Ex-Scientology Forum

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Is anyone aware of an Ex-$cientology Forum? Seriously. I haven't run across one. I ask because I had sort of an epiphany today while reading over the latest thread from Emma, "Congratulations OSA (for now)" (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=21644), where I realized that, given the stated purpose of ESMB (see excerpt below), what else could be expected of such a board other than exactly the tumultuous teacup tempest recently experienced and apparently still going on? A tempest that is only one of very many since its inception if one were to thoroughly examine the many topics and postings. How could it not be but "no, you!" factional and divisive amongst a handful of cliquish "veterans" and backline insiders-- i.e. "opinion leaders" --and so forth? I mean, really. I had my fill of internal political maneuvering :grouch:, squabbling :grouch:, and firefights :grouch: of that sort as a cof$ staff and s.o. member in the mid-to-late 70's.

What is the purpose of the board?

The board is for Ex Scientologists of all "denominations" to get together
and talk things over.

Some leave the church because they are forced out by some insane ethics order yet remain true believers; some left of their own accord because it stopped making sense; some find the tech truly workable but management corrupt; some find the earlier tech workable but call the Golden Age of Tech the "work of squirrels"; some don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and some feel that there is no baby at all.

Some practice Scientology alternatives, some practice Freezone Scientology, some use bits and pieces in their daily lives and some want nothing more to do with it.

It is likely that most people are happy where they sit in regards to Scientology. They have their minds made up about it and no amount of discussion will change that. This board is not meant to be a vehicle to plead your case, reconvert the fallen or preach your brand. It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.

Who is considered an "Ex Scientologist"?

Anyone who has broken free of the restraints of the Official Church of Scientology and is "allowed" to read & post to the internet.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=4&postcount=1
So, by the above, ESMB is for Ex-Scientologists ... well, duh. But that apparently only means Ex-Scientologists of the Ex-CHURCH of Scientology variety. Gee whiz, I knew something has long bugged me about it but it wasn't until all the yammering threads of the past week or two plus this latest one (as above) that I finally twigged on it. It isn't ESMB, Ex-Scientology Message Board. A bit of a misnomer actually. ESMB should be by its stated purpose and definition Ex-[CofS]Scientologist Message Board. Funny how it's taken over two years for me to finally get it. :duh:

So. Just curious. Anyone know of an actual Ex-$cientology Forum for actual Ex-$cientologists in the generally accepted use of those terms when preceded by an "Ex-"? As in ex-addict, ex-alcoholic, ex-christianity/ex-christian, ex-wife .... Where the membership would include anyone completely done with the label, or those struggling to be completely done with the label but desiring a connection with others of like mind to deal with current or past issues in completely overcoming the thought patterns, indoc, etc etc. Anyone who still considered themselves positively identified with a label such as Scientologist, Independent Scientologist, Free Zoner, or any other "denomination" or permutation of the i.d. or label other than those were actively trying to "kick the habit" would not be welcome to post on such a forum ... if there were legal issues about this, that would have to be addressed, but it would be similar to ... at least I would think ... not finding drug pushers or anyone pushing the benefits of alcoholic drinking on a recovering addicts board.

I guess there's more that could be added but I'm tarred (tired) now. And, besides, there may not be much interest in such an idea from others here, not to mention that I don't appear overly popular hereabouts :) since out of a few hundred posts I've made since 2008 (with a 2 years hiatus from late 2008 to late 2010) there's been, shall we say, scant interest :no: (at least in terms of replies) to what I post.

Oh yeah, lately I found myself contributing to the "snide side" more often, which I rarely did or had any interest in during my first stint visiting here. So all the negativism I'd found myself caught up in recently probably helped realize my widdle epiphany today.

Oh, one other thing. I don't know who started the cockeyed notion of a "thread host" or "hosting a thread" but gimmeabreak. :duh: I've been around plenty of forums in my time and ... to be generous ... it's a silly concept. So, no, I won't be "hosting" this topic. It'll just die a natural death, as appropriate, if there's no real interest in the idea. Fuck stats. Fuck thread hosts. And, yeah, fuck osa, too.
 
So, by the above, ESMB is for Ex-Scientologists ... well, duh. But that apparently only means Ex-Scientologists of the Ex-CHURCH of Scientology variety.

Feel free to start one. Personally I don't see much value in such a thing. As with church boards, its only real function would be to provide a place for some people to be "right" and allow them free rein to point out the "wrongness" of others.

One of the greatest "crimes" of the Co$ has been as a result of its efforts to "cut comm" among scientologists & former members of the church. With ESMB, the intention has been to promote open exchanges among all who have left their prior affiliation with the church and any who wish to communicate with them. It doesn't always work out smoothly, but as a goal I see it as a worthy & valuable one. It is certainly a goal worthy pursuit & support.


Mark A. Baker
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Even on the Ex-Wife Message Board certain idiots insist on talking about how great the marriage was! Don't get me started!!! :D
 

Ulf K. Maier

Patron Meritorious
Aye

Is anyone aware of an Ex-$cientology Forum? Seriously. I haven't run across one. I ask because I had sort of an epiphany today while reading over the latest thread from Emma, "Congratulations OSA (for now)" (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=21644), where I realized that, given the stated purpose of ESMB (see excerpt below), what else could be expected of such a board other than exactly the tumultuous teacup tempest recently experienced and apparently still going on? A tempest that is only one of very many since its inception if one were to thoroughly examine the many topics and postings. How could it not be but "no, you!" factional and divisive amongst a handful of cliquish "veterans" and backline insiders-- i.e. "opinion leaders" --and so forth? I mean, really. I had my fill of internal political maneuvering :grouch:, squabbling :grouch:, and firefights :grouch: of that sort as a cof$ staff and s.o. member in the mid-to-late 70's.

So, by the above, ESMB is for Ex-Scientologists ... well, duh. But that apparently only means Ex-Scientologists of the Ex-CHURCH of Scientology variety. Gee whiz, I knew something has long bugged me about it but it wasn't until all the yammering threads of the past week or two plus this latest one (as above) that I finally twigged on it. It isn't ESMB, Ex-Scientology Message Board. A bit of a misnomer actually. ESMB should be by its stated purpose and definition Ex-[CofS]Scientologist Message Board. Funny how it's taken over two years for me to finally get it. :duh:

So. Just curious. Anyone know of an actual Ex-$cientology Forum for actual Ex-$cientologists in the generally accepted use of those terms when preceded by an "Ex-"? As in ex-addict, ex-alcoholic, ex-christianity/ex-christian, ex-wife .... Where the membership would include anyone completely done with the label, or those struggling to be completely done with the label but desiring a connection with others of like mind to deal with current or past issues in completely overcoming the thought patterns, indoc, etc etc. Anyone who still considered themselves positively identified with a label such as Scientologist, Independent Scientologist, Free Zoner, or any other "denomination" or permutation of the i.d. or label other than those were actively trying to "kick the habit" would not be welcome to post on such a forum ... if there were legal issues about this, that would have to be addressed, but it would be similar to ... at least I would think ... not finding drug pushers or anyone pushing the benefits of alcoholic drinking on a recovering addicts board.

I guess there's more that could be added but I'm tarred (tired) now. And, besides, there may not be much interest in such an idea from others here, not to mention that I don't appear overly popular hereabouts :) since out of a few hundred posts I've made since 2008 (with a 2 years hiatus from late 2008 to late 2010) there's been, shall we say, scant interest :no: (at least in terms of replies) to what I post.

Oh yeah, lately I found myself contributing to the "snide side" more often, which I rarely did or had any interest in during my first stint visiting here. So all the negativism I'd found myself caught up in recently probably helped realize my widdle epiphany today.

Oh, one other thing. I don't know who started the cockeyed notion of a "thread host" or "hosting a thread" but gimmeabreak. :duh: I've been around plenty of forums in my time and ... to be generous ... it's a silly concept. So, no, I won't be "hosting" this topic. It'll just die a natural death, as appropriate, if there's no real interest in the idea. Fuck stats. Fuck thread hosts. And, yeah, fuck osa, too.

I agree with your insightful argument. Either the board is misnamed, or the parameters are off. I left ESMB for a while, this being one reason.

The fact that practitioners of scientology technology are permitted on an ex-Scio board, where people are trying to recover from the cult experience, which INCLUDES the dreck, er, tech, must be sending a rather mixed message to new arrivals.

IANAL, but I don't believe there would be any legal repercussions to limiting membership to exes only. Perhaps potential infiltrators would be more easily detected as a result. YMMV

Until the parameters get changed, I just keep the tech purveyors on my Ignore list and cotton to the threads that interest me. Not sure there's anything else to do, until Emma decides one way or the other, or not at all. Hey, it's her forum... :)
 

AnonKat

Crusader
oh noez

Oh_Shit_Not_Again.jpg
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Oh man, that was too easy. Just call me slacker. Doesn't exactly look like a hotbed of activity. I'm hitting the hay in a bit so will look it over more later. But thanks for the link.

That board was made by an disgruntled ESMB poster who tought the same. (if I remember correctly)
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Even on the Ex-Wife Message Board certain idiots insist on talking about how great the marriage was! Don't get me started!!! :D

:lol::lol::lol:

I would think though that, yeah, positives would be discussed and gone over. Nuttin' wrong with that. I've not been an alkie, well at least not since my late teens :whistling:, but I don't see how full recovery could sidestep what about the experience was positive and not just the negatives.

And, actually, my ex-wife and I get along rather famously after having divorced in '90 or thereabouts. And it did take a pretty unbiased looking at both positives and negatives to arrive at that. But would either one of us want to get back together ... hell no! :)
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Feel free to start one. Personally I don't see much value in such a thing. As with church boards, its only real function would be to provide a place for some people to be "right" and allow them free rein to point out the "wrongness" of others.

One of the greatest "crimes" of the Co$ has been as a result of its efforts to "cut comm" among scientologists & former members of the church. With ESMB, the intention has been to promote open exchanges among all who have left their prior affiliation with the church and any who wish to communicate with them. It doesn't always work out smoothly, but as a goal I see it as a worthy & valuable one. It is certainly a goal worthy pursuit & support.


Mark A. Baker

Yeah, you get what you get on the boards here. Don't get me wrong, an occasional emotional rush of adrenal is cool and all but a steady diet? No thanks. Why couldn't Emma withdraw for the most part and get on with her life, free of the inherent $cientology-based squabbling, in-fighting, blah-blah-blah that always comes along with the subject for those still intimately involved with it. Why was she pulled back in? Well, she knows better than anyone ... but I think that kind of future is gonna be pretty predictable for anyone trying to ride the fence between backyards where the neighbors have some pretty fundamental issues with one another. I just know that, for me, when I was ready to make the break, really prepared and had my fill of it--truly told myself enough was enough-- then I magically found nothing in my way preventing my being done with it and getting pulled back in. YES, I think I do fundamentally understand the dynamics of it. But you know, a steady diet of emotional crap like that is gonna get to you sooner or later.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Yes.
That's sort of how some Exes view scientology, especially the "hell no!" :)

Um, yeah. That would be me (for one). :happydance:

I've said before that I had great <yikes!> wins on beginning, lower chart stuff. And now I can explain them all pretty much in non $cn terms. :happydance: That, too, has been a beeg ween.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
I agree with your insightful argument. Either the board is misnamed, or the parameters are off. I left ESMB for a while, this being one reason.

The fact that practitioners of scientology technology are permitted on an ex-Scio board, where people are trying to recover from the cult experience, which INCLUDES the dreck, er, tech, must be sending a rather mixed message to new arrivals.

IANAL, but I don't believe there would be any legal repercussions to limiting membership to exes only. Perhaps potential infiltrators would be more easily detected as a result. YMMV

Until the parameters get changed, I just keep the tech purveyors on my Ignore list and cotton to the threads that interest me. Not sure there's anything else to do, until Emma decides one way or the other, or not at all. Hey, it's her forum... :)

I can only speak fer myself, Ulf, and in so doing I know that I had sort of a 2 step separation. From '81-94 I still considered myself a $cio but of the "inactive" variety. I mentioned elsewhere that I actually defended it anonymously on an old AOL sub-forum (before the existence of the "web"). But I personally avoided ANY connection with the subject itself; this stage was mostly looking at and considering other viewpoints, even while defending the one I was nearly--but not quite--prepared to abandon. Then, there came a second stage of acceptance of the idea that I was really done with the subject (after '94) and had no desire for anything to do with it or with those involved with it. As I mentioned in a response to CarmellOrchards on another thread, had I not joined staff and remained a public $cn then the story may well have turned out differently.

But as it turned out, near the end of my active period, I did come to know a few of the top insiders and what I experienced I didn't particularly care for. This was during the '82 field take over days -- no, I never met dm, but I had a fairly intimate connection with 2 or 3 who worked directly under him as fellow msgrs of his (not GO or OSA), before coming fully into his own as the monster he is today by all accounts. Those connections have all been out since sometime during the 90's. I haven't had contact with any of them since mid-80's I think it was. But I understand from reading a few things available on the net that at least 1 remains a staunch hubbard supporter (understandable in a way since the relationship began as a child) while a couple of the siblings can't say enough bad things about the hubbard (one of whom also had the relationship to him as a child).

When I ran across ESMB in summer 2008 and began browsing around, eventually creating a user account, I was pretty much only interested in further examining some of my own personal thinking patterns that I recognized as still extant holdovers from my $cn days. So, both postive and negative posts were extremely helpful to me; but no, I found very little of value in what I would have to call the fake Ex-$cientologists (FZer, Independents, whatever other flavor) and found little of value in what they essentially always seemed to be marketing as the new and improved stuff. And, like I said, it has only been now that I really grasped what I had found so irritable about the fz et al ... I was mistaken about the Ex-Scientologist label, even tho' I had read the faq's and thought I agreed, I actually never have agreed with the definition there.

But, maybe the story of that forum linked to earlier, exscnforum or whatever that I haven't had a chance to look much at yet, maybe that's the way it is. In other words, a forum like that might remain a ghost town because Ex's really do like, want, and need the emotional adrenaline rush (if only now-and-then), the drama and excitement, the reality show that is the ESMB show for much of the time. Like Vegas or Atlantic City or wherever; for me a place (Vegas) I was satisfied to visit maybe 3 times in my lifetime and that was it, no desire for more; yet others couldn't imagine a life elsewhere without all the entertainment, gambling, adrenaline rush, pace of living and all; same with other places like Hollywood or wherever.

I dunno. Gotta consider this a little more for myself, I think; let it stew a little on the back burner. It'll come to me.

Oh yeah, my point; I think if I was newly out nowadays and came across this board the way it's structured, I'd probably started out as an anon-defender of the tek. I'm sure my viewpoint would still have eventually shifted as it actually did due to the logic and effective style of some of the "real" Ex's around here. And, who knows; I can't say for sure whether it would have taken any longer or taken less time to decompress.

But I do think that after the 1st major shift takes place where one is for-real ready to abandon the $cn pattern of their thinking and living that the best approach at that time is to COLD TURKEY it from that point onward until you can truly take-it-or-leave-it, doesn't matter. Where you don't have to fight it, don't have to argue against it, don't have to defend anything either, or can't say something positive about it if you experienced it. It JUST DOES NOT MATTER in the overall scheme of your day-to-day life and living. If Hubbard was never born, it would not matter an iota to you. That he was born, oh well, that's fine, too. Fuck him, too. But it's okay with me now that he lived and put across one of the finest cons of the millenium or whatever, as it plays out. I lived it to whatever degree I lived it, and I learned from it, and moved on. If it hadn't been $cio it would have been something else as equally idealistic and idiotic, I'm sure.

I'm rambling, gotta go to bed. Well, crap. The Steelers<>Ravens playoff game is in the 4th with just under 4min.
 
Last edited:
Feel free to start one. Personally I don't see much value in such a thing. As with church boards, its only real function would be to provide a place for some people to be "right" and allow them free rein to point out the "wrongness" of others.

One of the greatest "crimes" of the Co$ has been as a result of its efforts to "cut comm" among scientologists & former members of the church. With ESMB, the intention has been to promote open exchanges among all who have left their prior affiliation with the church and any who wish to communicate with them. It doesn't always work out smoothly, but as a goal I see it as a worthy & valuable one. It is certainly a goal worthy pursuit & support.


Mark A. Baker

Highlighted = More irony from The Maestro.
 

Dukat

Patron with Honors
Paradox, I don't know you but from reading your posts in this thread I think you'd enjoy some parts of www.forums.whyweprotest.net

Besides the chit chat stuff, it is a reference center with many accounts from ex-members who (a) have left the tech and (b) have thicker skin and should I say, love to type 'fuck OSA' and 'L Ron is gone, but The Con lives on.'

You don't have to join, just browse or lurk. So many exes have mistakenly brushed off this Anon site :duh: but didn't really look at what or whom is there. I think it's healthy to browse many sites. Just stay away from the $cilon ones! lol.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
paradox,

What this message board provides, whether intended or not, is point/counter-point discussions about Scientology between those who are ex-CofS (but still freezone Scientologists), independents (who are gradually searching their way out of the SCN mind-set, and get stuck from time-to-time), and true ex-Scientologists.

A true and TOTAL ex-Scientologist message board will not allow for this.
Arnie tried his version of this and it failed.

What do you think about my points above? Just curious.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
<cut> Personally I don't see much value in such a thing. As with church boards, its only real function would be to provide a place for some people to be "right" and allow them free rein to point out the "wrongness" of others.

<cut>
Mark A. Baker

Is that how it is with other recovery forums (of any format, internet or not)? The members only gather to make others wrong and themselves right? Not for open, compassionate discussion about the shared issues of recovery from [blank]? So on one hand you have church boards, marketing and selling "real," originally-as-branded $cio. On the other you'd have fz/independent boards marketing and selling new-and-improved-$cio(s). And on the third hand (for us mutants that have a third hand) you have a recovery board marketing and selling recovery solutions.

Honestly asking since I've never been involved with any recovery forum, ESMB being the closest thing to it for me.
 
Last edited:

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Paradox, I don't know you but from reading your posts in this thread I think you'd enjoy some parts of www.forums.whyweprotest.net

Besides the chit chat stuff, it is a reference center with many accounts from ex-members who (a) have left the tech and (b) have thicker skin and should I say, love to type 'fuck OSA' and 'L Ron is gone, but The Con lives on.'

You don't have to join, just browse or lurk. So many exes have mistakenly brushed off this Anon site :duh: but didn't really look at what or whom is there. I think it's healthy to browse many sites. Just stay away from the $cilon ones! lol.

Thanks, Dukat. I've been there a few times but mostly in relation to something that has been linked from ESMB somewhere. I'll make a point of taking a closer look at more threads over there.

I have occasionally taken a look around at OCMB, tho' not much lately, and didn't really care for the opposition position. I really have no interest in having my life or my personal self-identity being defined by anything to do with the cult or its subject. Finding, then coming back to and posting on this (or some other recovery-oriented) board is the nearest I ever want for a $cio colored swathe of my life. Seems like I see so many here searching in vain for final acceptance and/or release from the cultic mindfuck; that they are failing to notice their lives are nearly as defined by the subject or by their connections (and I don't mean family connections) to those still so heavily influenced that they are sort of stuck here treading water, or in some sort of a suspended Waiting for Godot moment, where "To occupy themselves, they eat, sleep, converse, argue, sing, play games, exercise, swap hats, and contemplate suicide — anything 'to hold the terrible silence at bay' ".

If I still had family members in, I'd probably be more in an activist position, I don't know. But since I don't, and I was never personally anywhere near the inner circle bs so didn't suffer the type of tragedy and abuse like so many at ESMB have, I'm not really interested in a crusade (especially at my age, just having turned 60, sort of the wind-down period as I see it).

For Lord Xenu's sake, I think I'm playing freekin' host!

Sorry, I realize this is more than you cared to hear. So, yeah, thank you for the advice about WWP.
 
Last edited:

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Paradox, I have been around this board for a long time, coming and going as well.

I have observed that there are two main issues that tend to create an uproar from time to time, in an almost predictable cycle.

1. Freedom of speech
2. Why is the FZ here?

There are literally thousands of posts on both subjects if you want to go searching older threads. I think just about every viewpoint one could have has been discussed.

If one's stuck opinions are not challenged, how are you going to recover? How are you even going to know you have them? Sometimes it's what a pro techie says that brings the lightbulb moments and you go WTF about your own entrenched thinking. Sometimes it's not fun and when the ads for scio elsewhere get too much there can be another uproar. It seems to balance out in the end.
To me that is what ESMB embodies.
 
Top