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Excerpt Class VIII Auditor lecture series.

G

Gottabrain

Guest
That's in a lot of his tapes, luv.

What struck me is the beginning failure to enunciate correctly that disappears later on (so not a toothache or similar). Hubbard drunk or on drugs, definitely.

Herd of cows?

Of course I've heard of cows.

No, a cow herd.

What do I care what a cow heard?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
:laugh: So glad to have you back Alanzo!

Wouldn't it have been great if someone on the Class 8 course would have had the courage to raise their hand and say that to him at the time?

His head would have exploded, or a vein in his neck would have ruptured, and none of us would have ever had to deal with any of this crap.

If anyone ever invents a time machine, this is the first thing they should do.
 

R6Basic

Patron Meritorious
So, Assessment = S & D = Listing and nulling which is = S & D and is always apples and Assessment = list and null and bongo, bongo, bongo = Yik, yik, yik which is always assessment!

wow! and I thought being a class VIII auditor would be hard.
 
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Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I get it.

Listing & Nulling is another way of saying Assessment.

NO!!! Assessment has nothing to do with Listing and Nulling!!! NONE! NONE! NONE!

Sheesh, no wonder the Class 8 tapes are confidential, you would have to be pretty well duped and in the bag before you could listen to this and agree with it let alone make sense of it!
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
thanks

Yes , thanks Ron , I now understand the difference between assesment from a prepared list and listing and nulling ( from the PC ) - Having been on the recieving end of so many wrong indications from the C of S and life at large , I hope some well meaning freezoner can sort this out for me using EITHER a prepared list or " listing and nulling ".

Mr Hubbard sure had a take on things later in his career that I personally and most others did not enjoy - but regardless of his eccentricities and his behavior has made a fantastic contribution , even if chunks of it were plagerised ! and he as a person was a pain in the arse or worse .

I will be signing up for some freezone services in the not too distant future , and I will be looking for an auditor who knows the difference between
" assesment " and " listing and nulling " due to this post ! Well Done ! :)
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Yes , thanks Ron , I now understand the difference between assesment from a prepared list and listing and nulling ( from the PC ) - Having been on the recieving end of so many wrong indications from the C of S and life at large , I hope some well meaning freezoner can sort this out for me using EITHER a prepared list or " listing and nulling ".

Mr Hubbard sure had a take on things later in his career that I personally and most others did not enjoy - but regardless of his eccentricities and his behavior has made a fantastic contribution , even if chunks of it were plagerised ! and he as a person was a pain in the arse or worse .

I will be signing up for some freezone services in the not too distant future , and I will be looking for an auditor who knows the difference between
" assesment " and " listing and nulling " due to this post ! Well Done ! :)

I wonder if those wrong indications from Scientology stem from a confusion about Prepared Lists and Listing and Nulling or, rather, from the excessive self-assurance of someone using a "Tech" that always "works."

Scientology - particularly at its "upper levels" is loaded with "wrong indications," and it's very much "IN-Tech." One is expected to adjust and happily become a smooth ball bearing on the assembly line to Total Freedom.

As for the issue at hand, I understood the difference between Prepared Lists and L&Ning already - long before hearing this (probably) amphetamine or cocaine-energized outburst.

One of the difficulties with presenting audios of Hubbard lecturing is that - to some extent, on certain occasions - he can make sense, and even be "brilliant."

A blanket ridiculing of all of Hubbard's outpouring in a particular recorded lecture or excerpt can sometimes backfire.

For what it's worth, here's my take on this same excerpt from an earlier thread on it:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=149161&postcount=25

Click upper right to read the entire thread.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Yes , thanks Ron , I now understand the difference between assesment from a prepared list and listing and nulling ( from the PC ) - Having been on the recieving end of so many wrong indications from the C of S and life at large , I hope some well meaning freezoner can sort this out for me using EITHER a prepared list or " listing and nulling ".

Mr Hubbard sure had a take on things later in his career that I personally and most others did not enjoy - but regardless of his eccentricities and his behavior has made a fantastic contribution , even if chunks of it were plagerised ! and he as a person was a pain in the arse or worse .

I will be signing up for some freezone services in the not too distant future , and I will be looking for an auditor who knows the difference between
" assesment " and " listing and nulling " due to this post ! Well Done ! :)

You're always welcome to contact me if you have any hitches there. :)
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
For Veda

A quote from Veda : Scientology - particularly at its "upper levels" is loaded with "wrong indications," and it's very much "IN-Tech." One is expected to adjust and happily become a smooth ball bearing on the assembly line to Total Freedom ( end of quote )

-------
Oh Yes - I am well prepared to be a "revisionist " when it comes to the "upper levels" - I have a wonderful cure for Mr hubbard's more evaluative moments , best described by a class 8 on this link :

http://www.lightlink.com/archive/rfitch/raf2.memo - Well worth a good read if anyone is wondering how to make sense of things !
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
For Terril Park ..

Thanks - I am very keen , I want to do things like life repair , the purification rundown , grades , sort out my clear status , happiness rundown , confessionals - I am intrigued with the idea of having auditing without all the stress , politics and inval eval in all its forms - the best of scientology minus the worst of it probably goes further than anyone ever knew...

It will be a while before I can finacially make it to a suitable group , but it will happen ! :happydance:
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
Those who are not trained do not understand Ron, he is emphasizing the difference simply because at the time and even worse now, many auditors misunderstood the difference between assessment with Listing and Nulling.

Because in listing and Nulling the PC gives the item and if the correct item is not found, or if the the PC is given a wrong item it an be very dangerous to the PC's case. Ron is exasperated because many PCs are out list.

A person who is out list, meaning by this with a wrong indication, wether in life or form session can become very exasperated, angry or go into apathy and it won't come out of this unless it is corrected and this is very serious.

And example in life could be, let's say the father calls the son a lazy good for nothing and if the son has been working really hard and trying that would be a wrong indication= and out list; and you can imagine how that feels that they tell you something that you are not. It can be very upsetting and cause a major ARCx.

Also let's say the son commits suicide and somebody tells the father it was his fault because he did not take care of him, and if not true the father will have this guilt or will wonder why the son did that and will go for the rest of his life listing for reasons and never finding them .

But also it can happen in session that a listing question is asked by the auditor and they do not find the correct item; then the PC might even get sick, I am not kidding just take a look at all the wrong indications DM gives the staff and they are all a mess, many SO even become dysfunctional as a result of wrongly assigned conditions=out list, or wrong indications and since they never get audited for case gain but for post....and take a look at the wrong indications they have been giving to PCs by telling them they are OT, Clear or whatever when they are not...or they are telling that they are in a low condition when they are or not...the poor PCs are confused! Again, wrong listing.

Or simply telling them that the correct SP is pop or mom and they have to disconnect when the true SPs are those who are doing that. They get the incorrect item and go into apathy.

Where on the other hand if Listing and nulling is not confussed with assessment is done correctly and given the correct item the person or the PC will brighten up.

I hope that I explained myself correctly, pardon me but English is not my first language.
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
One more thing, I really liked that tape when I heard in the Class VIII course because I really understood Ron's frustration with the mistakes being done by the auditors and made me realize the importance of Listing, out lists and it's consequences.

Also those who think he was crazy...anonkat my friend..not in my book, he was not...there he was in a private lecture talking his heart out in confidence to auditors who were Gr 0 release and were very eager to become professional.
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
thanks , Dianaclass8

I myself have serious issues with he validity of the OT3 incident , however some have claimed to have encountered part of the incident well before they encountered it on the level itself - I will conceed that something may well have happened back there , but for me this remains to be re- examined .
 

Veda

Sponsor
One more thing, I really liked that tape when I heard in the Class VIII course because I really understood Ron's frustration with the mistakes being done by the auditors and made me realize the importance of Listing, out lists and it's consequences.

Also those who think he was crazy...anonkat my friend..not in my book, he was not...there he was in a private lecture talking his heart out in confidence to auditors who were Gr 0 release and were very eager to become professional.

From my observation, it was not unusual for Scientologists to submissively (but happily) bond with what they perceived as a dynamic and forceful father figure ("alpha male") in "Ron."

I've seen this happily submissive bonding occur in Scientology many times, and it was one of the reasons I became disenchanted with Scientology and Scientologists even though, at the time, I didn't understand the nature of the seemingly "hypnotic" relationship between "Ron" and his disciples.

This agreeable disciple (and soon to be "OT," he or she thinks at least), and the "Ron as Source," "Ron as Commodore," and "Ron as the savior of the Galaxy"-relationship, when added to the array of manipulative methods employed by Hubbard ("Your next endless trillions," http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, etc., etc.), and to to the bits of truth (sometimes brilliant truths) in the mix, can make for some pretty strong mental-glue.

Some never become unstuck, some partially recover, some fully recover.

Here's are two descriptions of the original Class 8 course from two students who were there:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=111141&postcount=7

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=111030&postcount=2
 
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