Ex DM

Gus

Patron with Honors
Just for the record, Rocky Stump was declared SP around the mid 1970s.

Yeah, I met him around '73 or '74 or so. He was at, lemmeesee, maybe it was old ASHO? It was in Los Angeles, not far from the Tommy's Burgers on Beverly and Rampart streets. Cripes, that was a long time ago and I haven't thought about that for ages. Temple Street?

And thank you very much for the other info you posted, particularly the quotes from Martin Samuels. He just "disappeared," at least from my point of view at the time. He was the Davis mission holder - it was a big mission, and the guy was just suddenly "gone."


...As for the romantic notion that Scientology was "fun" in the 1970s, I can only suggest consulting the historical record - which includes the experiences of other people...

You are completely correct about that. I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't a lot of really bad crap going on then, or that a lot of people didn't get hurt badly. There certainly was, and they certainly did.

I was onlines at a mission at that time. The only time I was at an org, at least then, was to attest to Student Hat (for some reason that had to be done at an org), and for the big events. They didn't have the big Management dog and pony shows and satellite feeds the way they do now, so each org kinda put together its own party. The orgs usually had a lot of good musicians on lines or on staff, so there was often a good concert, and we didn't have to run the "Gauntlet of Regges" to go home after :)


At the mission, it actually was fun. There wasn't much in the way of hard-assness (did I just make up a "-ness" word, in the Scn style?) coming down from "Int." There was no birthday game stat push. The public and staff at the mission socialized together a lot, and it was actually a good time. At least there, anyway. I was never on the ships or on staff, so I never experienced that hell.

One of the things that shocked me was all the stuff that I read about so much later, that was going on at the same time. So it definitely wasn't fun for others.

Thanks again for your post

-Gus
 
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Gus

Patron with Honors
Welcome Gus. I understand your situation, and please take care of yourself and your family.I keep hearing this from oldtimers like yourself, and find it very interesting. (I first got involved in the 1980s shortly before Hubbard's death, so I never experienced Scientology as "fun.") Torry speaks the same way. I've seen a tendency among some oldtimers, and particularly oldtimers who recall when Scientology was "fun," to blame everything on DM. But, to be honest, didn't the abuse start before the Old Man passed away? And, more importantly, weren't the scriptural foundations for the abuse (e.g., Fair Game, Disconnection, Freeloader Debt, "Find the Ruin," KSW making Scientology non-falsifaible, etc.) in fact written by Ron? This really struck home for me...


Yes, you are correct. I don't blame everything on DM, but I think it was his insanity that started me looking at things more critically. And that he could have fixed the problems that existed, and he didn't - he made them worse.

I think it says something that Catholic Charities will care for people who weren't Christians and haven't contributed bupkis to the Cathloic Church. Whereas, in contrast, one can have contributed thousands and thousands of dollars to the Church of Scientology but, when you can't contribute anymore, you are offloaded and/or ignored.

That is a serious problem.

Then again, unlike Scientology (or at least unlike Scientology when it isn't asking people to contribute to the ISA, Ideal Orgs and Book Campaigns), Christianity and Buddhism do not have a doctrine of "exchange."

Or maybe their exchange is a bit more Karmic :)

And cripes, all the IAS etc. you mentioned... "The Bridge" is expensive enough, but you can't even have peace when you've paid for your next thing - you gotta put out more for all that other crap. I mean, there was regging in the 70s, and I'm sure people got cleaned out, but it's become worse and worse over the years. I finally realized the water that was getting warmer and warmer was boiling now, and I jumped the hell out.

IMO, There's this backoff now on just going over to the org to hang out and meet a few friends because you can't be around there for very long before you're dragged off to the hot seat. The orgs/missions used to be kind of social centers for the public, and that was very good for everyone, I think. I don't know if you can imagine just stopping by a mission or org to say hi to your friends (who might be staff or public). I can't anymore.

DM could have ended the abuse of staff and especially Sea Org members, and children, stopped with the cleaning out of the public's bank accounts -- he could have made Scientology an ethical organization (I'm almost laughing writing that...) but he made it even worse. More abuse, more covert operations, more money... sigh.

I feel terrible for the people who are in, especially in the SO. I was never on staff or in the SO - the worst I dealt with was the endless regging and the, um, I can't find the word -- heaviness? Desperation to "make the stat?" It took me longer to realize what was going on behind the public façade.

Anyway, thank you for your post, and best wishes on your endeavours!

Gus
 
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Gus

Patron with Honors
All that you say I've also seen and experienced from the early '70's,
including Rocky Stump. It seems that SP's ignore Kha Khan's (of course).

Gus, did you read the story about when LRH kicked-the-bucket and
supposedly re-wrote his will while unconscious on drugs and after a
stroke (second) one week earlier ?

I couldn't imagine what a Kha Khan would have had to have done to get declared. I guess they made up some extra high crimes so they could "use 'em all up." Sick.

Yes, I did read about the Old Man's last-day change-of-will. Maybe if his stroke affected his left side, he could have scrawled a signature on something stuck in front of him, but that's about it. The whole thing stunk badly.

Interestingly, Isaac Hayes quit South Park _after_ his stroke. IMHO, he didn't quit, his "handlers" quit for him. Kind of like the OM's "handlers" re-wrote his will when he was incapacited. Isaac was in no condition to quit anything, and definitely in no condition to issue a statement that read like Scientology's usual PR bullshit. According to people who knew him, anyway. Putting words in the mouth of a man who is incapacited like that is disgusting. Poor guy, I really liked him.


Thanks for the links - I've read quite a bit, and I appreciate the info.

Gus
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome Gus

I'm new on the message board as well and I enjoy the freedom to communicate with individuals who understand.

I been around Scientology since the early 1980's and it's been hard work all the way... now I'm enjoying my new found freedom :happydance:

I look forward to reading your posts.
 

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
Welcome!

Welcome Gus!
Every time someone speaks out, another nail is driven into the coffin of $cientology.
Speak, talk, pontificate, rant, babble, bawl, squawk, rattle and squeak but TELL the world!
 

Gus

Patron with Honors
Welcome Gus

I'm new on the message board as well and I enjoy the freedom to communicate with individuals who understand.

I been around Scientology since the early 1980's and it's been hard work all the way... now I'm enjoying my new found freedom :happydance:

I look forward to reading your posts.

Hi, Hap,

Yeah, it's nice, isn't it?

I recall the early 80s well - that's when the "10% increase per month" business started, right? It has been a hard road since then. And that's just for the public. That all pales compared to Int Hell.

It is good to get this off my chest.

Gus
 

Gus

Patron with Honors
Welcome Gus!
Every time someone speaks out, another nail is driven into the coffin of $cientology.
Speak, talk, pontificate, rant, babble, bawl, squawk, rattle and squeak but TELL the world!

You know, out of everyone I know, everyone has heard of Scientology. I'd guess, and this is a pretty good guess, that every one of them, except those who are still in, has a negative impression of it.

It's interesting to wonder what the implosion will look like. Will DM get overthrown, and new people take over? Will the organization just contract to a few die-hard DM-lovers and cease to be relevant? Or will it collapse completely?

I give it five years, and we'll know.

Gus
 

Gus

Patron with Honors
BTW, I have to thank you all for reading my musings and rants. You've all been there and done that, and I appreciate your patience and kind thoughts/words.

Regards,

Gus
 

Gus

Patron with Honors
...Sec Checks were being used to collect blackmail-able information as early as 1961...

Hi, Veda, I just read your post again, and again I'm impressed with the info. So... Again... thanks :)

BTW, re the quote above, thank whoever upstairs, knock on wood, etc., I have my PC folders. Don't ask how I pulled that off, but let's say I've been around a while and know how to work things. I think I'll burn them next time I go camping. More fun than the shredder. And no, I haven't opened them. Why bother?


Gus
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re your PC folders:

Wow! On two fronts: that you've got them; and that you've not read them!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
And no, I haven't opened them. Why bother?

Leverage, if you need any. You might find some highly slanderous material in there, directed against you in the guise of "case information" or "ethics reports" or somesuch.

Paul
 

Gus

Patron with Honors
Leverage, if you need any. You might find some highly slanderous material in there, directed against you in the guise of "case information" or "ethics reports" or somesuch.

Paul

Good point. I think I will give them a scan before destroying them. Thanks.

-Gus
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
At this point in time, I think It doesn't matter who all the who's are. I believe. The Church is going down. :yes:
 

bluewiggirl

Patron Meritorious
Hey Gus, nice to see more people coming out!

In case you can't tell from the avatar, I'm one of those pesky Marcabian/German Govt./Psych/CIA/Commie/Nazi/KKK SP's yelling at your buildings since last year. If and when you decide you want to make your exit public, I'm in touch with anons in most major cities around the world and if you happen to be near one of the nicer groups I could get you in touch with them for a little local support during that difficult time of readjustment.

And we all understand the value of keeping your identity hidden, too :D
 

ChronicEnturbulator

Patron with Honors
Hello Gus,
I'm another one of those pesky Marcabian/German Govt./Psych/CIA/Commie/Nazi/KKK SPs. We're a bit uncivilized, but we do mean well (except for that accelerating "this planet's downward spiral" thing).
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
I couldn't imagine what a Kha Khan would have had to have done to get declared. I guess they made up some extra high crimes so they could "use 'em all up." Sick.

Yes, I did read about the Old Man's last-day change-of-will. Maybe if his stroke affected his left side, he could have scrawled a signature on something stuck in front of him, but that's about it. The whole thing stunk badly.

Interestingly, Isaac Hayes quit South Park _after_ his stroke. IMHO, he didn't quit, his "handlers" quit for him. Kind of like the OM's "handlers" re-wrote his will when he was incapacited. Isaac was in no condition to quit anything, and definitely in no condition to issue a statement that read like Scientology's usual PR bullshit. According to people who knew him, anyway. Putting words in the mouth of a man who is incapacited like that is disgusting. Poor guy, I really liked him.


Thanks for the links - I've read quite a bit, and I appreciate the info.
Gus

Hi Gus,
You're welcome on the links. I've read so much in 3 years and it isn't all

organized, but I recall most of the good stuff.

Also I saw much with my own eyes like earliest Clearwater, inner sanctum

meetings in Portland, weird feelings from Snow White pawns or players at

FCDC, and others.

PM me if you want or not, as all should be available to all except GO/OSA.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Welcome, Gus! Thank you for sharing your story.

Someone with me wants to say HI!

__________________________________________


Welcome, Gus!

I'm one of those early '70s people who met Rocky, too. (He and Martin Samuels were two of the kha-khans I knew who were declared - bizarre as it is, that was really kind of common.)

The way you're feeling is how I felt very soon before I did my Doubt formula and routed off staff. In your heart, you already have a foot out the door, and that's what really matters. That self-determinism we were told we'd get when we went Clear? You're starting to get it now.

Like you, I haven't (yet) openly done things which would get me declared; others have already done the most important things, and done them at least as well as I could have. But I do a lot behind the scenes, and have been known to don a Guy Fawkes mask from time to time. You don't need to be share your identity if you don't want to! You can do anything you want to, or nothing at all, as you see fit. You're free now, enjoy it! And if you're going to be attending protests, masked or not, see you there!
 

moarxenu

Patron with Honors
Catholic Anon thanks you, Gus

Thanks Gus for speaking out. Particularly your words on Catholic Charities, it made me feel proud to be Catholic and Anonymous both.

We have made headway with the churches. Cardinal Oullet spoke out in February of this year and there is much work going on behind the scenes.

Please keep speaking out, writing, and make vids. The more the world hears your story the faster the abusive regime gets dismantled.
 

Gus

Patron with Honors
Hey Gus, nice to see more people coming out!

In case you can't tell from the avatar, I'm one of those pesky Marcabian/German Govt./Psych/CIA/Commie/Nazi/KKK SP's yelling at your buildings since last year. If and when you decide you want to make your exit public, I'm in touch with anons in most major cities around the world and if you happen to be near one of the nicer groups I could get you in touch with them for a little local support during that difficult time of readjustment.

And we all understand the value of keeping your identity hidden, too :D

Hi, BWG - I've probably seen the Blue Wig on one protest or another (I think I've encountered two or three protests randomly in the course of driving around in the last year). Thanks for the kind words of support :)

-Gus
 
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