FDA To Take Another Look at Scientology's E-Meter

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Luckily, a session is not a court of law.

The goal is not to convict a person based on the validity of their testimony in session. Instead, the goal is to find areas of distress that the person is interested in discussing, and then help them alleviate connected symptoms of stress, trace them back to an origin, where possible, and eliminate the response and conditioning that can lead to future stress.

I don't object to this sort of use outside of a coercive environment (like that created by Scientology).

Yes if Scn had kept things honest then they wouldn't be in the hole they are today but of course they would have never made all the money either. It's the lies that are the problem not whatever truth there may be and that's why we're even having this discussion at all.
 
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I think they should start using stethescopes to find areas of stress and xray to find body thetins that cannot get themselves exterior. What else? aarrmmmmm...........lasers? for the BT's? I suppose the blood pressure thingy would be a good substitute for holding two cans. You could do knitting on your way up the bridge. Since Mr Hubbard has enlightened us about the mass that is gained and lost in our traumas and how measurable it is, what the examiner should use is not that controversial soup can thing, but scales. BTW those OT 8s must be fairly thin dudes with all that mass they have lost. I wonder if ibruprofen would get the BTs out..they do sound a bit like an allergy. No, not analogy...allergy.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
It does not show what a person is thinking. It doesn't register thought at all. That is a complete lie. It does register changes in skin resistance. Accepted theory in academic-land, where it's discussed at all, is that this is tied to the limbic system, particularly the amygdala, and its mediation of fear and anger (fight/flight).

I'm glad to hear that there is no such thing as red-tagged sessions because there wasn't an F/N, and that the examiner is not at all interested in what the needle phenomena are when the PC shows up after session.

The B/S about the PC's data being senior to the meter read? Maybe this is honored by some independents, but in the Church, this is total PR. Auditing is done by meter reads. PC "data" is considered straight out of the reactive mind. It should be acknowledged, and then the meter tells you what to do next.

There are plenty of PR references to say that the PC's data is senior. The reality is that the case is programmed by meter reads, sessions are run by meter reads, mid-ruds are run based on needle characteristics, etc.



I didn't say it did say what a person was thinking.

Here is what I posted:

It's a tool, a device that can show just a little bit, what the person's thinking.
 

SQRLSy One

New Member
:melodramatic:
Hi, I’m worried about religious freedoms here. It sure seems that the Church ofScientology has disobeyed the court orders of circa 1963, and has NOTprominently posted labels about the non-medical nature of the e-meter on theTOP of the unit, but has cheated, by hiding said label on the BOTTOM. So perhaps a very decent and balanced legalpunishment here would be to simply take away the religious (church) tax exemptions of Scientologists, since they cannot be bothered to obey the courtsand the laws of the land. However, confiscating their property (the e-meters) is simply going WAY too far. If the Government Almighty (the FDA in thiscase) is allowed to confiscate said property, what other religious-natured properties will they then proceed to confiscate also? The wine / Blood of Christ in Christian ceremonies? The bread / Flesh of Christ? After all, alcohol and food have medicinal uses; alcohol has well-documented health benefits. Food (an example being bread), too, isclearly “medically necessary”. Hey,Christian Church… I see you serving wine and bread, even though you call it something else… Do y’all have PRESCRIPTIONS for passing thatsort of thing out? Yes, I bet you think I am being an extremist and setting up “straw men” in my arguments… But please read on….

Specifically,I would mention to you the religious beliefs of the Scienfoologists, which area burgeoning new movement as is documented at www.ChurchofSQRLS.com . As is documented there, the FDA (PraisesBe! Scienfoologists WORSHIP Government Almighty, and the FDA, you see) requires you to get a PRESCRIPTION for a “lung flute”, which uses sound waves to knock mucus loose from your lungs andthroat. Kinda like “coughing”, see, that may require a prescription soon also… And the FDA and Government Almighty, in it’s Wisdom (Praises Be!), alsorequires a prescription for an “earpopper”, which is the equivalent of pinching your nose and blowing on it, to equalize the air pressure on your eardrums (a dangerous “medical procedure”, PLEASE do not try this at home, without 24 years of schooling as a degreed, credentialed, and board-certified expertologist ofDoctorology!). So we Scienfoologists are NOT so foolish, after all, when we warn you about “prescriptions required” for Christ’s Flesh and Blood, now, after all, ARE we? “Religious freedom” is our route to plain andsimple freedom! To understand my perspective as a Devout Scienfoologist, please see www.ChurchofSQRLS.com. (In summary, if they take the freedoms of the Scientologists, next it’s going to be the Scienfoologists, and then it’s going to be ALL of us!).

Best Regards, -SQRLSy One
 

shadow

Patron with Honors
If you make medical claims to diagnose, treat or cure disease, you get FDA scrutiny and a warning. If you do not correct your behaviour, and continue to make false medical claims, there are other consequences (including having your toys taken away from you). The agency did not require removing the medical claims from the manual or from dianetics, but had the warning label added to make sure it is clear that the use is strictly spiritual (not to cure disease).

When christian churches start touting medicinal benefits of wine as the reason for the sacrament, rather than the spiritual aspects of the ceremony, hopefully the FDA will send them warning letters.

Over the history of the US federal government, many of the protections enacted were implemented only after incidents where people were harmed. Try googling "elixir sulfanilamide", or for a more current example look at the 2010 Food Safety Modernization Act that was enacted after increasing incidents of food contamination with the associated illness and deaths.


As much as we would like to think that a free market is a self regulating market, as long as there is profit in false claims, there will be false claims which can cause harm. This harm may be direct physical harm, financial harm or by distracting the person from legitimate treatment.
 
I think people do "get it". They are unnecessary for "case gain" to occur, and they are used as a prop to generate authority or "altitude" for the auditor. They are used as diagnostic instruments.

They may be of some value, but they are being used exactly in a manner that they were expressly forbidden to be used by the FDA. They could be (and are) studied as useful in some non-mainstream psychotherapies, but within the Church, as designed by Hubbard, they are used as part of his confidence scam to milk money from people, and to give the appearance of "sciencyness" to the subject.

UM you should know better.


no, no, no, no


the e-meter is NOT used for diagnosis. it is not used for medical fraud (at least it certainly wasn't when i was active. i would not be surprised if some regs at some times go over a line most reges flirt with. there are people who will defraud themselves if you set them up for it and i'll bet there's many former reges who would cop to that) it actually works pretty well. except for the D&L bunkum.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Body Movement or LFBD?

Okay hold on a second here.

The million dollar question...

Let's see who can debate this or prove the answer...

When a person is on the e-meter and he/she farts...

Is that a body movement or a read?

Just wondering what you think and/or observed.

(heh heh I jsut envisioned someone here setting up their emeter next to them at the PC and waiting for an incidence of flatulence to occur and ready to grab the cans when they feel it coming on... or out rather)

Rd00
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Re: Body Movement or LFBD?

Okay hold on a second here.

The million dollar question...

Let's see who can debate this or prove the answer...

When a person is on the e-meter and he/she farts...

Is that a body movement or a read?

Just wondering what you think and/or observed.

(heh heh I jsut envisioned someone here setting up their emeter next to them at the PC and waiting for an incidence of flatulence to occur and ready to grab the cans when they feel it coming on... or out rather)

Rd00

Just more hubbard hot air?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Body Movement or LFBD?

Is that a body movement or a read?

This is more of Hubbard's bullshit, that one should disregard TA motion that occurs simultaneously with body movement. I think that the most discharging of "mental mass" occurs at the same time as laughing, yawning, sighing, farting etc. So what does Hubbard say? Discount it! Stupid.

DISCLAIMER: This is not my recommendation to use an e-meter. :)

Paul
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
If an emeter is not used in a session, then what you have is 2 ppl in comm with one another.
And that's OK.
But who or what is going to pay upwards of $1000. an hour for another to listen to them talk?

challenge
 
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