Ex-Scientology Forum

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
paradox,

What this message board provides, whether intended or not, is point/counter-point discussions about Scientology between those who are ex-CofS (but still freezone Scientologists), independents (who are gradually searching their way out of the SCN mind-set, and get stuck from time-to-time), and true ex-Scientologists.

A true and TOTAL ex-Scientologist message board will not allow for this.
Arnie tried his version of this and it failed.

What do you think about my points above? Just curious.

Hey, PG, I'd say that pretty much summed up my much wordier "epiphany" in the OP. I wasn't aware that Arnie had tried a version that had failed. It sure looks like the one referred to earlier on in the topic isn't doin' too hot either. Maybe your first paragraph above is the key; maybe it does take the drama, the stress or at least the dynamics of polarized viewpoint and polemics; to hopefully get beyond that stage to a more serene, quiet acceptance of finally being done. With a danger that, by hangin' around too long and not actually recognizing that you are indeed done with this shit, that you actually become trapped in a system of "beliefs about" (one side or other of the poles) rather than acceptance and release to move on.

And by that stage, if one DOES move on, then maybe, really there is no need for a "true and TOTAL ex-Scientologist message board" or forum because, well, there is no need. Maybe some will find as I did that checking in here from time-to-time is beneficial in terms of something coming up in one's new life and thinking that is somehow reminiscent of an old $cio pattern and sometime the dynamics here can help sort that out. I do it now almost entirely out of boredom with my real life; I suspect that I'm in some sort of transition stage of my own and, well, it feels right to be here for the moment.

'Course I could just be full of shit and would rather be here watchin' the drama and goings on rather than get to work! (semi-retired)
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
paradox,

Arguing with an Engineer is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig:
After a few hours, you realize the pig likes it. :D
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Paradox, I have been around this board for a long time, coming and going as well.

I have observed that there are two main issues that tend to create an uproar from time to time, in an almost predictable cycle.

1. Freedom of speech
2. Why is the FZ here?

There are literally thousands of posts on both subjects if you want to go searching older threads. I think just about every viewpoint one could have has been discussed.

If one's stuck opinions are not challenged, how are you going to recover? How are you even going to know you have them? Sometimes it's what a pro techie says that brings the lightbulb moments and you go WTF about your own entrenched thinking. Sometimes it's not fun and when the ads for scio elsewhere get too much there can be another uproar. It seems to balance out in the end.
To me that is what ESMB embodies.

You're right, FTS. I hadn't read your post when I made my reply before this one here and I kinda was getting at that myself. Your version is more succinct and to the point. Jeeze ... I mean Xeenuz ... I think I've been in Gadfly's valence. :duh: [joking, Gaddie]
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
paradox said:
I do it now almost entirely out of boredom with my real life; ...

Bored? Are you kidding me? :D

I am on-line shopping today for a KVM switch (minimum 8 ports) for a computer server rack.
Tomorrow I will be shopping for a 120Hz 46 inch (117 cm) LCD TV.
I am planning on connecting the LCD TV to my home network.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
paradox,

Arguing with an Engineer is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig:
After a few hours, you realize the pig likes it. :D


:lol:

Or stuck in a recurring Monty Python nightmare of the argument clinic skit. And only being saved by taking a piss in the middle of the skit and finally realizing after an ongoing and endless, never ending and never relieving stream, that I was dreaming and actually had to pee and right NOW. Wake the fu-u-ck up! :duh:
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Bored? Are you kidding me? :D

I am on-line shopping today for a KVM switch (minimum 8 ports) for a computer server rack.
Tomorrow I will be shopping for a 120Hz 46 inch (117 cm) LCD TV.
I am planning on connecting the LCD TV to my home network.

Pfft. I did my shopping last night and bought a Wireless-N300 (b/g/n) router to compliment my wired gigabit router so I can finally free up my laptop and take it in the kitchen so I don't hafta print out recipes no mo'. That and my daughter got a new BluRay dvd player for xmas to hook up to my ... 56 inch ... (okay, not lcd or plasma but rear projection standards as of 2005) hdtv that takes a wired or wireless connection so's I can do ... whatever. :lol:

THEN, I was bored and had to come here for some adrenalin rush. :coolwink:
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
A huge rear projection TV would probably be 720p.
Another engineer that I know at work has that.

I'm going to go shopping for a 1080p LCD tomorrow.

I might finally "cave in" and buy an edge-lit LED TV but I don't know if I would tolerate the uneven backlighting in a dark room. But this may not matter, since I never watch TV in a dark room. The complete LED backlights TVs cost a lot more than I want to pay at this time. And 240Hz (for 3D) is out of the question because there won't be much on 3D for about 5 years from now.
 
Is that how it is with other recovery forums (of any format, internet or not)? The members only gather to make others wrong and themselves right? Not for open, compassionate discussion about the shared issues of recovery from [blank]? ...

If the need exists to filter out different views by limiting the membership to those who have completely broken with all aspects of a subject then what is proposed is not a forum intended for open compassionate discussion about shared issues of recovery from ... . The assumption is incompatible with the stated purpose.


Mark A. Baker
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
If the need exists to filter out different views by limiting the membership to those who have completely broken with all aspects of a subject then what is proposed is not a forum intended for open compassionate discussion about shared issues of recovery from ... . The assumption is incompatible with the stated purpose.


Mark A. Baker

That's what I was saying... but in different words.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
A huge rear projection TV would probably be 720p.
Another engineer that I know at work has that.

I'm going to go shopping for a 1080p LCD tomorrow.

I might finally "cave in" and buy an edge-lit LED TV but I don't know if I would tolerate the uneven backlighting in a dark room. But this may not matter, since I never watch TV in a dark room. The complete LED backlights TVs cost a lot more than I want to pay at this time. And 240Hz (for 3D) is out of the question because there won't be much on 3D for about 5 years from now.

Yeah, 720p and 1080i I think the specs are. Rear Proj. sucks when it comes to handling black tones, you end up with a muddy black, particularly under bright light conditions; not so bad at night. I haven't kept up with the tech since making my 2005 purchase so have been out of the loop on latest jargon and buzzwords but I'm sure things have improved since.

Sounds like you're gonna be set whatever you decide on. From what I read up on about 3D tv at around the time of Avatar's release it didn't sound like anything at all to get in a stir about, even for the near or medium term. Nothing I'd be interested in anyways, especially for the price range they were talkin' about. For that matter I went to see Avatar in 3D on the big screen and didn't really care much for it. Could have been my 60 yr old eyes but I much preferred the 2D version.

Have a great time with the remainder of yer spree, PG. Finally gonna hit the sack. Been up now over 24hrs after spending xenu knows how many hours searching through wireless specs - seems I don't keep up with the latest and greatest tech stuff anymore since retiring from IT until I need/want something new and then I hafta catch up all at once. Anyways, 'nite.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
If the need exists to filter out different views by limiting the membership to those who have completely broken with all aspects of a subject then what is proposed is not a forum intended for open
compassionate discussion about shared issues of recovery from ... . The assumption is incompatible with the stated purpose.

Mark A. Baker

Not at all, at least in the sense that you would still have open discussion occuring amongst the recovery-oriented only, without the added distraction of opposing viewpoints to the fact of recovery itself and whether or not there was anything real to recover from, that recovering from one substance/subject/organization is acceptable but there is nothing to recover from another substance/subject/organization because this one isn't abusive or has been reformed etc etc etc. But more particularly with individuals who were actually marketing, selling, or pushing those alternate or purportedly improved substances/subjects/organizations to a group who ONLY wish to discuss the facts of recovery only. But as pointed out in earlier posts, with respect to $cio, there doesn't seem to be much of any specific demand for such a public group considering at least the 2 that have been mentioned so far.

But, as I've considered elsewhere, I can now see more clearly that there is certainly a value to open discussion in the sense of encouraging come-one-come-all viewpoints. And, as I think FTS has said, it isn't a static participation anyways but very dynamic in terms of content and individuals contributing or coming and going at any given period.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I think the problem with only allowing critical exes on a forum would be that the conversations would go something like this.

Poster 1: L Ron Hubbard Sucks!
Poster 2: Yeah he sure does.
Poster 3: I think so too!

Poster 1: There is no value in the tech.
Poster 2: Yeah none at all.
Poster 3: I agree.

Poster 1: The Freezone sucks donkey balls!
Poster 2: Naah, it sucks gorilla balls!
poster 3: Naah, it sucks giraffe balls!
 

Mystic

Crusader
I think the problem with only allowing critical exes on a forum would be that the conversations would go something like this.

Poster 1: L Ron Hubbard Sucks!
Poster 2: Yeah he sure does.
Poster 3: I think so too!

Poster 1: There is no value in the tech.
Poster 2: Yeah none at all.
Poster 3: I agree.

Poster 1: The Freezone sucks donkey balls!
Poster 2: Naah, it sucks gorilla balls!
poster 3: Naah, it sucks giraffe balls!

Now wait just a minute. Giraffe balls are way too high for an FZer to suck.
 

Veda

Sponsor
It's not unusual for people leaving the Cof$ to still think of themselves as Scientologists. This is usually a temporary and transitional situation. It changes over time. Most people evolve beyond Scientology after a while. If no people in that category were allowed on ESMB, then it would no longer be a means for that important step to occur.

There are some, of course, who do not evolve. They are the "lifers," and it does, sometimes, become slightly annoying to see one of these "lifers" subjecting others to some of the same misleading PR that exists inside $cientology.

For example, there's the old $cientology PR response to the question, "What is Scientology?" That response being, "Read 'Dianetics'" or "read 'Fundamentals of Thought'," etc., as if some 1950s book by Hubbard was representative of the doctrine of Scientology.

However, when such as the above occurs, there is usually someone to provide additional information and perspective.

For example:

But seriously, Mark, didn't we decide to not use this lame comeback last year when you asked me that same poignant question with all tone-40 bold caps...

"HAVE YOU EVER EVEN READ THE BASICS BOOKS?!!!"

Remember I told you that before you had even heard the word Scientology I had read them all several times and was supervising and C/Sing the Briefing Course?

That question kinda really backfired on you, didn't it?

Why do you go back to this unworkable tech of asking that question again? You can do better than this!

I think having a Scientology FreeZone, Independent Scientology, Ron's Orgs section at the bottom of ESMB is a good idea. It's a kind of doorway for some who are just leaving, or thinking of leaving, $cientology. I'm willing to put up with the PRing, PR damage control, misleading arguments, etc., of one or two "lifers" so that those who are not "lifers," but are simply going through a phase, can find a place on ESMB to continue their evolution through and beyond Scientology.
 

Sindy

Crusader
It's not unusual for people leaving the Cof$ to still think of themselves as Scientologists. This is usually a temporary and transitional situation. It changes over time. Most people evolve beyond Scientology after a while. If no people in that category were allowed on ESMB, then it would no longer be a means for that important step to occur.

There are some, of course, who do not evolve. They are the "lifers," and it does, sometimes, become slightly annoying to see one of these "lifers" subjecting others to some of the same misleading PR that exists inside $cientology.

For example, there's the old $cientology PR response to the question, "What is Scientology?" That response being, "Read 'Dianetics'" or "read 'Fundamentals of Thought'," etc., as if some 1950s book by Hubbard was representative of the doctrine of Scientology.

However, when such as the above occurs, there is usually someone to provide additional information and perspective.

For example:



I think having a Scientology FreeZone, Independent Scientology, Ron's Orgs section at the bottom of ESMB is a good idea. It's a kind of doorway for some who are just leaving, or thinking of leaving, $cientology. I'm willing to put up with the PRing, PR damage control, misleading arguments, etc., of one or two "lifers" so that those who are not "lifers," but are simply going through a phase, can find a place on ESMB to continue their evolution through and beyond Scientology.

Great post. BTW...Damn! What do you do, tab posts for later use? You are a walking encyclopedia of pertinent and usable data for every situation at a moments notice. I hail you! :bowdown:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I think the problem with only allowing critical exes on a forum would be that the conversations would go something like this.

Poster 1: L Ron Hubbard Sucks!
Poster 2: Yeah he sure does.
Poster 3: I think so too!

Poster 1: There is no value in the tech.
Poster 2: Yeah none at all.
Poster 3: I agree.

Poster 1: The Freezone sucks donkey balls!
Poster 2: Naah, it sucks gorilla balls!
poster 3: Naah, it sucks giraffe balls!

I don't think there's any need to limit membership at all. I appreciate you allowing us OSA posters, it really makes our jobs easier.
 

Ulf K. Maier

Patron Meritorious
Maybe, but...

I think the problem with only allowing critical exes on a forum would be that the conversations would go something like this.

Poster 1: L Ron Hubbard Sucks!
Poster 2: Yeah he sure does.
Poster 3: I think so too!

Poster 1: There is no value in the tech.
Poster 2: Yeah none at all.
Poster 3: I agree.

Poster 1: The Freezone sucks donkey balls!
Poster 2: Naah, it sucks gorilla balls!
poster 3: Naah, it sucks giraffe balls!

Hi Emma!

Thanks for your insight.

Hey, it doesn't sound so bad! The chatbox is more or less like this :rock:

Has it been actually put into practice yet? Maybe we could do a trial run... :wink2:

Wouldn't you agree, though, as an ex, that what in the end amounts to the selling of the *new, improved scientology* is just :puke:? Rathbun left (or was chased out of) ESMB due to this, didn't (wasn't) he? That was my reading of the original thread and comments made on other threads, since...

Also, think of all the acrimony we'd be spared :)
 
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