Evaluating Scientology: Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I agree that Hubbard was very arrogant and did a LOT of pigeonholing and that there was a great deal of hypocrisy, denial and personal blindness.

Ahhh...where was I?

Oh yes.

However (you knew there had to be one, right?)-- I do believe there is such a phenomenon as a degraded being. Just as there're also psychotic people, neurotic people, cheerful people, etc.

Here's the problem I have with this and other charts and scales- I find that Scientologists use those as filters. I notice that they often lob terms at people saying things they don't like. "Oh, he's an SP" or "He's PTS" or whatever it is. I've seen them call people 1.1 where it wasn't even a sensible remark within the confines of Hubbardism.

It becomes a self serving filter.

Now contrast that with Elizabeth Kubler Ross' scale. Does one see people using that to marginalize others? Well, I never saw anyone do so. To me, that's significant.

I could say that both people created scales and that what one does with them is the "rub", so to speak, but when I see that Hubbard's stuff seems more prone to abuse than other people's, well, you know, that gives me pause. Or, as Didi kitty would say, paws.
 
I agree that Hubbard was very arrogant and did a LOT of pigeonholing and that there was a great deal of hypocrisy, denial and personal blindness.

Ahhh...where was I?

Oh yes.

However (you knew there had to be one, right?)-- I do believe there is such a phenomenon as a degraded being. Just as there're also psychotic people, neurotic people, cheerful people, etc.

Here's the problem I have with this and other charts and scales- I find that Scientologists use those as filters. I notice that they often lob terms at people saying things they don't like. "Oh, he's an SP" or "He's PTS" or whatever it is. I've seen them call people 1.1 where it wasn't even a sensible remark within the confines of Hubbardism.

It becomes a self serving filter.

Now contrast that with Elizabeth Kubler Ross' scale. Does one see people using that to marginalize others? Well, I never saw anyone do so. To me, that's significant.

I could say that both people created scales and that what one does with them is the "rub", so to speak, but when I see that Hubbard's stuff seems more prone to abuse than other people's, well, you know, that gives me pause. Or, as Didi kitty would say, paws.

some use scales. some are covered with scales
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree that Hubbard was very arrogant and did a LOT of pigeonholing and that there was a great deal of hypocrisy, denial and personal blindness.

Ahhh...where was I?

Oh yes.

However (you knew there had to be one, right?)-- I do believe there is such a phenomenon as a degraded being. Just as there're also psychotic people, neurotic people, cheerful people, etc.

Here's the problem I have with this and other charts and scales- I find that Scientologists use those as filters. I notice that they often lob terms at people saying things they don't like. "Oh, he's an SP" or "He's PTS" or whatever it is. I've seen them call people 1.1 where it wasn't even a sensible remark within the confines of Hubbardism.

It becomes a self serving filter.

Now contrast that with Elizabeth Kubler Ross' scale. Does one see people using that to marginalize others? Well, I never saw anyone do so. To me, that's significant.

I could say that both people created scales and that what one does with them is the "rub", so to speak, but when I see that Hubbard's stuff seems more prone to abuse than other people's, well, you know, that gives me pause. Or, as Didi kitty would say, paws.

Similar to my thoughts on it, but I could not have said it better, or more diplomatically - than this. Excellent. :thumbsup:
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the "tone scale' is too rigid and injected with opinions to be trustworthy.....unless one needs a tool to create a cultic mindset.

I will agree with elron. People do have emotions and attitudes But really this is just more Ronfoolery, disguised as [STRIKE]science[/STRIKE] , [STRIKE]religion[/STRIKE], orchestrated mixing of common knowledge with concocted fiction by a very 1.1 man.:biggrin:

I think Ron was right, it should be disposed of and without sorrow. :coolwink:
 
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I notice that they often lob terms at people saying things they don't like. "Oh, he's an SP" or "He's PTS" or whatever it is.
and which is funny when they really don't have a clue what being suppressive really means. A scio I know recently told me Obama was an sp and was destroying the economy. I told him he was being ridiculous, no one person could wreck the economy by himself. He looked at me like I was crazy. My wife later told me I was a fool - he was obviously a republican. But still, he didn't have a clue what a "suppressive" is, though having been a scio for many, many years.

Mimsey
 

Alle G

Patron with Honors
People evaluate and classify my emotions, character traits etc. all the time, so what? I don’t have to agree or behave according to their labels.

In scientology a person is very thoroughly defined by their labels and has to modify their emotions and behavior according to them. Examples of labels are a position on the tone scale or ethics scale. Some legitimate emotions are labelled ‘low’ and a person should suppress or deny them.

Simply put Hubbard tells his followers what to feel, think and do, that is he controls them. People become ‘walking labels’, with their behavior or even future prescribed by Hubbard (for example to be disposed of). He must feel so powerful to decide other people’s fate.

Sociopaths see people as objects to be used or manipulated, I think Hubbard wanted the same on a large scale, total control and domination.

Also, what about the lower part of the scale? Are there any discussions why ‘Regret’ is below ‘Death’ and above ‘Approval from bodies’ for example?
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
Scientology / Hubbard eval + inval is bullshit. Tone scale is bullshit. Love and happiness are not on Hubbard's BS scale, so anyone who agrees with Hubbard on this, go take a flying fuck.

People move through a variety of emotions on a daily / hourly basis, and this can happen quite rapidly. Pegging people as 1.1 is the same fucking bullshit as Scilons pegging wogs as SPs.

FZ apologists, go fuck yourself. Ditto, Rinder and Marty, go fuck yourself.

I deliberately haven't been on ESMB / WWP etc for a while. Scientology sucked up 10 years of my life. Fighting against Scientology since 1995 has sucked up more years of my life, and I don't want to give this fucking CULT more years of my life.

Emma, if I'm being too much of an asshole here, go ahead, delete this post, I won't mind.

Cheers,
OTBT
 
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