Feeling like an outsider ...

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was talking to a friend who is on the forum (I dont pass on who without permission) and I mentioned that at times, I feel like an outsider on ESMB.

It's a queer feeling.

I don't have the tremendous zeal that many seem to have. There are those that will get very emotional about their viewpoint. Hmm.. not really my thing.

There are those that feel unfairly attacked or fair gamed by the church. Im not one of those.

There are those that have been declared because they left quick because it was too much crap. I wasn't declared.

There are those that have had to disconnect because they left. I never had to.

There are those that feel like they were conned and never received any promised gains. I got a lot out of it.

There are those that feel that everything they learned was a crock. Actually, I liked almost everything I learned.

For some, Scn was always a total living hell. I had fun in many of the things that I did. It wasnt always fun, but you live in the moment.

Many lost fortunes to the church. I never really did. (Well except a few years of my life - but it was something to do.)

I know that I have been enthusiastic at times, and I have never been.. "unenthusiastic" about it, but I don't have as much reality on the upsets. I don't really get upset about things. It happened, its over.

I know the major thing which I have been inculcated with is this sense of being an outsider - but that started when I was a kid. No friends in school. (Okay, I had 1 in Kindegarten, 2 in first grade - got double promoted and never had a close friend in school again), a mother who didnt like contact with family (maybe she disconnected - I never thought of that), no social life as a teenager (working until I joined Scientology at 15 - and I joined staff).

Yeah - this is kinda victemy, I know.

But am I the only one who ever feels this way? (and NO, Zinj, I aint doing a poll.)
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah - IM a mod at ESK. But don't feel as connected as I used to there as well. Part of it is pressing current problems - economy sucks. But that's not all of it.

Part of it is being distracted with having no 2D or current prospects. And I am at work too much trying to keep it going to spend much time socializing. (Except playing online games. I DO do that. And chatting with people online. But IRL needs work.)

Anyway .. a thought I had after I did the above post.
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
OH. And a couple of botched comm cycles with other members on ESMB didnt help.

Who they are, they may know. But once again, I dont pass on names without permission.

The myspace thing too .. hmmm .. lottsa stuff I started thinking about after I wrote the above.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah - IM a mod at ESK. But don't feel as connected as I used to there as well. Part of it is pressing current problems - economy sucks. But that's not all of it.

Part of it is being distracted with having no 2D or current prospects. And I am at work too much trying to keep it going to spend much time socializing. (Except playing online games. I DO do that. And chatting with people online. But IRL needs work.)

Anyway .. a thought I had after I did the above post.

Keep going Grundy.
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
If you do not have any upsets with Scientology then I would say that is a good thing. One shouldn't go looking for upsets. They're either there or they're not. You seem to be in a good place with regards to your experience in the Co$. No need to justify or apologise for it.

I do have upsets with the Co$. I know that eventually if I wish to grow spiritually I need to confront these, and move on from them. I know this. I'm not there yet, although I am working on it.

Sometimes, and I am speaking from experience here, one can so identify with their upsets that it becomes very difficult to let go of them. This is not healthy, IMO. But upsets, in and of themselves are neither healthy nor are they unhealthy. It's whether you overcome them, or vice versa that would be more important.

For me it is this subject (Scientology experience) that needs the most work. Upsets are rare in other areas of my life, so I can relate to your post in that regard.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
hey Grundy,
I have had this feeling like an outsider for sure. I always had this queer feeling of not quite belonging.

It has even happened to me since joining up on ESMB. I just felt I had nothing in common with anyone worth mentioning. It's not that I am disagreeable with others views. I can be at a family wedding surrounded by people that love me and just feel like an outsider. Just sometimes I get this queer feeling.

I don't have any answers, I just wait until it passes because it always does for me. I've got used to the cyclic nature of it.

The fact that you don't have any major points of upset with scientology is worth celebrating. I'm rather envious of your position. :)
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Grundy, we are all different. That's what is so good when it comes to exchanging opinions.

I have found a few who sort of remember me, made some new friends and seen parts of my experience echo'd by others. But how many 2nd generation Scnists are here who took my path? Most lasted longer in the SO than I did! How many know what it's like to know that the FOURTH generation (grandchildren) are never going to know me unless it all falls apart? Or understand what it's like to have a Scio influenced total family most of your life, whether you are onlines or not? Yes, a few, but not many.

I often feel like an outsider too. Then again, it's nothing new. I figured the best thing was to spend time getting to know myself in a whole new way, which I have done and continue to do.

Then if there is something posted that resonates, I join in again. :)
 

Feral

Rogue male
I often feel like that too Grundy, in an awkward school boy kind of way. On esmb I am coming to terms with an odd fact; see, in the church I had STATUS, I was a long way up the bridge, trained and a fairly large contributor, out here it just makes me look more gullible and dumber than your average poster. Out here it is Alanzo who has the status. I never knew that I had status, I didn't actually seek it out. I just got used to a kind of hush when I spoke....weird. Like an AMWAY double diamond, out of the group it means nothing.

I was a bit of an out cast as a kid too, some advice if it happens again; tie a bit of steak around your neck, that way the dog will play with you. It worked for me!!!
 
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Pixie

Crusader
I was talking to a friend who is on the forum (I dont pass on who without permission) and I mentioned that at times, I feel like an outsider on ESMB.

It's a queer feeling.

I don't have the tremendous zeal that many seem to have. There are those that will get very emotional about their viewpoint. Hmm.. not really my thing.

There are those that feel unfairly attacked or fair gamed by the church. Im not one of those.

There are those that have been declared because they left quick because it was too much crap. I wasn't declared.

There are those that have had to disconnect because they left. I never had to.

There are those that feel like they were conned and never received any promised gains. I got a lot out of it.

There are those that feel that everything they learned was a crock. Actually, I liked almost everything I learned.

For some, Scn was always a total living hell. I had fun in many of the things that I did. It wasnt always fun, but you live in the moment.

Many lost fortunes to the church. I never really did. (Well except a few years of my life - but it was something to do.)

I know that I have been enthusiastic at times, and I have never been.. "unenthusiastic" about it, but I don't have as much reality on the upsets. I don't really get upset about things. It happened, its over.

I know the major thing which I have been inculcated with is this sense of being an outsider - but that started when I was a kid. No friends in school. (Okay, I had 1 in Kindegarten, 2 in first grade - got double promoted and never had a close friend in school again), a mother who didnt like contact with family (maybe she disconnected - I never thought of that), no social life as a teenager (working until I joined Scientology at 15 - and I joined staff).

Yeah - this is kinda victemy, I know.

But am I the only one who ever feels this way? (and NO, Zinj, I aint doing a poll.)

Hey Grundy! I think you contribute an amazing amount of insights on this board! I think that feeling like an 'outsider' is a very common human feeling that most people get either from time to time or suffer most of their lives. I spent a couple of years as a tarot card reader both face to face and on the phone, this does give an amazing insight into what people are really thinking and honestly, it's quite common.

I still feel like that here, and have felt like that most of my life too. I had no brothers or sisters, had a mother who reminded me everyday I wasn't wanted, was brought up by my grandmother and uncle, and particularly now after being in the cult, I feel like a huge outsider, but I had to make myself heard, I had to or I'd have gone down the pan, I just kept posting, kept cringing, and kept posting.

I still cringe but if I don't make myself I'll always feel like that. Thanks to Emma, we ALL have a right to be here and we all have opinions, sure we had fun times too, no one is disputing that, and you didn't have a lot of what some of us had, but so what? I've learned a lot from you Grundy, you are very articulate, and have a very balanced view about things and for me, and I have no doubt most others', if you weren't here you would be sorely missed.

Honestly, I just feel it's a human trait that creeps in for some reason, that feeling of 'aloness' and of 'not fitting in' like you say, but personally, I for one have to just keep on making myself 'fit in', although I strive to me totally me, I don't and won't change my viewpoints on some things just to 'fit in' or to get people to 'like' me. All of our contributions to this forum are important, and we all have many things to learn from each other. Please don't feel like that Grundy, keep posting, I think you're great! :yes:
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
- snip -

and particularly now after being in the cult, I feel like a huge outsider, but I had to make myself heard, I had to or I'd have gone down the pan, I just kept posting, kept cringing, and kept posting.

- snip -

You have succeeded wonderfully at this, Pixie :p

Seriously though, good for you. Keep posting, you're fun to have around.
:thumbsup:
 

Zander

Patron with Honors
I was talking to a friend who is on the forum (I dont pass on who without permission) and I mentioned that at times, I feel like an outsider on ESMB.

It's a queer feeling.

I don't have the tremendous zeal that many seem to have. There are those that will get very emotional about their viewpoint. Hmm.. not really my thing.

There are those that feel unfairly attacked or fair gamed by the church. Im not one of those.

There are those that have been declared because they left quick because it was too much crap. I wasn't declared.

There are those that have had to disconnect because they left. I never had to.

There are those that feel like they were conned and never received any promised gains. I got a lot out of it.

There are those that feel that everything they learned was a crock. Actually, I liked almost everything I learned.

For some, Scn was always a total living hell. I had fun in many of the things that I did. It wasnt always fun, but you live in the moment.

Many lost fortunes to the church. I never really did. (Well except a few years of my life - but it was something to do.)

I know that I have been enthusiastic at times, and I have never been.. "unenthusiastic" about it, but I don't have as much reality on the upsets. I don't really get upset about things. It happened, its over.

I know the major thing which I have been inculcated with is this sense of being an outsider - but that started when I was a kid. No friends in school. (Okay, I had 1 in Kindegarten, 2 in first grade - got double promoted and never had a close friend in school again), a mother who didnt like contact with family (maybe she disconnected - I never thought of that), no social life as a teenager (working until I joined Scientology at 15 - and I joined staff).

Yeah - this is kinda victemy, I know.

But am I the only one who ever feels this way? (and NO, Zinj, I aint doing a poll.)

hi Grundy, I know exactly how you are feeling there. We all do have different experiences witht he scn. Those who have been on staff and in the SO will have had a completely different experience compared to those who were public. Some will be more upset, angry, resentful than others, rightfully so.

What you have stated reminds me that we as a group should not expect any sort of conformity between ourselves and that really it would be a mistake to have those expectations of others here. We should all be able to have our own feelings, ideas and opinions (as long as they are not forced on others).

Personally I have always felt a bit of an outsider and in a way wanted to be, like not wanting to be the same as others. In scn this desire is reinforced into a sort of elitism, which is part of what keeps you in. But in the end you are required to conform with the scn group and that is not comfortable at all :omg:

Zander
 

Div6

Crusader
PROTIP: Don't use "recovery boards" for 2d trolling. This applies to ANY type of recovery board be it AA, recovering Catholics, whatever.

Reason: the people there are recovering from mis-placed trust in others. You don't want to "substitute" in...the end of recovery is a self-determined person operating under their own steam and their own "control center". If you short-circuit that cycle there will be consequences. And not necessarily pleasant ones.

Ride a bike, get a hobby (photog, rock climbing, something that gets you from out in front of a computer screen...) meet new people. Make an effort to reach some one.....It took me the longest time to realize that I was increasing the distance between myself, and the ones I loved due to a low sense of self-worth and lack of confidence. I hid it quite well, and was more than willing to "blame" others.
 

Good twin

Floater
Wow. Grundy, you are always there for others. You are always the sane one. The rational. Never the problem or victim. Always taking responsibility. You always excel.
I have an opinion for what it's worth.
You need to allow your self to mess up. You need to allow yourself to be imperfect.
I know you miss your group. I know you miss your status. I know you miss your post. It's okay to feel the loss. It's NORMAL to feel upset. Please allow yourself to feel upset. We are here for you. Just like you are always here for others.
:arose:
 

Pixie

Crusader
PROTIP: Don't use "recovery boards" for 2d trolling. This applies to ANY type of recovery board be it AA, recovering Catholics, whatever.

Reason: the people there are recovering from mis-placed trust in others. You don't want to "substitute" in...the end of recovery is a self-determined person operating under their own steam and their own "control center". If you short-circuit that cycle there will be consequences. And not necessarily pleasant ones.

Ride a bike, get a hobby (photog, rock climbing, something that gets you from out in front of a computer screen...) meet new people. Make an effort to reach some one.....It took me the longest time to realize that I was increasing the distance between myself, and the ones I loved due to a low sense of self-worth and lack of confidence. I hid it quite well, and was more than willing to "blame" others.

Well said Div6, and what you say about misplaced trust in others is so true, learning to trust people again after the cult is very hard, but one can only take people at face value and trust them until they proove otherwise.

Great post, very honest. :thumbsup:
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
It is wonderful that you didn't suffer too much in Scientology, Grundy! :thumbsup:

The feeling of aloneness or separation is a natural one, but can be painful sometimes. Conversely hardly having time for yourself because of heavy connection with others can be painful too!

Balance and allowing what is can be helpful.

Notice how alone you feel and just let that be for a few moments. Then notice how connected you are to others, no matter how little that appears to be, just recognise some connections and let them be for a few moments.

If you alternate these backwards and forwards you may notice some relief. Then just let the problem go, let the universe take care of your feelings about connection and separation.

The universe will balance things so long as you let it and don't try to force either one side or the other! :happydance:
 

Div6

Crusader
Well said Div6, and what you say about misplaced trust in others is so true, learning to trust people again after the cult is very hard, but one can only take people at face value and trust them until they proove otherwise.

Great post, very honest. :thumbsup:

Thanks Pixie.
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks all. I wasn't looking for encouragement, so much as I wanted to know if anyone else had similar feelings.

But I DO appreciate the kind words.

Oh, Div 6. While I was making a few comments, I have never seriously been 2D trolling. I know sometimes I have come off that way, but actually y'all live to far away for me to be serious. My big thing about that is trying to get a few chuckles.

That couple of botched comm cycles I mentioned I think they might have thought that. I do tend to withdraw heavily when such things happen.

I lost my best friend that way. One argument, one "I'm done", and we stopped talking - TOTALLY. Would turn and walk the other way when they were in a room.

6 months later, they came and talked to me directly, we became friends again, but never really close. The person can call me for emergencies day and night (and has) but we don't talk more than one comm cycle every few months.

But this is a general malaise. As I said - I know a lot of it is PTPs.

Anyway ... Ill get over it, eventually.
 

Div6

Crusader
Thanks all. I wasn't looking for encouragement, so much as I wanted to know if anyone else had similar feelings.

But I DO appreciate the kind words.

Oh, Div 6. While I was making a few comments, I have never seriously been 2D trolling. I know sometimes I have come off that way, but actually y'all live to far away for me to be serious. My big thing about that is trying to get a few chuckles.

That couple of botched comm cycles I mentioned I think they might have thought that. I do tend to withdraw heavily when such things happen.

I lost my best friend that way. One argument, one "I'm done", and we stopped talking - TOTALLY. Would turn and walk the other way when they were in a room.

6 months later, they came and talked to me directly, we became friends again, but never really close. The person can call me for emergencies day and night (and has) but we don't talk more than one comm cycle every few months.

But this is a general malaise. As I said - I know a lot of it is PTPs.

Anyway ... Ill get over it, eventually.

I know that Grundy, but like you described, sometimes you never know how something is going to get "duplicated" in the other universe. So I am just trying to say, that in these here parts, discretion is the better part of valour.


But hey, we all have to deal with individuation and aloneness. It's a weird phenomenon....I live in a city, packed with hundreds of thousands of people, and every day it seems in an exercise in "non-confront". We go out of our way to avoid others.

Go for a walk, get active, do something that allows you to create your feelings....you will get over it.
 

feline

Patron Meritorious
Grundy- don't know if it helps but the feelings you are having are entirely HUMAN feelings that everyone, with or without Scn has. You are telling us that you are human.

As far as finding a 2D, I didn't meet hubby until after the breast cancer. And I swore then that there was no way in the world ANYONE would ever see me nude again. Let's face it, the road to repair was hugely disfiguring. Hubby and I worked together and were also both smokers. So we had opportunities to talk about things that WEREN'T work related. There came a point that I asked him out. Our first date, our second date- they wouldn't have happened if I wasn't determined. Since we both had a rule about not dating people we worked with, I quit and went to another company. In short I went to a lot of trouble to put myself in a position that I swore I would never be in again.

I was single for 10 years and didn't date much. I got over it. When I met hubby, I understood that all of that time had a reason. I don't know that we would have clicked so completely if we had met while I was in my 30s. I was a different person then. I needed to have that 10 years of growing and experiences in order to have the values that I bring to my relationship.

I think that the 2D thing will sort its own self out over time. Till then, continue to value yourself and allow us to tell you that we value you. And when the blues hit, use that validation to plow through them. :bighug:
 
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