False Memories Anyone?

[La La Lou Lou]

The day or so after watching that lecture it still makes me think.

Its not just false memories, what she's talking about is manipulation of someones mind. Youre expected to recall past lives so you do. Youre expected to remember your pregnant mum masturbating, youre expected to remember Xenus little holiday scam etc etc. You end up working without sleep, money, only impossibly poor food, unable to have sex unless youre married...because you want to. On the RPF you learn that youre not fit to talk to other people because you are so evil, and you can feel the evil within you, a black chasm eminating a spiritual stench, you know you want to crash stats, that you are incapable of having an upstat, whatever the stat is. Pretty soon babies scream when you come near, perfectly well people sneeze when they see you and cows fall over in their field as you approach.

You get told what MU's do and pretty soon you get caved in because you dont understand anything anymore.

Yes its not just memories that got implanted in our brains, you dont need heavy electricity to implant people, a good scientologist does it all day long, without effort.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Yeah, Bent Corydon once said something like that in a staff meeting. I was there when he said it.
This is the type of stuff that should be put under scientific scrutiny and not just believed from anecdotal stories.

Maybe for someone who wants to quantify it thus, sure. But if it's a spiritual exercise then it would be up to the person who has the alleged memory and he or she does not have to if he or she does not want to.

Okay, what do you "understand" about the cat bodies and doll bodies that Hubbard mentioned on "the Whole Track" from the PDC lectures?
I can quote a few items and see what you say? Are you game for this?
Let's make a topic on this item on this thread..

I did give you my perspective on that, such as it is. That and four bux will get you a latte at Starbucks, tho'.

I think people have had recollections of same but that they are not provable.

I personally love the idea of doll bodies but then again, that's because I like fantasy and fairy tales.


I didn't think that you would have an explanation about what Jeff said to me. I am not surprised. Jeff told the truth.[/QUOTE]

I did give you my perspective on that, such as it is. But that and 4 bux will get you a latte at Starbucks...

 

[Voltaire's Child]

The day or so after watching that lecture it still makes me think.

Its not just false memories, what she's talking about is manipulation of someones mind. Youre expected to recall past lives so you do. Youre expected to remember your pregnant mum masturbating, youre expected to remember Xenus little holiday scam etc etc. You end up working without sleep, money, only impossibly poor food, unable to have sex unless youre married...because you want to. On the RPF you learn that youre not fit to talk to other people because you are so evil, and you can feel the evil within you, a black chasm eminating a spiritual stench, you know you want to crash stats, that you are incapable of having an upstat, whatever the stat is. Pretty soon babies scream when you come near, perfectly well people sneeze when they see you and cows fall over in their field as you approach.

You get told what MU's do and pretty soon you get caved in because you dont understand anything anymore.

Yes its not just memories that got implanted in our brains, you dont need heavy electricity to implant people, a good scientologist does it all day long, without effort.

And I've heard of people who told their C/Ses that they didn't have Incident II.

I do think there is a lot of eval present in the OT levels. And there's a lot of indoctrination in CofS. Only the strong can stand up to it. This forum is full of such individuals.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Fluffy, you have a point there, the stronger ones are the ones that can see through the evaluations and invalidations of 'standard' sighentology.

This board certainly helps to clear the mist fog and smoke away.

 

[Boojuum]

You get it

The day or so after watching that lecture it still makes me think.

Its not just false memories, what she's talking about is manipulation of someones mind. Youre expected to recall past lives so you do. Youre expected to remember your pregnant mum masturbating, youre expected to remember Xenus little holiday scam etc etc. You end up working without sleep, money, only impossibly poor food, unable to have sex unless youre married...because you want to. On the RPF you learn that youre not fit to talk to other people because you are so evil, and you can feel the evil within you, a black chasm eminating a spiritual stench, you know you want to crash stats, that you are incapable of having an upstat, whatever the stat is. Pretty soon babies scream when you come near, perfectly well people sneeze when they see you and cows fall over in their field as you approach.

You get told what MU's do and pretty soon you get caved in because you dont understand anything anymore.

Yes its not just memories that got implanted in our brains, you dont need heavy electricity to implant people, a good scientologist does it all day long, without effort.

Exactly, LLLL! you must have M9 w/c'd the lecture--which doesn't stick on false memories. It shows how we can be fed false memories. The lecture is freeing. As a scio, we're all pre-programmed into believing in this infallable time track which is endless and endlessly impinging on us and robbing us of our godliness. Well, what if it wasn't? What if the fabled time track only rarely impinges upon us and what's really holding us back is the simple stuff like integrity and making intelligent choices. ?!? Works for me. It's boring, but effective.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Yep, La La Lou Lou. I really do think that I've really been privileged to meet some really strong decent people on this board and also on other forums. Smart, funny, and very ornery. My kind of people.

 

[Pepin]

IMO, most, if not all, of the past lives stuff that comes up in auditing is "dub-in".
There is no way out of that. Even though Hubbard had a bit to say in the PDC lectures about doll bodies, cat bodies, etc. It's all dub-in.
(Would you like for me to quote some items from the PDC lectures?)

When I was on staff and found out that Jeff Kovack (a reg) had blown and came back I asked him why he would doubt SCN auditing and he told me that, when he blew, that he thought when he blew that his Dianetic auditing incidents were all made up in his own mind (paraphrasing). And that is probably more truth than you will ever get from any FZ involvement.

To know what is truth....

After Scientology, I experienced Forgetting. I had completely forgotten some of the unbelievable stuff I had experienced doing NOTS.
Experience yes, not memory or daydreaming. It bothered me greatly that I had forgotten such amazing experiences.
About 20 years later, I began to remember some things... amazing things.
I had to track down a blown class XII I know to help put things in perspective.
it seems that it was a common experience to forget what we had done. It's not normal stuff in this world.
I think the real hypnosis is the song of disbelief sung by the world and I started humming right along to the tune of amnesia.

(It's got a beat and you can dance to it)

 

[uniquemand]

Don't question the concensus trance, Pepin. The first rule of fight club is that we don't talk about fight club.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Qote....you must have M9 w/c'd the lecture--which doesn't stick on false memories.
(Boogie)

Yes, the clay demo took ages but it was well worth it.

LLLL

 

[fnx3]

Oh Wow! OK - when my eldest sister was in her 3rd year of a psychology degree she created/discovered a most awful, awful story of her own sexual assault at a very young age - she described this to my mother who then paid her $60,000 for some real estate ventures that she, my sister, was interested in.

Years later we have NO evidence or whatever as to the reality of said stories & in fact now that both parents are deceased we are left only with repressed memory "hearsay" - a very cold, thin yet powerful reality indeed.

 

[AnonKat]

The Power of Suggestion: How to Implant False Memories

The Power of Suggestion: How to Implant False Memories

http://sciencestage.com/v/32620/the-power-of-suggestion:-how-to-implant-false-memories.html

 

[programmer_guy]

The Power of Suggestion: How to Implant False Memories

http://sciencestage.com/v/32620/the-power-of-suggestion:-how-to-implant-false-memories.html

Thank you. I had seen that one before.

Here is a better recording of that talk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il0u2s_WGXA

And another one on that same subject
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQr_IJvYzbA

 

[programmer_guy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recollection

False Memories

False memories result from persistent beliefs, suggestions via authority figures, or statements of false information. Repeated exposure to these stimuli influence the reorganization of a person's memory, affecting its details, or implanting vivid false accounts of an event. This is usually accounted for by source-monitoring error, where a person can recall specific facts, but cannot correctly identify the source of that knowledge because of apparent loss of the association between the episodic (specific experience, or source) and semantic (concept-based, or gist) accounts of the stored knowledge. An example of this is cryptomnesia, or inadvertent plagiarism, where a one duplicated a work that they have previously encountered believing it to be their original idea. False memories can also be accounted for by the generation effect, which is an observable phenomena where repeated exposure to a belief, suggestion, or false information is better remembered with each subsequent generation. This can be seen with the misinformation effect, where an eye-witness account of an event can be influenced by a bystander account of the same event, or by suggestion via an authority figure. It is also believed to influence the recovery of repressed shocking or abusive memories in patients under hypnosis, where the recovered memory, although possibly a vivid account, could be entirely false, or have specific details influenced as the result of persistent suggestion by the therapist.

 

[programmer_guy]

Memories: Constructed, Confused, and Confabulated

http://www.theness.com/memories-constructed-confused-and-confabulated/

Memories are malleable, they can be changed, fused, created, altered, and lost. They are susceptible to other people’s suggestions and leading questions. Memory researcher Daniel Schacter writes: “memories for individual events resemble jigsaw puzzles that are assembled from many pieces,” it is normal for people to “knit together the relevant fragments and feelings into a coherent narrative or story.” (Schacter, 1996)