What's new

Ex-Sea Org circa 2012

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't know the man personally, and I've seen no conclusive evidence to suggest that he is a psychopath. The only times I have seen him, namely speaking at events, he was composed and lucid. I would describe him as a good public speaker.

Because the point is, what’s already manifest in terms of public information centers and all introductory routes, not to mention ideal facilities… Well, the truth is what those facilities will soon present will blow you away. Or perhaps I should say, blow you fifty feet out of your head. And since this recent big push, where I know a lot is demanded from all of us, you, in terms of providing energy and wherewithal to lay down the eternal foundation of Scientology, we can be in terms of all else that comprises the LRH legacy to achieve the advancement of Scientologists up the Bridge, thus by extension in working together to in turn multiply dissemination in the (…) levels, commensurate with what is provided in planetary clearing, well, in light of all that, I should also tell you this. There is indeed a transitional make or break point, meaning a new plauteau which later makes possible something more.
http://tonyortega.org/2013/03/27/david-miscavige-declares-scientologys-golden-age/

Thanks for reminding me about his public speaking. I love reading the transcripts of Dainty Dave's speeches.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Can we not feed the troll anymore.

"Hey guys, I'm an ex Scientologist too but I don't hate Scientology. Scientology is just fine. I don't know what the big deal is."

:duh::duh::duh:

dont-feed-the-troll.jpg
iiq77xee0m.jpg
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
how do you know he is a troll?
it took me years to figure out it really was worse than i thought.
if he doesn't have the information, he doesn't have the information.
sheeesh.
 
Can we not feed the troll anymore.

"Hey guys, I'm an ex Scientologist too but I don't hate Scientology. Scientology is just fine. I don't know what the big deal is."

:duh::duh::duh:

View attachment 5922
iiq77xee0m.jpg

Doesn't matter one way or the other as he and others reading this thread are getting educated. Keep in mind that a lot of people are coming to this and other sites for the first time. They might not have yet heard Debbie's testimony or read the Truth Rundown series, etc. Also when one is first out it is not an easy task to separate the "wheat from the chaff" so to speak.

Anyway, the OP stated he saw no "evidence" that DM was a psychopath. Debbie Cooke's testimony is such evidence that, as far as I know, was never disputed in court.

I look forward to hearing back from the OP after he has listened to Debbie's testimony along with the original videos from the Truth Rundown.
 

Gib

Crusader
Yes, and I've watched a few of Marty Rathbun's interviews as well. There do seem to be quite a few people saying that DM is physically and psychologically abusive.

So, what do think about that?

Any conclusions?

Is it true or false?
 

kate8024

-deleted-
So, what do think about that?

Any conclusions?

Is it true or false?

I'm not sure that it is fair to pressure someone to state a personal judgement about someone, even if that person is DM. I'm not saying that you, Gib, are doing this but several messages in this thread by a couple people taken together add up to pressuring Ral to say "yes he is a psychopath" or "no he isn't" and both of those answers have a lot of implications along with them. (obviously I don't mean he shouldn't be provided with info, just that he might need time to digest that info and draw conclusions)
 

Gib

Crusader
I'm not sure that it is fair to pressure someone to state a personal judgement about someone, even if that person is DM. I'm not saying that you, Gib, are doing this but several messages in this thread by a couple people taken together add up to pressuring Ral to say "yes he is a psychopath" or "no he isn't" and both of those answers have a lot of implications along with them. (obviously I don't mean he shouldn't be provided with info, just that he might need time to digest that info and draw conclusions)

I'll disregard your response to my questions to Ral,

and let him answer

and reply to him, not you.

I only asked some questions.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Personally I think DM is more of a sociopath. Sociopaths can be harder to discern because they often appear normal. Ral wasn't close enough to him enough during his time at Bridge.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I don't think I have ever seen a newcomer asked so many questions, though I know it's because your experience is recent.
Although I understand what leads the posts about trolls it still annoys me when someone new is jumped on like that. It's so unnecessary and who knows what distress it can cause when it's not true? Sheesh.

Thanks for your answers, and your patience.
 

Ral Z

Patron
So, what do think about that?

It's very interesting.

Any conclusions?

Seems plausible.

Is it true or false?

That I don't know.

Look, I don't even need to know if DM is an ass hole personally to know that he's the leader of the Church of Scientology. There are a number of outpoints in the Church of Scientology, that I can and have observed, which I think are quite reasonable to hold him responsible for. I'd prefer to talk about some of those, because they involve much less hearsay and speculation, and they are in my view all the more damning.

For example, I'd prefer to talk about how, after LRH's death, Sea Org family time was canceled and SO members weren't allowed to have children anymore. How in this manner the Church has blatantly inhibited the second dynamic of what it should regard as its most important people.

Or I'd even prefer to talk about how the Church seems to be obsessed with acquiring real estate and promoting "new" releases as its mainline activites, as opposed to actually getting the lines in at the org level so that there are actual students and preclears inside of them.

Sure, these are Scientology problems. To someone who's already rejected LRH and Scientology, they don't matter. But people can actually observe these outpoints for themselves, whereas any accusations that DM is an abuser will be met by Scientologists with eye rolls and, "Of course they would say that."
 
Top