ERRORS and Gaps of the Scientology Statistic System

screamer2

Idiot Bastardson
All one has to do is to apply the admin 'tech' that includes the 'stats' in an isolated instance such as for a single sales position to discover that it CANNOT work as hubbard claimed. It's a recipe for failure. Big failure. Epic failure. Need more proof? Look at the orgs. Look at $cientology itself.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Moonlighting may be frowned upon now, it wasn't in the 70's and 80's.

Back when I was on staff, I worked my regular job in the day, then staff nights and weekends. Finally got burned out after a while.

I get the impression that they currently discourage having married couples where one works and the other is on staff, which seems one of the only ways to survive long term.
Yes, I'd forgotten how I survived being on staff and not being paid, but it was through 'moonlighting'.

Tottenham Court Road (the street London Org was on) is near the equivalent to New York's Broadway (theatreland), and it was in the theatres that a lot of us full-time staff worked as stagehands, changing the scenery between acts and being general dogsbodies. I quite enjoyed it and it was a pleasure to get away from the constant grind of the org.
 
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TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
All one has to do is to apply the admin 'tech' that includes the 'stats' in an isolated instance such as for a single sales position to discover that it CANNOT work as hubbard claimed. It's a recipe for failure. Big failure. Epic failure. Need more proof? Look at the orgs. Look at $cientology itself.
I hear ya, but if Scientology is in a lower condition it isn't because the Admin Tech and the stat system is wrong - it's because it isn't being applied correctly.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I hear ya, but if Scientology is in a lower condition it isn't because the Admin Tech and the stat system is wrong - it's because it isn't being applied correctly.
On the contrary, Scientology, applied exactly per LRH, results in exactly what has happened.

Or are you saying that not one Scientology group, independent or otherwise, has been able to "correctly apply" Scientology -- because the failure is universal. No Scientology group is "flourishing and prospering".

And if that's what you're claiming -- that no Scientology group has applied it correctly -- that says something important about the "tech", doesn't it?
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
On the contrary, Scientology, applied exactly per LRH, results in exactly what has happened.

Or are you saying that not one Scientology group, independent or otherwise, has been able to "correctly apply" Scientology -- because the failure is universal. No Scientology group is "flourishing and prospering".

And if that's what you're claiming -- that no Scientology group has applied it correctly -- that says something important about the "tech", doesn't it?
All good points. I'm being facetious of course. KSW conveniently provides all the necessary rationalizations for Scientology's failures.

Company Scientologists and Indies have rationalized this in their own minds. To Organized Scientologyists it must be a fault in the application. When it all collapses true believers will say there were just too many SPs. If the correct Admin Tech were correctly applied they would have been discovered and handled. To Indies DM has corrupted it. To exes it was always inherently self destructive and Miscavige is almost exactly the kind of successor Hubbard wanted because he recognized many of his own qualities in Miscavige.

I say almost, because he is basically an uber thug, whereas Hubbard was a thuggish yet sophisticated manipulative con artist. But even he had to work with what he had. I think TC's famous KSW video rant pretty much sums up the state of affairs. Without an understanding of Hubbard's masterly use and understanding of the con all you are left with is KSW Fundamentalism and competing over who is more KSWish than the other. Scientology has devolved into a dystopian drama. That was always it's destiny.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
Moonlighting may be frowned upon now, it wasn't in the 70's and 80's.

Back when I was on staff, I worked my regular job in the day, then staff nights and weekends. Finally got burned out after a while.

I get the impression that they currently discourage having married couples where one works and the other is on staff, which seems one of the only ways to survive long term.
I was on staff 80 to 90, don't know about now, but what you say seems to amount to the same thing. ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ENERGY, then, bugg off
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I was on staff 80 to 90, don't know about now, but what you say seems to amount to the same thing. ALL OF YOUR TIME AND ENERGY, then, bugg off
I thought a bit about what you said about what I said. I get the feeling that the actual goal, with regards to Scientologists and staff, was along the lines of

To consume them, utterly.

Scientology was constructed to totally consume people. Anything which allowed people to be in Scientology, and personally win, was shut down over time. The thing was set up to take everything you had, everything you were, and devour you. Any resistance, any hint that you had the right to keep part of yourself, to follow your own goals, to seek your own happiness --- well, that was "out ethics" and stomped upon. Can't have that.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
I thought a bit about what you said about what I said. I get the feeling that the actual goal, with regards to Scientologists and staff, was along the lines of

To consume them, utterly.

Scientology was constructed to totally consume people. Anything which allowed people to be in Scientology, and personally win, was shut down over time. The thing was set up to take everything you had, everything you were, and devour you. Any resistance, any hint that you had the right to keep part of yourself, to follow your own goals, to seek your own happiness --- well, that was "out ethics" and stomped upon. Can't have that.
While I have to agree that there were people in the organization that operated just that way, most who did act that way didn't want to use you up, just keep you as an energy source. No doubt there were those who wanted just as you say, chew you up and spit you out. I do not think the subject was set up to do that from the start though. Too bad it has developed into an inverted picture.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
While I have to agree that there were people in the organization that operated just that way, most who did act that way didn't want to use you up, just keep you as an energy source. No doubt there were those who wanted just as you say, chew you up and spit you out. I do not think the subject was set up to do that from the start though. Too bad it has developed into an inverted picture.
At the bottom, we mostly had good people who joined because they wanted to help. The further up you went, the more ruthless psychopaths you found. Until you got to LRH and DM .
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
At the bottom, we mostly had good people who joined because they wanted to help. The further up you went, the more ruthless psychopaths you found. Until you got to LRH and DM .
I am not so sure that LRH was part of the BS at the beginning but after the mid to late 60s I think he went over the edge. Great forces were conspiring against him. You could say he might have been pretty PTS on a scale of magnitude you and I have not experienced.

As far as DM!!!!!!!! The proof is in the pudding.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am not so sure that LRH was part of the BS at the beginning but after the mid to late 60s I think he went over the edge. Great forces were conspiring against him. You could say he might have been pretty PTS on a scale of magnitude you and I have not experienced.

As far as DM!!!!!!!! The proof is in the pudding.
Buuut...you don't go PTS unless you are out-ethics so maybe the magnitude of PTSness was proportional to the degree of out-ethics.

“What you fear you become.” - LRH
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Buuut...you don't go PTS unless you are out-ethics so maybe the magnitude of PTSness was proportional to the degree of out-ethics.

“What you fear you become.” - LRH
SP',s PTS etc. etc. they're simply elements of Hubbard's 'science of the mind' and don't exist in the real world.

"What you fear you become the effect of." - LRH
 
I am not so sure that LRH was part of the BS at the beginning but after the mid to late 60s I think he went over the edge. Great forces were conspiring against him. You could say he might have been pretty PTS on a scale of magnitude you and I have not experienced.

As far as DM!!!!!!!! The proof is in the pudding.
Wait - he was PTS? How bout motivating? ( Scio for self created bad Karma) I mean, can't you see - if he is committing fraud on a massive scale, and the feds and HRH's police were after him such that he had to hide out in a boat on the high seas, would you characterize that as PTS? No. How bout fear of consequences of repercussions of his crimes?

He knew damn well, he was one step away from jail. How else can you explain why he was always on the run, formed an attack dog division to keep adversaries at bay, had off shore accounts, and via Snow White tried to unearth, the "wog" data base of his crimes?

Mimsey
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
SP',s PTS etc. etc. they're simply elements of Hubbard's 'science of the mind' and don't exist in the real world.

"What you fear you become the effect of." - LRH
I tried to find a source reference for this quote to no avail but I remember thinking about this when I first studied it. It has been a long time and I may have this wrong but maybe others can chime in and fill in the gaps. Doesn't this trace back to the Service Facsimile? As in this thing that a person fears is a stuck picture and because the thetan is looking at it so much they become it.

There is also the valence thing where in order to survive the thetan takes on the valence of the thing that is surviving which may be the person or thing suppressing them.

I can see where LRH would say "What you fear you become the effect of" but I'm pretty sure he also said "What you fear you become".

Edit: As I recall the quote was on a tape.
 
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Koot

Patron with Honors
Buuut...you don't go PTS unless you are out-ethics so maybe the magnitude of PTSness was proportional to the degree of out-ethics.

“What you fear you become.” - LRH
You are not taking into consideration a very big factor. YOUR CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And his too!
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
Wait - he was PTS? How bout motivating? ( Scio for self created bad Karma) I mean, can't you see - if he is committing fraud on a massive scale, and the feds and HRH's police were after him such that he had to hide out in a boat on the high seas, would you characterize that as PTS? No. How bout fear of consequences of repercussions of his crimes?

He knew damn well, he was one step away from jail. How else can you explain why he was always on the run, formed an attack dog division to keep adversaries at bay, had off shore accounts, and via Snow White tried to unearth, the "wog" data base of his crimes?

Mimsey
No arguement here
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I tried to find a source reference for this quote to no avail but I remember thinking about this when I first studied it. It has been a long time and I may have this wrong but maybe others can chime in and fill in the gaps. Doesn't this trace back to the Service Facsimile? As in this thing that a person fears is a stuck picture and because the thetan is looking at it so much they become it.

There is also the valence thing where in order to survive the thetan takes on the valence of the thing that is surviving which may be the person or thing suppressing them.

I can see where LRH would say "What you fear you become the effect of" but I'm pretty sure he also said "What you fear you become".

Edit: As I recall the quote was on a tape.
Well TOBB, all I know is that quote has been stuck in my head for over 50 years, but I'm buggered if I can remember where I first heard it or read it.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well TOBB, all I know is that quote has been stuck in my head for over 50 years, but I'm buggered if I can remember where I first heard it or read it.
You know, I'm almost envious. Sometimes I wish I could just push "delete" on all of this and there was a long period where I didn't think about it at all but once I started reading up on the internet it all came flooding back. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering the exact moment I heard that quote on a reel to reel taped lecture about Service Facs around 1978.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
You know, I'm almost envious. Sometimes I wish I could just push "delete" on all of this and there was a long period where I didn't think about it at all but once I started reading up on the internet it all came flooding back. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering the exact moment I heard that quote on a reel to reel taped lecture about Service Facs around 1978.
Well, I'm not disputing what you say for a moment. All I know is my 'version' is slightly different from yours, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

As far as recalling stuff goes, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast.
 
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