OT is running the body - BTs etc are not strong enough to stick themselves against the intention of the Pre-OT. All that can hold a BT there is a postulate of the guy in charge.

But but but
Can they stick on a mirror ?????

Unprecedented order of magnitude valuable theta data to be shared with

''The thetan in the mirror'' Lady

 

[Demented LRH]

To state that OT3 or NOTs is possible to complete as a level is basically a lie as both audit at effect. BTs and clusters must, in accordance with axiom 2, be fixed in place by attention and/or intention. The Pre-OT is running the body - BTs etc are not strong enough to stick themselves against the intention of the Pre-OT. All that can hold a BT there is a postulate of the guy in charge.
It therefore follows that NOTs can only be run to a key-out and is unstable.
OT8 is intended to stabilize a being somewhat by getting him out of the valence of BTs that have blown - he finds out who and what he isn't.
To put the person at cause over the factors which bring about a NOTs case necessitates addressing the person's own causativeness.
A level that would do that would need to have a person examine the fixed postulates which they have used to solve the unsolvable conditions experienced on the track. Such postulates give the BTs something to stick to. They come at the end of the person's actual GPMs. In common parlance they are known as ser facs.
When one level is completed there is a tendency to dramatize the next one.
It is my contention that Scientology organizationally and the FZ are dramatizing the next level which is handling their whole track ser facs.
It would be OT10. OT9 would be aimed at expanding a person's attention to cover the space and time of the whole track.

This OT terminology is beyond me. I know one thing, though -- the OT 8 material on based on Hubbard's book, A history of Man, which covers the whole track. As Tony Ortega suggested, and I inclined to believe him, OT 8 is the highest OT level, OT 9 and OT 10 levels do not exist.

 

[petal]

I did Excalibur at Rons Org in the eighties and I can tell you the "BTs" were definitely gone. It wasn't endless. It just took months. I was in session every day about 2 hours in a row until I had the floating TA at the end of each session. I audited every day and people changed around me. People I didn't feel good having around me previously, suddenly became my friends and invited me into their home. It was amazing!

Anyway, that were just the side effects of my auditing. One day - I was again in session, my program on Excalibur was far from finished - suddenly the whole remaining NOTs case literally vanished within seconds. I had a persistent floating TA and there was nothing in my space. It was like I expanded infinitely. To say I audited out all "BT's" would be a ridiculous understatement. I don't like the word BT, I prefer "life unit" or something similar. So all what appeared to be BTs vanished. But it was more than just vanishing. The actual source, the reason why BTs were connected to me has been completely removed.

One of the unofficial EPs of Excalibur is that a third party, this is to say another person(s) or external circumstances are unable to cause restimulation. In my case this turned out to be true. Once I got a kick out of hanging out in an Org. That was 20 years after completing Excal. During my tenure they gave me an HCO Sec Check twice without notice. Just grabbed me and here we go "I don't audit you" etc. Both times there was no read whatsoever - just floating needle all the way through. It surprised me because I thought, something must read here. I even thought at the things she (it was a she who sec checked) was asking me. I have no training to trick the E-meter nor did I attempt to trick.

Anyway I thought, well that's freaking great! The guys at Rons Org didn't bullshit me on this one!

I don't remember now what the Axiom 2 is and in fact I couldn't care less. Neither are GPM's my cup of tea and I am sure I don't have any of these things. Some others might have them, I for sure don't. It's perhaps different to each person depending to what one was exposed.

Having said all the above, I do admit that OT3 is inherently flawed and NOTs don't get me started on this one. I wouldn't even audit a dog with it

Yes bar:
A great success story. I don't knoe anything about the ron's orgs really or Excalibur. I do agree the the otIII and NOTs didn't work. I, as I've said before reached a peak on OTII after that it was all down hill. I am really just washing my Spiritual face every day with the auditing now. Is there any thing new out there?

petal

 

[MattD]

Now all we need is Mystic in the thread.

He's the one who helped Bill Robertson write up the 48 OT levels of the CBR Excalibur



Much to his embarrasment I think.

 

[MattD]

This OT terminology is beyond me. I know one thing, though -- the OT 8 material on based on Hubbard's book, A history of Man, which covers the whole track. As Tony Ortega suggested, and I inclined to believe him, OT 8 is the highest OT level, OT 9 and OT 10 levels do not exist.

I think if you read the various write-ups of what the church delivers/delivered called OT 8, it had little to do with "History of Man" and more to do with identity confusion from being associated with various and sundry "body thetans" over long periods of time.

If you wanted to run "History of Man" type stuff, perhaps L. Kin's genetic entity process's would be more the thing.

I think both Ralph Hilton (the OP) and Pierre Eithier both have versions of OT 9 based on Hubbards work, although Pierre claims that the church is only delivering half of OT 8 and will probably deliver the other half as 9.

 

[MattD]

Great success story on auditing Excalibur Balthasar. Just as a matter of interest, what exactly are the 'inherent flaws' in OT III, something that happened 75,000,000 years ago?

Though I am not Balthasar, I will venture to say the the inherent flaws in OT3 is that it is an evaluation of a persons case to tell them the content to run.

When told what is ones mind, a person being audited may well just create it, as an easier way to complete the process. Given a choice, I think it is human nature to do what they are told rather than really digging deep and figuring it out for themselves, in a situation of trust at least.



Was that what you were meaning Balthasar? Or objecting to the reality of the content of the event?

 

[strativarius]

Though I am not Balthasar, I will venture to say the the inherent flaws in OT3 is that it is an evaluation of a persons case to tell them the content to run.

When told what is ones mind, a person being audited may well just create it, as an easier way to complete the process. Given a choice, I think it is human nature to do what they are told rather than really digging deep and figuring it out for themselves, in a situation of trust at least.

The fact that it is a totally ficticious account of an incident alleged to have taken place 75,000,000 years ago featuring an evil tyrant called Xenu and a bunch of space cooties, hydrogen bombs, DC 8's and ice cubes isn't a flaw then?

 

[MattD]

The fact that it is a totally ficticious account of an incident alleged to have taken place 75,000,000 years ago featuring an evil tyrant called Xenu and a bunch of space cooties, hydrogen bombs, DC 8's and ice cubes isn't a flaw then?

Well quite honestly I don't know for a fact that it didn't happen. I find the idea of freezing "thetans" in glycol highly unlikely. But I do not have verifiable facts on my side to be certain it didn't happen.

But the whole of what you reference is surely an evaluation, a pre determined set of things to be taken on faith, and that I am sure is contrary to basic scientology.

I am not in a position to determine the truth or fallaciousness of things 75 million years ago. Your abilities may vary.

 

[strativarius]

Well quite honestly I don't know for a fact that it didn't happen. I find the idea of freezing "thetans" in glycol highly unlikely. But I do not have verifiable facts on my side to be certain it didn't happen.

But the whole of what you reference is surely an evaluation, a pre determined set of things to be taken on faith, and that I am sure is contrary to basic scientology.

I am not in a position to determine the truth or fallaciousness of things 75 million years ago. Your abilities may vary.

Ok Matt, let's just agree to differ.