Ever take ADVICE from a Scientologist? How'd that work out for ya?

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
In my experience in and out of Scientology, I have found Scientologists to be the pushiest, most annoying, know-best ADVICE-GIVERS of any people on earth. They don't even wait for you to ask for advice, they begin "handling" you the moment you walk in the room. That applies to in the org or anywhere else. Sound like a generality? Good.

But, what is the REALITY of what happens if you follow that advice, compared to the mythology?

Example? Sure, thousands of them. Let's take a classic. Money.

Let's say a person gets in Scn to handle their ruin, money. They ain't got any and worse than that, they are near bankrupt, unable to pay their bills. So, they are sent to the Registrar to help them handle that ruin. What ADVICE does the reg give them? To borrow money (because the gains they will get are guaranteed to boost their cause level, their stats and their income).

What happens if that advice is followed? Disaster. I can think of a vast number of people I personally have met who suffered that financial disaster at the mercy of Scientology's advice.

Just recently I spoke to a highly successful attorney (used to be) who asked to borrow money to buy an automobile because their luxury vehicles were repossessed not to mention the multimillion dollar house a year in default, now going thru foreclosure. But while all this was going on, this individual assured me of their unbelievable "havingness" they had attained from doing the L's. it never dawned on them that if their "havingness" was so spectacular, they would have paid me back the substantial sums they borrowed last year and were unable to repay. So, no, I didn't loan them any more.

MYTH vs FACT. The supposed prosperity they should have attained (myth) actually was the worst financial crash in their entire professional career (fact). But they don't make the connection. The wins are apparently so great that they are impervious to the realities of being a human being.

Jeez, the examples of this kind of madness are just flooding in, now that I am thinking about trusting people following the advice of Scientology and Scientologists. This is the stuff that betrayals are made of.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>
Just recently I spoke to a highly successful attorney (used to be) who asked to borrow money to buy an automobile because their luxury vehicles were repossessed not to mention the multimillion dollar house a year in default, now going thru foreclosure. But while all this was going on, this individual assured me of their unbelievable "havingness" they had attained from doing the L's. it never dawned on them that if their "havingness" was so spectacular, they would have paid me back the substantial sums they borrowed last year and were unable to repay. So, no, I didn't loan them any more.

<snip>

I can imagine how the story of these people continues: Once they're so broke that they have nothing left and nowhere to go, they'll come up with the ingenious idea to write a book. Nothing big, just a little fantasy novel: "The Struggle of the Theta Ticks". This book isn't really that successful, but it generates enough income so that the people can survive.

The people realize that "enough to survive" isn't really enough, and that they could do better. So the decide to write another book. This time, since the fantasy market is shrinking, they decide to go for the science genre.

This new book, which it a biology/psychology book titled "Theta Ticks and their Survival Instincts", is way more successful than the previous one. It brings in heaps of money, which these honest and hard working people of course invest in their way up the bridge, so they once again end up broke and... well it gets a little repetitive here, but if you want to know how the story continues, just visit the Theta bookstore near you and get the latest issue.

I've heard there's even a special "Christmas" edition, which would make a wonderful present for all your friends and relatives. So hurry up, there aren't that many left in stock.
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
In my experience in and out of Scientology, I have found Scientologists to be the pushiest, most annoying, know-best ADVICE-GIVERS of any people on earth. They don't even wait for you to ask for advice, they begin "handling" you the moment you walk in the room. That applies to in the org or anywhere else. Sound like a generality? Good.

Could not have said it better. The scary thing is to think that at one stage I imagine I was like that :duh:
Good thread as it got me looking back to actually see if any advice from a scientologist actually helped me and when I say helped me I mean did it actually change a situation in my life for the better. :hmm: and the answer is NO. What it did do is force THEIR reality on me. Thinking, yea he is higher on the bridge I should listen to him.
What total :trash:
Scientologist's are the most critical people I know, always right, talking about other people and feeling superior as they are able to "spot them". Think about it, how many times have you sat down with some scios for business or socia,l especially business that,s the worst and been critical of others; but it's okay as the criticism is in scio language so there for it must be constructive :duh: "he's out ethics, pts, not applying the tech, has mu's the list goes on forever.
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
There was one time I did take advice from a Scientologist that actually worked. I was on staff and was broke. He worked with out with me that it would be survival for me across the dynamics to leave staff to go and get a good job to make money which was exactly what I did and I have never looked back. That was about the only time that happened. On the whole whenever I connected up with the Church my life became worse and poorer. Whenever I went away my life actually flourished and expanded. Advice from the church is best handled the same way I handle the spam mail I get - deleted!!!!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
And the Ls are mondo expensive, too. Money that could have been put to use pulling himself out debt.

Remarkable, ain't it?

But, the lower his ship sinks in the water, the more certain he is that Scientology is the lifeboat that will save him and his family.

If he ever bothered to look, he might notice that the crew of the rescue vessel that is so industriously helping him are really Scn pirates looting his remaining assets.
 

pollywannacracker

Patron Meritorious
There was one time I did take advice from a Scientologist that actually worked. I was on staff and was broke. He worked with out with me that it would be survival for me across the dynamics to leave staff to go and get a good job to make money which was exactly what I did and I have never looked back. That was about the only time that happened. On the whole whenever I connected up with the Church my life became worse and poorer. Whenever I went away my life actually flourished and expanded. Advice from the church is best handled the same way I handle the spam mail I get - deleted!!!!

Bet he didn't last long on staff. :p

-PWC
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
Bet he didn't last long on staff. :p

-PWC

Actually he wasn't a staff member but an individual who wanted to help. The guy was a very decent individual.

When I announce my decision to leave staff to the E/O guys they thought I was completely degraded for wanting to make more money. I was told what a wrong purpose this was and that it had no merits vs the purpose of being on staff. In fact the ranting E/O went on a complete lecture with full facial expressions ranging between 1.1 to 2.0 for 10 minutes. Thinking back now if it wasn't so dire for me to get off staff I probably would have laughed but I just took whatever he had to say, did his conditions and when that was done I still left. I became a lost cause to him and others when it became apparent that I wasn't staying the org lost interest in me and left I did. Never did complete the routing off staff RF and nothing bad happen to me.
 

TalleyWhacker

Patron with Honors
The Ls are Flag's most lucrative bottle of snake oil.
L-10 especially will suck you dry and then some.
As far as the attorney goes...well, Hell, he paid retail for something that was not based upon science and took absolute total faith to believe in.

How else would he presently feel? :duh:

For a lot less money--a whole lot less--he could have had the extra spicey Special #3 at Manella's Mexican Food restuarant.
At least the next morning while sitting on the potty, he'd have been reminded what his arsehole was for!!
Case Gain!!!
 

sp declared

Patron with Honors
Just recently I spoke to a highly successful attorney (used to be) who asked to borrow money to buy an automobile because their luxury vehicles were repossessed not to mention the multimillion dollar house a year in default, now going thru foreclosure. But while all this was going on, this individual assured me of their unbelievable "havingness" they had attained from doing the L's. it never dawned on them that if their "havingness" was so spectacular, they would have paid me back the substantial sums they borrowed last year and were unable to repay. So, no, I didn't loan them any more.

This friend of yours not only is broke, he is also dumb because he has been listening to the regges and not to his many wealthy friends. Where money is concerned you should listen to somebody who has got plenty of them and not to somebody who is penniless.

Anyway the crux of the matter is that scientologist's advice shouldn't be followed because scientologists' goal is to help the Org and the C. of S. primarily and the individual in front of them comes second.

The only scientologists who do care about you are the "green public" and the disaffected ones. And sometimes not even them.

Scientology culture is the culture of greed and egotism at the expense of what really matters in life: friends and sincere help. Additionally many regges do force people onto violating the same exact policies LRH wrote about financial planning.

It is a mess where, really, the only sane people in scn's world is the disaffected scientologist.

Sp Declared
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill


Remarkable, ain't it?

But, the lower his ship sinks in the water, the more certain he is that Scientology is the lifeboat that will save him and his family.

If he ever bothered to look, he might notice that the crew of the rescue vessel that is so industriously helping him are really Scn pirates looting his remaining assets.

I remember being told by reges that if I indebted myself, that I would NOT go bankrupt (I always hated that. Legal/collections is my career field and it sure wasn't theirs!) and that my abilities would be so enhanced that I'd make the money back.

You know what- my husband used to say this to them: "I see. So will you guarantee this?" Funnily enough, they never did.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
I remember being told by reges that if I indebted myself, that I would NOT go bankrupt (I always hated that. Legal/collections is my career field and it sure wasn't theirs!) and that my abilities would be so enhanced that I'd make the money back.

You know what- my husband used to say this to them: "I see. So will you guarantee this?" Funnily enough, they never did.

This is what I don't understand. Where I come from, this would be the standard question, and if that question didn't get a convincing answer immediately, a hearty "then f*ck off" would be the standard reaction, even among good friends. So what is it, that disables the capability to think rationally in experienced businessmen?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
This is what I don't understand. Where I come from, this would be the standard question, and if that question didn't get a convincing answer immediately, a hearty "then f*ck off" would be the standard reaction, even among good friends. So what is it, that disables the capability to think rationally in experienced businessmen?

Now that is a truly great question!

A Human Being is.....human; a wonderfully delicate balance of life, thought & instincts layered upon a genetic blueprint whose historical origins can only be speculated upon. However, certain things can be observed which give great clues towards answering your astute question.

A human, like any living organism, has voluntary and involuntary responses. There is a threshold beyond which human thought, will or determination is easily and instantly subjugated by those involuntary responses. Try using willpower to hold your breath for 10 minutes and see what happens.

Without trying to define the values and mapping of the involuntary impulses, it can also be observed that humans can be influenced, directed, re-directed or even "compelled" to do or not do things by manipulating these involuntary responses.

Humans can be tricked rather easily using this mechanism. Companies that sell frequently harmful & addictive products learned how to game humans for mega-profit in this way. Take a stroll thru Las Vegas for a quick study of quirky tricks you can get a human to do if you type in the right codes. Why else would a person chain smoke, get drunk and gamble (throw) their money away in a euphoric frenzy of fun?

Religion has likewise discovered and mastered certain knee-jerk responses that fill the pews and donation plates.

Scientology has learned from many of these systems of human control and domination. It plays with some of man's most profoundly embedded instincts to live forever or to discover the divine thread that its own existence is woven from...

This represents an endlessly fascinating approach to understanding how we and all our wonderfully lovely friends arrived here at ESMB. It was not from our imperfection, but rather from being perfectly human-- which is something which itself was not a matter of choice despite the silly stories told by a very human guru named Hubbard.
 
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Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
This is what I don't understand. Where I come from, this would be the standard question, and if that question didn't get a convincing answer immediately, a hearty "then f*ck off" would be the standard reaction, even among good friends. So what is it, that disables the capability to think rationally in experienced businessmen?

It's the promise of the Bridge. The carrot on the stick. Everybody here unless you never done a service in Scio Land has fallen for this. Some harder than others. The funny thing is though that the Church never promises you an exact ability other than a conceptual feeling within yourself that is completely subjective. You are as OT as you can conceive this ONLY in your mind. But there is something there and people want it. What is sad is that auditing is way over priced and when you borrow money whether it is a good interest rate or not you end up paying for that many times over provided you don't declare bankruptcy.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Right. One is never ever ever supposed to question them. And deep down inside, cult personnel KNOW that the promises aren't going to come to fruition-so they won't guarantee anything. They're not allowed to.
 

well_that_sucked

Patron with Honors


Now that is a truly great question!

A Human Being is.....human; a wonderfully delicate balance of life, thought & instincts layered upon a genetic blueprint whose historical origins can only be speculated upon. However, certain things can be observed which give great clues towards answering your astute question.

A human, like any living organism, has voluntary and involuntary responses. There is a threshold beyond which human thought, will or determination is easily and instantly subjugated by those involuntary responses. Try using willpower to hold your breath for 10 minutes and see what happens.

Without trying to define the values and mapping of the involuntary impulses, it can also be observed that humans can be influenced, directed, re-directed or even "compelled" to do or not do things by manipulating these involuntary responses.

Humans can be tricked rather easily using this mechanism. Companies that sell frequently harmful & addictive products learned how to game humans for mega-profit in this way. Take a stroll thru Las Vegas for a quick study of quirky tricks you can get a human to do if you type in the right codes. Why else would a person chain smoke, get drunk and gamble (throw) their money away in a euphoric frenzy of fun?

Religion has likewise discovered and mastered certain knee-jerk responses that fill the pews and donation plates.

Scientology has learned from many of these systems of human control and domination. It plays with some of man's most profoundly embedded instincts to live forever or to discover the divine thread that its own existence is woven from...

This represents an endlessly fascinating approach to understanding how we and all our wonderfully lovely friends arrived here at ESMB. It was not from our imperfection, but rather from being perfectly human-- which is something which itself was not a matter of choice despite the silly stories told by a very human guru named Hubbard.

bump
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?


Now that is a truly great question!

A Human Being is.....human; a wonderfully delicate balance of life, thought & instincts layered upon a genetic blueprint whose historical origins can only be speculated upon. However, certain things can be observed which give great clues towards answering your astute question.

A human, like any living organism, has voluntary and involuntary responses. There is a threshold beyond which human thought, will or determination is easily and instantly subjugated by those involuntary responses. Try using willpower to hold your breath for 10 minutes and see what happens.

Without trying to define the values and mapping of the involuntary impulses, it can also be observed that humans can be influenced, directed, re-directed or even "compelled" to do or not do things by manipulating these involuntary responses.

Humans can be tricked rather easily using this mechanism. Companies that sell frequently harmful & addictive products learned how to game humans for mega-profit in this way. Take a stroll thru Las Vegas for a quick study of quirky tricks you can get a human to do if you type in the right codes. Why else would a person chain smoke, get drunk and gamble (throw) their money away in a euphoric frenzy of fun?

Religion has likewise discovered and mastered certain knee-jerk responses that fill the pews and donation plates.

Scientology has learned from many of these systems of human control and domination. It plays with some of man's most profoundly embedded instincts to live forever or to discover the divine thread that its own existence is woven from...

This represents an endlessly fascinating approach to understanding how we and all our wonderfully lovely friends arrived here at ESMB. It was not from our imperfection, but rather from being perfectly human-- which is something which itself was not a matter of choice despite the silly stories told by a very human guru named Hubbard.

QFT. Thanks, that's a good explanation. Given the fact that I've been scammed a couple of times myself, it's an unpleasant thought to think it could happen again, but it definitely could.I hope my past experiences raised my awareness level, and that I won't fall for another scam that easily, but it surely could happen. That I usually try to step back and watch the whole, before I make any big decisions, might help. It did in the past.

It's the promise of the Bridge. The carrot on the stick. Everybody here unless you never done a service in Scio Land has fallen for this. Some harder than others. The funny thing is though that the Church never promises you an exact ability other than a conceptual feeling within yourself that is completely subjective. You are as OT as you can conceive this ONLY in your mind. But there is something there and people want it. What is sad is that auditing is way over priced and when you borrow money whether it is a good interest rate or not you end up paying for that many times over provided you don't declare bankruptcy.

It's just painful to watch when people you love fall for clearly empty promises, in spite of your warnings. Someone very dear to me once fell for a hollow business concept, although I strongly advised against it. There were just too many holes in that concept. Today, more than 10 years later, she's still working to pay back the debts. That is sad.

Right. One is never ever ever supposed to question them. And deep down inside, cult personnel KNOW that the promises aren't going to come to fruition-so they won't guarantee anything. They're not allowed to.

That's why I shy away from promises where no guarantees are given. And even if there are guarantees, I at least try to check whether these guarantees are valid or not. Of course one can never be 100% sure, but a good dose of skepticism does help a lot.
 
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