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Feeling like an outsider ...

feline

Patron Meritorious
Quote:

"Only suffering can teach compassion."

I've used that axiom to explain some of my life experiences -- I feel like some of the things I have gone through were for the sole purpose of giving me the foundation to understand what someone else is going through, and put me in a better position to help.

Patte

Patte- I have always heard that as, "That which does not kill us makes us stronger". I think that is true.

Sometimes life deals a shit hand. And we have no choice but to play the cards we're dealt. But consider this...

I have dealt with cancer in my life. But what that means is that I have a unique opportunity to help people through diagnosis and treatment. I have the perspective of "been there, done that, here's what I learned". I can't give that perspective to someone coming out of the craziness that is Scn. I was never in. I refused, even when it cost my marriage. I just believe that the God of my understanding had a different path for me.

What you have to offer is so much more than I. I can offer my peers here compassion and understanding but my experience was so much different that I can't offer anything more than an opinion and a hug.

I came to this board because I understood that the time that I was married to my ex had left a mark and I wanted to try to understand what that was. And hopefully deal with it. It is in reading you, Twin A, Good Twin, Fluffy, DOF, Alan, Grundy, Nexus, Byte, Pixie, Bea, Reasonable Lady, Emma- I could just list the active people on the board for you. I think I am finally breaking the surface of the fear that held me in that marriage for so long. At least I HOPE that is what the nightmares are about!

But you guys lived it. I lived around it. Still, I know a basic and fundamental truth. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. Scn didn't kill me. Neither did cancer. That must mean I am stronger. And that means I have more that I can do.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
Feline, you ARE helping!

Here's the deal - you say you have been helped by people who experienced something that you didn't. I say I (we) have ALSO been helped by people like you, who experienced something that we didn't. Seems to me it is absolutely the willingness to hear, the attempt to genuinely understand, the fact of allowing the other to feel the way he/she feels, the real compassion that is the valuable stuff here.

I realized that your wanting to find out "what that was" rang an eerie bell for me - kind of a scary, "what just happened" sort of thing that I'm afraid of for the simple reason that I'm not sure what it was. Kind of like wondering when the next time the fist was going to meet my eye!

I am just so amazed and grateful to be in these relationships with all of us here - what a WONDERFUL bunch of people! Just the fact of such open communication here is THE MOST freeing thing! Thank you ALL!

(I gotta change my avatar - I'm not so crabby any more!)

Patte
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
Make it a ... well .. have fun with it! lol

Im glad to see you coming out of it.

It takes time.

I know I dont post as much - but thats mostly because I dont find myself as "stuck" in my Scn years.

Of course - with the org calling . I might start posting more again :angry:

:p
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
BTW, I've always been an outsider. Being a former scientologist only gives me JUSTIFICATION for it. It's not the reason.

That's one of the reasons I joined the Church, despite the warnings I did receive from others. I never listened well to advice, and still don't. When I'm curious I investigate for myself, unless there is ample reason to consider it of such imminent or serious danger that academic understanding would be better. At the time that I was looking into scn, www did not exist, and my library had exactly ONE book on the subject, DMSMH, which I already owned. Very little media attention on the subject at that time. I was completely unaware of it, and so when my curiosity was peaked, I looked in, joined staff to get the complete experience (since I was 18 turning 19, I didn't have any serious commitments), and left when I discovered it wasn't what I wanted it to be (though it was CLOSE in some aspects).

I remain an outsider, and considering the complacency, ignorance and timidity of the general run (substitute "wog" if you wish), I hope to remain an outsider until the mean ability, responsibility and communication level rises significantly.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh shoot!

Reading that you intend to send the package back, I just connected the dots! I've been "out" since 1982, and frequently and impolitely reminded all of the Orgs that I'm an SP, leave me alone. At last they apparently got the message - hadn't heard anything for years. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting answering machine messages, wanting me to call them back because they are checking their mailing list.

It now dawns on me that they want to send me a Basics package, right? Glad I didn't respond, but I was thinking how fun it would be to tell them how glad I am they called because I want to talk about a few things like all the deaths, and the Int prisoners, and children locked in chain lockers. Naw, wouldn't be worth starting up the whole mailings and phone calls mess again. Still,....



Patte
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
It seems that feeling like an outsider is quite common here. Perhaps that why we are ‘Ex-Scientologists’? :coolwink: We couldn’t fit in? Or, more likely, after believing that we were ‘special’ (superior?) by being Scientologists, some find it difficult to re-integrate themselves back into the real world.

I have often felt like an outsider as well. I’ve never really been good at mingling at parties or other social gatherings. It always takes me a long time to make friends and I feel uncomfortable with strangers. But, practice helps.

When I was in the SO, being part of “the most dedicated and ethical group on the planet”, :eyeroll: I never felt like I really belonged. I remember one dark evening in the chapel at St Hill, we had some SO only event and there was an Elron tape playing. At the end, everyone saluted like they had been charged with some terrible responsibility. Here we were, a rag-tag group in the middle of nowhere, in the depths of winter, at almost midnight, acting like we were actually going to save the universe. I looked around and thought “What am I doing here?” I knew that I wasn’t a part of that.

When I was public, doing courses and trying to get up the Bridge, it felt like I lived in 2 worlds. The Scientology one and the ‘real’ one. At times, I felt like I didn’t belong in either. It was certainly very difficult to reconcile the two – actually, I don’t think I ever did.

I was fortunate in having some very good jobs, with great colleagues. This helped a lot. We used to have some great debates and arguments. The ones where you feel intellectually stimulated. We had some great characters who would say the most provocative things, sometimes just to see what reaction they could get. And some people would always fall for it (does that sound familiar?). I think that I learnt fairly quickly not to get sucked in too far. Sometimes you just have to laugh and not take what people say too seriously. I mean, it’s not like they are actually breaking your bones with sticks and stones?

I could probably count all the intellectually stimulating conversations with Scientology staff on the fingers of one hand. There are some great people, but they can be so boring! Not their fault I guess, they probably never get to see or do anything interesting anymore.

In the last couple of years, I have noticed feelings of ‘disengagement’, ‘disconnectedness’ – call it what you will. I have trouble getting really enthusiastic about anything anymore. Maybe this is because the one thing that I really believed in, the thing that I had pinned all my hopes and dreams on, was gradually slipping from my grasp. Now, it is gone. Totally.

I suppose I have to find a new purpose now. Yes, I think that will help.

So Grundy, you are not alone in your feelings, I wouldn’t worry. I agree with Div6, getting out and meeting people is a good idea. Start a hobby, join a club, but mingle. With people. With life.

Oh, and laughing helps. :lol:

Axiom142
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
It seems that feeling like an outsider is quite common here. Perhaps that why we are ‘Ex-Scientologists’? :coolwink: We couldn’t fit in? Or, more likely, after believing that we were ‘special’ (superior?) by being Scientologists, some find it difficult to re-integrate themselves back into the real world.

I have often felt like an outsider as well. I’ve never really been good at mingling at parties or other social gatherings. It always takes me a long time to make friends and I feel uncomfortable with strangers. But, practice helps.

When I was in the SO, being part of “the most dedicated and ethical group on the planet”, :eyeroll: I never felt like I really belonged. I remember one dark evening in the chapel at St Hill, we had some SO only event and there was an Elron tape playing. At the end, everyone saluted like they had been charged with some terrible responsibility. Here we were, a rag-tag group in the middle of nowhere, in the depths of winter, at almost midnight, acting like we were actually going to save the universe. I looked around and thought “What am I doing here?” I knew that I wasn’t a part of that.

When I was public, doing courses and trying to get up the Bridge, it felt like I lived in 2 worlds. The Scientology one and the ‘real’ one. At times, I felt like I didn’t belong in either. It was certainly very difficult to reconcile the two – actually, I don’t think I ever did.

I was fortunate in having some very good jobs, with great colleagues. This helped a lot. We used to have some great debates and arguments. The ones where you feel intellectually stimulated. We had some great characters who would say the most provocative things, sometimes just to see what reaction they could get. And some people would always fall for it (does that sound familiar?). I think that I learnt fairly quickly not to get sucked in too far. Sometimes you just have to laugh and not take what people say too seriously. I mean, it’s not like they are actually breaking your bones with sticks and stones?

I could probably count all the intellectually stimulating conversations with Scientology staff on the fingers of one hand. There are some great people, but they can be so boring! Not their fault I guess, they probably never get to see or do anything interesting anymore.

In the last couple of years, I have noticed feelings of ‘disengagement’, ‘disconnectedness’ – call it what you will. I have trouble getting really enthusiastic about anything anymore. Maybe this is because the one thing that I really believed in, the thing that I had pinned all my hopes and dreams on, was gradually slipping from my grasp. Now, it is gone. Totally.

I suppose I have to find a new purpose now. Yes, I think that will help.

So Grundy, you are not alone in your feelings, I wouldn’t worry. I agree with Div6, getting out and meeting people is a good idea. Start a hobby, join a club, but mingle. With people. With life.

Oh, and laughing helps. :lol:

Axiom142

Great post Axiom 142! :)

In particular I relate to this:

I could probably count all the intellectually stimulating conversations with Scientology staff on the fingers of one hand. There are some great people, but they can be so boring! Not their fault I guess, they probably never get to see or do anything interesting anymore.

I loved the people I knew in scientology but like you one hand would do for counting the numbers of times I walked away really on fire with stimulation. Which is actually quite sad when you think about it. The fact is many, if not most, of these people in scientology are really smart but they are so shut down due to being heavily indoctrinated and focussed on "clearing the planet". I remember feeling like talking about non-scientology stuff was a waste of time, valuable time I could be talking about how to save the world.

From this I learn that heavy mind-control makes people very dull. :)
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Reading that you intend to send the package back, I just connected the dots! I've been "out" since 1982, and frequently and impolitely reminded all of the Orgs that I'm an SP, leave me alone. At last they apparently got the message - hadn't heard anything for years. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting answering machine messages, wanting me to call them back because they are checking their mailing list.

It now dawns on me that they want to send me a Basics package, right? Glad I didn't respond, but I was thinking how fun it would be to tell them how glad I am they called because I want to talk about a few things like all the deaths, and the Int prisoners, and children locked in chain lockers. Naw, wouldn't be worth starting up the whole mailings and phone calls mess again. Still,....



Patte

Just call them back and tell them you'd be glad to receive the books, because you've always wanted to PDF them all and put them up on a website. Sadly, you have no money, and you don't want to apply for credit, so would they please just send them to you for free?
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
In the last couple of years, I have noticed feelings of ‘disengagement’, ‘disconnectedness’ – call it what you will. I have trouble getting really enthusiastic about anything anymore. Maybe this is because the one thing that I really believed in, the thing that I had pinned all my hopes and dreams on, was gradually slipping from my grasp. Now, it is gone. Totally.

I suppose I have to find a new purpose now. Yes, I think that will help.

Axiom142

The best thing is to take the time to get to know yourself really well, warts and all. Be open to what comes your way and follow your passions. It took a while for me to find those elusive passions, as they had been so thoroughly squished, but they are there! And when rekindled, they can spring to life and make it worth getting up in the morning again. :)
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ya know, the biggest thing which makes me feel like an outsider is when certain comms which I make get ignored.

I noticed that after a certain thread or two that got ignored, I didnt post for a while.

I know, I know. I need to not take it personally. Its just very hard.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ya know, the biggest thing which makes me feel like an outsider is when certain comms which I make get ignored.

I noticed that after a certain thread or two that got ignored, I didnt post for a while.

I know, I know. I need to not take it personally. Its just very hard.

Yeah, I know. Things which hit buttons get an immediate response, but a good post that people agree with sort of gets a nod and no reply.

What we possibly need here is a rep system whereby people can show their approval of posts they like by giving them rep points. I post on other boards which have this facility.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ya know, the biggest thing which makes me feel like an outsider is when certain comms which I make get ignored.

I noticed that after a certain thread or two that got ignored, I didnt post for a while.

I know, I know. I need to not take it personally. Its just very hard.

I love your honesty. So cool. I have felt "ignored" myself! I feel so silly for saying that but because you are so wonderfully honest I feel I can say it. Thank you Grundy - your openness rocks! :)
 

Pixie

Crusader
Ya know, the biggest thing which makes me feel like an outsider is when certain comms which I make get ignored.

I noticed that after a certain thread or two that got ignored, I didnt post for a while.

I know, I know. I need to not take it personally. Its just very hard.

I understand this completely, and at the beginning it was painful in the extreme for me, however, it wasn't until I got to the stage, and had the realization, that this is about wanting and needing anothers energy and this also in my view sits along side what others 'think of me' and when I let that go and got to the stage that I couldn't care less and allowed other's their total perrogatvie to either answer or not as the case may be, that feeling of being 'ignored' simply stopped and people replied more.

If I post a post for a reaction, or for feedback, I'm not going to get it, but if I post purely to contribute or even to make myself laugh, there appears to be a lot of feedback. This is just something I've noticed for myself since posting for the first time ever on a forum that if I 'need' a response I won't get one. :D If I post for the sake of posting cos it's something I believe or feel strongly about or just to make myself laugh or think it may help someone lurking or reading, then I get lots of responses. If I write something to try to 'impress', forget it, I get ignored. I believe it's an energy thing.

If one can let go of the idea of caring whether someone gives them feedback or not and just stop thinking that they need attention then you find that at the end of the day it just doesn't matter, it's only whe you convince yourself that it really matters do other's perhaps pick this up and not have the inkling to reply.

I could be totaly wrong here, however, this is only my experience. :yes:
 
I never had any huge upset or anything that made me leave. And I do still think certain aspects of Scn have real merit. Family situations in Scn is a matter of luck which unfortunately some of us on here have to deal with. But then, I kind of feel like posters on here run the gamut in that regard. What was it that did get you riled up enough to make you want to leave? There must be some pretty substantial disagreements if you've left and have 1100 posts here?
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ya know, the biggest thing which makes me feel like an outsider is when certain comms which I make get ignored.

I noticed that after a certain thread or two that got ignored, I didnt post for a while.

I know, I know. I need to not take it personally. Its just very hard.


I know what you mean Grundy, it is reassuring to get an ‘ack’ if you communicate something. Human nature I guess.

But, I believe that sometimes the most profound statements are so far above most people’s reality level (sorry for the Scieno-babble, but I couldn’t think how to say it otherwise) that it doesn’t mean anything. At least not to start with. But, it may sit there like a seed waiting for the right conditions to germinate.

Then, weeks, months or even years later, it starts to grow. And turns into a pumpkin.

Not sure that this is the right analogy, but I hope you get the picture. Sometimes ideas take a while to sink in.

When I say something and it doesn’t get a response, I like to console myself with the thought that I am intellectually superior to everyone else (apart from Vinaire of course, cos he is clever) and that they are unable to appreciate my brilliant insights. Or, it could just be that I am being delusional again.

Of course, it’s always a boost to my ego when someone says “Great post! So eloquently and artistically presented - can I have your babies?”.

But I try not to expect it. :waiting:

Axiom142
 
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