esp and the BT

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Hard to say. Could also reflect drugs, alcohol, or other conditions present among former scientologists. Many first involved themselves with the cult precisely because they knew they had such issues.


Mark A. Baker

What er you tryin to SAY? :unsure:


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Smiley_Hooker_HM14.gif
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
Might be showing my ignorance or failing memory, but I always though As-is was a verb; I have never heard of a state of as-isness.

LTG
Yeah longtimegone it was mostly used as a verb, but it was also sort of a noun--the 'condition of as-isness.'

It meant to cause somethng to vanish by seeing it exactly 'as-is.' "I as ised my ashtray, so I'm dropping ashes on the floor."

And it meant the flicker of creation, which had to be lied about to persist. "Those damn as-isnesses just don't last."

It is just nutty stuff. We really don't know what reality is. It's still being figured out.

The more you think about it the stupider it seems. You can't do anything with hubbard's 'four conditions of existence.' It usually helps to come to grips with things, as in talk therapy, but 'as-isness?' No evidence of that. It is just silly hyperbole meant to impress people. Except for coffee cups and socks--those can as-is.

john
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Might be showing my ignorance or failing memory, but I always though As-is was a verb; I have never heard of a state of as-isness.

LTG
Yeah longtimegone it was mostly used as a verb, but it was also sort of a noun--the 'condition of as-isness.'

It meant to cause somethng to vanish by seeing it exactly 'as-is.' "I as ised my ashtray, so I'm dropping ashes on the floor."

And it meant the flicker of creation, which had to be lied about to persist. "Those damn as-isnesses just don't last."

It is just nutty stuff. We really don't know what reality is. It's still being figured out.

The more you think about it the stupider it seems. You can't do anything with hubbard's 'four conditions of existence.' It usually helps to come to grips with things, as in talk therapy, but 'as-isness?' No evidence of that. It is just silly hyperbole meant to impress people. Except for coffee cups and socks--those can as-is.

john
An as-is-ness (noun) is a creation by a thetan that has no persistance -- it get as-ised (verb) as soon as it's created. To do this is (theoretically) easier than making a persistant creation; the hard part is getting it (an is-ness) to continue to exist.

There are several "tricks" to getting an isness to persist, one of which is to put a continuing motion into it (an alter-is-ness).

I Told You I Was Trouble, there's no need for you to reply.

Helena
 
Going back to the loss of memory business occurring on solo nots, umm, yeah - I had that. My wife complained about it to our FSm who said, it gets worse. I woke up one morning and could not for the life of me remember the combination to my briefcase containing my solo materials. I eventually did something that triggered the memory, but yow! That was the tip of a large iceberg in my life.

I don't know what exactly the mechanism is. I, however have 2 theories:
A) the BT's have the memories (or something to do with the preservation /retrieval of them)
B) the pre OT has ceased to create a time track

Of course, you have to presume BT's to exist ( or something that exists which is being mislabeled as BT's ) for A) to work. Something Hub yacked about was his discovery that mathematically the brain did not have enough storage room for the entirety of a person's memory, and therefor there is a time track consisting of pictures. It would exist in theta space. it could be mathematically large enough to house an infinite amount of memories.

Since one is not running engrams on solo, but asking beings /entities to decamp, there must be a relationship to them and the persons' time track, if one's memory is lessoning. They are robotic slaves to the person in charge, and if each holds some memory they regurgitate on command - Voilà - we have an answer.

I have been reading a book about the holographic aspect of both the universe around us and the mind as well. A key to understanding the holograph is that any part of a holograph can recreate the whole. Of course, the larger the piece of the holograph, the more accurate & detailed the picture is. So, if the BT's holographically contain a share of one's memory, and they all leave - you are left with a small part of the original holograph that was your memory.

B) of course, would be part and parcel of being clear, or OT 2 - that OT2 is known to and does create some effects in the mind. It would be a suspect to me, since all OTs run it to some extent. Of course, this also could be BT related, the BT's creating the time track bail and your memory tanks.

Who knows what the reason is for the memory loss is, but it is a phenomenon found on solo NOTS.

Mimsey
 
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Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
My memory, pre-Scn, was excellent. I'd even been part of a study on memory as part of a gifted program at UVA because of it. My memory, post-Scn, is bloody atrocious. Granted, aging is a factor, but my thoughts are that SO much emphasis is placed on spotting the EXACT time, place, form and event that it became a source of anxiety for me.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
My memory, pre-Scn, was excellent. I'd even been part of a study on memory as part of a gifted program at UVA because of it. My memory, post-Scn, is bloody atrocious. Granted, aging is a factor, but my thoughts are that SO much emphasis is placed on spotting the EXACT time, place, form and event that it became a source of anxiety for me.

Yep. I never did NOTs, but my memory and my IQ were shot to hell from being in the cult. I'm working on building my brain back up (thank goodness for neuroplasticity), but it's a definite pain. I have lost absolutely all concept of time; when stuff happened. I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown trying to put together my resume and luckily had a job coach who was extremely helpful and patient. I think for me that definitely just comes from the trauma of trying to get the time, place form and event ... come to think of it, if the cult ever tries to blackmail me with stuff from my folder, it would be pretty odd, because at some point I think my imagination just started inventing crazy overts because I felt so fucking guilty all the time that I figured I had to have just been an evil monster to be pulling in all that danged abuse.

Somehow, I still love dictionaries... somehow they didn't steal that joy from me. But, study tech? BAH! I thought being on TTC would be easy compared to a regular post, but I would never wish full-time study on anyone. Seriously felt like I no longer had a mind of my own. Besides just studying the materials, getting pink sheets where you had to watch a film three times in a row is enough to send anyone around the bend. I'd never survive school currently without a healthy dose of self-created mnemonics.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Going back to the loss of memory business occurring on solo nots, umm, yeah - I had that. My wife complained about it to our FSm who said, it gets worse. I woke up one morning and could not for the life of me remember the combination to my briefcase containing my solo materials. I eventually did something that triggered the memory, but yow! That was the tip of a large iceberg in my life.

I don't know what exactly the mechanism is. I, however have 2 theories:
A) the BT's have the memories (or something to do with the preservation /retrieval of them)
B) the pre OT has ceased to create a time track

Of course, you have to presume BT's to exist ( or something that exists which is being mislabeled as BT's ) for A) to work. Something Hub yacked about was his discovery that mathematically the brain did not have enough storage room for the entirety of a person's memory, and therefor there is a time track consisting of pictures. It would exist in theta space. it could be mathematically large enough to house an infinite amount of memories.

Since one is not running engrams on solo, but asking beings /entities to decamp, there must be a relationship to them and the persons' time track, if one's memory is lessoning. They are robotic slaves to the person in charge, and if each holds some memory they regurgitate on command - Voilà - we have an answer.

I have been reading a book about the holographic aspect of both the universe around us and the mind as well. A key to understanding the holograph is that any part of a holograph can recreate the whole. Of course, the larger the piece of the holograph, the more accurate & detailed the picture is. So, if the BT's holographically contain a share of one's memory, and they all leave - you are left with a small part of the original holograph that was your memory.

B) of course, would be part and parcel of being clear, or OT 2 - that OT2 is known to and does create some effects in the mind. It would be a suspect to me, since all OTs run it to some extent. Of course, this also could be BT related, the BT's creating the time track bail and your memory tanks.

Who knows what the reason is for the memory loss is, but it is a phenomenon found on solo NOTS.

Mimsey

Could also have been a self-protective measure. Deep inside you knew it was dangerous bullshit, and you were trying to forget how to do it?
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Could also have been a self-protective measure. Deep inside you knew it was dangerous bullshit, and you were trying to forget how to do it?
Could also be that the remembrance of false memories shoots all to hell your ability to remember real memories. I don't think I need to elaborate further...
 
I gave up on the place time form event, and distance etc. Doing Date locates I gave them what came up, right or wrong - or I just placed it with the significance - you know, "When was it?" "It was the time I lied to the reg about how much money I had." It made life a lot simpler.

Moving on to a thought that bothered me after I left the house after posting this morning. That is this - Hubbard makes a big deal about how we are composite beings, lugging around all manner of valences, pictures, entities etc. 3, 4, 5, 6,& 7 deal with getting rid of the entities. Did he ever stop to consider that maybe we are meant to be that way?

And here we are getting rid of parts of us we need to live in a world like this? Oy!

Sometimes I think I'd like to do some more solo 7, but now I think: What if I got rid of something I really needed and I find myself haunting Marty's house with a camera hat and a squirrel busters tee shirt? Scary thought!

Mimsey
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
That is this - Hubbard makes a big deal about how we are composite beings, lugging around all manner of valences, pictures, entities etc. 3, 4, 5, 6,& 7 deal with getting rid of the entities. Did he ever stop to consider that maybe we are meant to be that way?

And here we are getting rid of parts of us we need to live in a world like this? Oy!

Sometimes I think I'd like to do some more solo 7, but now I think: What if I got rid of something I really needed and I find myself haunting Marty's house with a camera hat and a squirrel busters tee shirt? Scary thought!

Mimsey

Yes, it is. Very scary. :omg: We were nothing more than guinea pigs in an experiment to Hubbard - we had no real concept of the terrible risks we were taking with out minds, our lives. Have you read Johnd's thread? He talks about his memory getting scrambled in scn, and he was only young then, too.

Here it is: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?27589-Johnd-s-story
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
In 1981 I remember complaing that I felt my mind had become like 'swiss cheese' with big holes in it. I remember telling my roommate who was also on course that we were messing with scrambling the parts of our minds. Need this...don't need that....move this over here...erase that. I said it left me feeling compromised. I was waiting to be turned in via knowledge report but nuthin happpened.

At the time I had just finished the grades and repairs and a Clear attest. That far back I had the idea "Who decides what we need and what we don't__and are we being smart about this?"
 

JackStraw

Silver Meritorious Patron
I can only think that Hubbard got the spelling wrong.
He wasn't trying to handle BTs but rather DTs!:eyeroll:

Jack
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I would hazard a guess that if someone- like LRH- believed in BTs and they believed in MUs, then they could belived that the latter could affect the former.
 
I never had a problem with my memory when I was on lines but once I'd left and started meditating , that was when my memory started fading. It's almost like the past is just disappearing and I can't decide whether that's good or bad. My mind used to be so sharp it hurt at times but now it's just fuzzy. Maybe it's just what happens as you get older. :unsure:
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
An as-is-ness (noun) is a creation by a thetan that has no persistance -- it get as-ised (verb) as soon as it's created. To do this is (theoretically) easier than making a persistant creation; the hard part is getting it (an is-ness) to continue to exist.

There are several "tricks" to getting an isness to persist, one of which is to put a continuing motion into it (an alter-is-ness).

I Told You I Was Trouble, there's no need for you to reply.

Helena

Hi Helena

Without meaning any disrespect, may I ask, are you serious?

If so, why can't we humans do that? Just asking. If you're kidding that's ok too.

john
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
I gave up on the place time form event, and distance etc. Doing Date locates I gave them what came up, right or wrong - or I just placed it with the significance - you know, "When was it?" "It was the time I lied to the reg about how much money I had." It made life a lot simpler.

Moving on to a thought that bothered me after I left the house after posting this morning. That is this - Hubbard makes a big deal about how we are composite beings, lugging around all manner of valences, pictures, entities etc. 3, 4, 5, 6,& 7 deal with getting rid of the entities. Did he ever stop to consider that maybe we are meant to be that way?

And here we are getting rid of parts of us we need to live in a world like this? Oy!

Sometimes I think I'd like to do some more solo 7, but now I think: What if I got rid of something I really needed and I find myself haunting Marty's house with a camera hat and a squirrel busters tee shirt? Scary thought!

Mimsey

Hi Mimsey,

Just my two cents. I don't think I ever needed to get rid of the things hubbard insisted were harmful baggage.

If I had a time track going back to my beginnings, why would I ever want to get rid of it?

If I had a mind, why would I want to bore holes in it?

If I had spiritual beings around me (not saying I did) WHY ON EARTH would I want to characterize them as the reason for my problems and get them to move on?

Hubbard had me kicking the cats when the roof had big holes in it. It was easier just to kick the cats than it was to try to grapple with my real problems.

Anyway, maybe as you suggest, we got rid of some things we should have kept. I feel that way but can't scientifically prove it.

So yes, I would stay away from 7 and the whole 'bad zombie bts' theory. Speaking of zombies, the squirrel busters do look like they've done way too much NOTs.

john
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hard to say. Could also reflect drugs, alcohol, or other conditions present among former scientologists. Many first involved themselves with the cult precisely because they knew they had such issues.


Mark A. Baker

Empirically not hard to say, that Scientology as a whole lifestyle and practice causes damage that includes loss of focus and memory impairment. - I can say it easily. It takes a large strain to believe in 7 impossible things before noon.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
An as-is-ness (noun) is a creation by a thetan that has no persistance -- it get as-ised (verb) as soon as it's created. To do this is (theoretically) easier than making a persistant creation; the hard part is getting it (an is-ness) to continue to exist.

There are several "tricks" to getting an isness to persist, one of which is to put a continuing motion into it (an alter-is-ness).

I Told You I Was Trouble, there's no need for you to reply.

Helena
Hi Helena

Without meaning any disrespect, may I ask, are you serious?

If so, why can't we humans do that? Just asking. If you're kidding that's ok too.

john
No, I'm not kidding. Why can't we do that today? Dare I say it -- these are OT abilities -- things we could all do way back when but not today. (Why these abilities have faded is another discussion.)

I'll let you in on a secret -- one ability is to create other beings, by splitting off some of your own substance, although this does not leave you diminished in any way. You can give some of these beings the job of being (or protecting MEST). In this way, a powerful being can create MEST.

Now here's the interesting part -- there is no other kind of MEST.

The universe is alive.

Helena
 
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