Ex-Sea Org / Scientology member message for current members

Zander

Patron with Honors
Maybe you are correct that "all" staff must be boneheads to some degree.

Who are you talkin' to now? Yourself? You were the only person to imply that!

This doesn't mean they are not compassionate individuals with a true desire
to help. They are not mutually exclusive things.

Thanks for the clarification.

But you are still twisting my words when I said I was never a 100 percent
card carrying bonehead. I never said that to be a staff member makes
you a 100 percent bonehead.

Yeah, whatever.

I can understand that some people THRIVE on being in a controlled environment like scientology. They want a sense of belonging. Many
love the discipline and being told what to do. I do understand WHY many
poeple.

Scientology is very good at preying on the weak. That doesn't make them bad people.

But the weak are not just preyed upon by Scientology. Many spend their whole lives floating from one situation to another where their good nature is taken advantage of.

I wouldn't go along with the above generalisation, but I suppose it could apply to a few.

Now, Alanzo's waiting for an answer, so get typing :)

Zander
 

Pitbull

Patron with Honors
When someone screws you over, there is an implied "debt" of
sorts. Like when someone steals or cons you, they "stole" something.
Stole your money, time, innocence.

But there is no "law" (other than some vague idea of a karmic law)
to extract restitution from, so either you have to just forgive
them, extract some kind of revenge, or hold a grudge.

Of the above options, forgiveness is generally the best. Not much
profit in revenge or grudge holding.

I do undertand the pressure on individuals. No group is better
at applying all manner of constant pressure inside and out.

Once they get you to "believe" in the system, its all over.

And yes, the average staffer really just believed that everything
they were doing was for the "greater good".

Maybe thats part of the motivation for some to speak out and protest.

Maybe the biggest test is what people actually DO on leaving Scientology.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
When someone screws you over, there is an implied "debt" of
sorts. Like when someone steals or cons you, they "stole" something.
Stole your money, time, innocence.

But there is no "law" (other than some vague idea of a karmic law)
to extract restitution from, so either you have to just forgive
them, extract some kind of revenge, or hold a grudge.

Of the above options, forgiveness is generally the best. Not much
profit in revenge or grudge holding.

I do undertand the pressure on individuals. No group is better
at applying all manner of constant pressure inside and out.

Once they get you to "believe" in the system, its all over.

And yes, the average staffer really just believed that everything
they were doing was for the "greater good".

Maybe thats part of the motivation for some to speak out and protest.

Maybe the biggest test is what people actually DO on leaving Scientology.

I think you are saying that you resent the staff members who took advantage of you.

Is that right?

And you are among the "us" you were referring to that is "owed" by Scientology staff members.

Is that correct?

If so, I understand that. And I have much guilt for the way I preyed on people, whenever I did, as a staff member out to get my stats up and clear the planet. I've been paying for it ever since. It's a big reason I'm on ESMB, and Beliefnet before, and why I try to contact and stay in touch with anyone I ever got into Scientology. And why I keep trying to cleanse myself of my sins as a Scientologist.

All of this is part of that for me.

How about you?

Do you have any sins as a Scientologist?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Of course not.

I am pure as pure can be.

Like white on rice.

I'm also very humble!

OK. Well I've got a lot of sins as a Scientologist. I went against my whole philosophy of life, after being recruited using the ideals from my whole philosophy of life against me.

How the hell did that happen?

Do you know?
 
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Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Yes, many do "care" but the fact is clear:

Many of of the staffers and sea org were/are wonderful folks.

But many of them were goons. And all are culpable.

How many of these "nice folks" made your life miserable at one
time or another by playing along?

Leaving and coming clean is a great start. We all learned
some harsh lessons. That doesn't mean these folks were
some kind of tragic heros.

They actually owe us big time and should be thankful if
we can forgive them and give them a pass.


speaking for meself personally Pitbull - I really don't give a fuck what you think.
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
Let's fight among ourselves...

Hit-punch-kick- scratch-gouge-slam-bam-sock'em- repeat-repeat-repeat! Have enough-ok repeat- I'm right-no you're wrong-repeat. Have enough?
:duh:
 

Pitbull

Patron with Honors
Yup, whenever someone has a learned, sage and balanced view that somehow differs from the "prevailing" wisdom, then it must be from a troll.

But Kudos to you Mick! You shouldn't give a fuck about what I think!
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yup, whenever someone has a learned, sage and balanced view that somehow differs from the "prevailing" wisdom, then it must be from a troll.

But Kudos to you Mick! You shouldn't give a fuck about what I think!

Troll is the new SP!
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yup, whenever someone has a learned, sage and balanced view that somehow differs from the "prevailing" wisdom, then it must be from a troll.

But Kudos to you Mick! You shouldn't give a fuck about what I think!

Fair dos.

Maybe you're just clumsy in the way you express yourself, but saying you're lily white etc. in the middle of that thread was asking for trouble (even if you hadn't already said that people who joined Scn staff are boneheads).

I saw you do a similar thing in one of the Plymouth Org protest threads when you said the Church were above the law and therefore there was no point in trying to fight them.

The effect was that of a spanner in the works + confusion; I wasn't at all sure which side you were on or what you were trying to say and I'm still not.

So, giving you the benefit of the doubt here, where do you stand? Are you on the side of the Church, the protestors or somewhere in the middle?
 
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Pitbull

Patron with Honors
Excellent question cat's paw!

Nothing worse that making assumptions.

I'd say I'm on all sides. Just some sides more than others.

What I mean is that I try to look at all sides, and at times,
taking a particular "viewpoint" is more meaningful or interesting
in a discussion.

But its not all just "devils advocate" or fun and games.

I do have personal leanings and opinions too. Its not always so
cut and dried in the Scientology world.

For the most part, I am thrilled NOT to be on lines and that my long-standing
suspicions about the church were vindicated. But I was involved off-and-on
for many years. I can also understand many of the points of view of those either totally trapped inside, or who find Scientology fills a need that
could not be filled elswhere.

I also appreciate many aspects of the Freezone, or those who found something useful that could be done quite well outside the church, or even improved upon. The church is lousy at discarding innefective techniques or
developing newer and simpler ones.

Additionally, or morover, I do understand that many just feel the whole thing is codswallup, and so much of it is, then why bother
with any of it.

And then there is the whole camaraderie thing of those who find joy in the common target of the church.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Mostly you seem to be about lowering the level of discussion and being irritating Pit. A lot like a 'black-dianetics' Tone Scale exercise.

But, whatever floats your scow.

Zinj
 
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