ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Engrams, The Reactive Mind and Clear

Discussion in 'Grundy's Guide to Scientology' started by grundy, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Thanks for persisting, I know I'm not God's brightest little candle. I'm really just trying to get a handle on Body Thetans. The theory I'm working on is that all of Scientology is a "dangling carrot" system - first the communication course, then Engrams, then Clear, then its onto the Body Thetans.

    No, I didn't read Paul's OP - but Quote For Excellence:


    . . . okay, so once I've eliminated sufficient Engrams so as to be able to perceive that I am mocking up my reactive mind - (25 times a second - whew!!) - what is the "carrot" between Clear and OTIII?
     
  2. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    That'd be the promised "Freedom From Overwhelm" upon completing OT3, the Wall Of Fire carrot.
    Most people in scientology have their attention firmly fixated on that.
    Get yourself a copy of The Grade Chart, all the carrots are there in the Abilities Gained column.

    PS: I happen to think you're bright! :)
     
  3. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    That's because, as regards the subject of scientology, you've got the emphasis backwards. BT's are a minor part of the tech of scientology. Although they do drive a major part of the Co$ income. They could actually be left out as a subject with little real impairment to the tech. The emphasis on "bt tech" within the church came in with the SO and other clear evidences of Hubbard's deteriorating condition.

    This is not to say that there is not something to be had from dealing with the phenomena which appertain to "bts". In one fashion or another many spiritual traditions seem to recognize them. But it seems likely that most of what the Co$ pushes in that vein is faulty at best and potentially dangerous especially within the environment created by Co$ officials.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  4. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Au contraire. What drives people to persist with the tech - and remain within the cult - is that making progress up the Bridge is mankind's only hope if we are to be freed from this prison planet. I suggest, a deconstruction of why Earth is a prison planet would reveal that the premise is false and, in fact, the reverse is true: it is Scientology which is the prison. After all, if you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one.

    As to whether my approach is arse-about-face, again, I disagree. When proving a theory, one starts with the end phenomena and then documents the steps, with proof, that lead to it. Scientolgy, again, is the reverse because it presents steps along the way in such a manner as to twist perception so as to manufacture "certainty". The PC goes from one delusion to another until they reach the "master" delusion, at which stage, the reason why and means to free mankind are "revealed".


    ORLY? And which of these "many spiritual traditions" involve alien life forms brought to Earth by an Evil Intergalactic Overlord in DC8s?

    I'm not buying the idea that puddling about in the OT material is "dangerous". I suspect its a myth perpetuated by those seeking to maintain a mystique and general air of the "guru" about them. I have no doubt that it is the L Ron Hubbard tech as delivered in the Church environment which drives some people potty, but out here in the wild such warnings are little more than attempts to scare the children.
     
  5. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Not mine or that of several others whom I know I can assure you. Unless you are speaking of your own experience ... (which frankly I doubt or you wouldn't be asking so many ill-informed questions) .





    Nothing in my comment suggests any such thing. You clearly have an inability to separate your own obsessions from the comments of others.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  6. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Scientology 101: When confronted with undeniable facts and/or irrefutable logic, apply ad homs.
     
  7. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    If you can't respond intelligently to another's remarks you shouldn't be terribly surprised when your own remarks are discounted as not germane.


    Mark A. Baker :)
     
  8. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Now where was I - ah yes - the "dangling carrot" that leads from Affinity to Engrams to Clear - to Overwhelm - to Body Thetans. I'm still not sure I have an adequate handle on these Body Thetans.

    HCOB 29 Jan 1980 The OT Drug Run Down states, inter alia:

    Couple of questions. What is a "cluster" - is it a group of two more BTs somehow joined together and, of so, what is the agent of cohesion?

    As more of an aside, I note the above extract seems to indicate that a person taking drugs (medicinal or recreational) is actually making the whole Body Thetan issue worse. Would this be part of the reason why Scientology rejects medicine as innocuous as even aspirin (statin)?
     
  10. AlphOhm

    AlphOhm Traveler of time/space

    [​IMG]


    Opps, sorry--misread thread title as "Reactive Ingrams"...
     
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    By jove, I think he's got it!

    Scientology in 25 words or less, here goes....lol:


    Engrams wrecked you. Scientology erases engrams and you go Clear.
    BTs really wrecked you. Scientology blows BTs and you go OT.
    None of it works. ​
     
  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    To anyone who has not studied and/or done the OT levels:

    Mark Baker is either incapable of understanding Hubbard's work or he is lying. Or both.

    Either way, this is the exact type of acceptable buffoonery and con game that Hubbard played on others.
     
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I am disappointed. I was hoping you would post just ONE more thing for Baker to respond to.

    You nearly got the third leg of his standard response tech.

    If you had posted just one itsy teensie little post more he would have completed the tryptych attack with words to the effect that:

    Your delusional psychological lapses in criticizing Hubbard speak more to your grave and deteriorating mental illness than to Hubbard's stellar accomplishments."


    It's very predictable and entertaining to watch him try to squirm out of the same corner, time and time again with the same footbullets.
     
  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    LOL ... it's not so much a carrot ... as a threat!

    In the end it is just a marketing strategy in which BT's feature very heavily!

    :yes:
     
  15. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    HH! Stop that! :typing: :stickpoke: Please.
    :duck:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  16. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Hehe!! You must have missed this one:

    See, I'm ill-informed, disabled, and obsessed. He managed to get the insinuations in, and then followed it up with:

    Ooooh . . . cave me in, baby, I love it when you're rough, hurt me, I'm naughty, you know I need it, do it some more, you make it sooooo good . . . ahhh, that's it baby, I'm nearly there . . .

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Eeeek!! These Body Thetans certainly are pesky critters to get a handle on. I see from the OTIII material that there are three different type: Loyal Officers, Out-of-this-universe beings, and Earth dwellers. Not only that, the poor OT who learns this is forced into an agreement with it by having to decide which one of the three groups they belong to!!

    If it was me, I wouldn't decide until I was told which had the best uniform.
     
  18. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Oh, Look! It's a cat impersonating a TR8C ashtray!
     
  19. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    My cat could do that until he hit 27 lbs.
     
  20. Ulf K. Maier

    Ulf K. Maier Patron Meritorious

    I'm Clear, too...

    That is, I am clear on the fact that it's all in the mind... if you let it.