Flag - Outer Org Trainees

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
. . .
About eight years ago, I had coffee with an OOT (outer org trainee) who had gone to Flag to train up to be the org's Senior CS. He had just gotten back a few months earlier.

He went from not trained, the ground up to Class 6 auditor and CS (including internships); Clear Certainty Rundown CS, course supervisor training, TRs course sup, KTL sup/CS, and a few other smaller rundowns. Don’t remember which. But the point is he trained on everything he needed to anchor the technical team at his org as Senior CS. GAT I everything. While he was there, he also co-audited to Grade 3 as I recall.

Well, I asked him how long it took to do all that since I thought it was just an incredible amount of training to do in one gulp . . . one stay at Flag and on full-time training. I figured a year or two . . . or three at the very most.

He told me. Hearing his answer, any lesser mortal would have spit out her coffee but I kept my cool.
He was at Flag for eight (8) years full-time. :omg:
I’m still incredulous about this even as I write, but it’s the god-honest truth. I double checked to make sure I was hearing right. Yes, eight years. :omg:
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
. . .
About eight years ago, I had coffee with an OOT (outer org trainee) who had gone to Flag to train up to be the org's Senior CS. He had just gotten back a few months earlier.

He went from not trained, the ground up to Class 6 auditor and CS (including internships); Clear Certainty Rundown CS, course supervisor training, TRs course sup, KTL sup/CS, and a few other smaller rundowns. Don’t remember which. But the point is he trained on everything he needed to anchor the technical team at his org as Senior CS. GAT I everything. While he was there, he also co-audited to Grade 3 as I recall.

Well, I asked him how long it took to do all that since I thought it was just an incredible amount of training to do in one gulp . . . one stay at Flag and on full-time training. I figured a year or two . . . or three at the very most.

He told me. Hearing his answer, any lesser mortal would have spit out her coffee but I kept my cool.
He was at Flag for eight (8) years full-time. :omg:
I’m still incredulous about this even as I write, but it’s the god-honest truth. I double checked to make sure I was hearing right. Yes, eight years. :omg:

And some of these people are married and have children.
 

Daisy

Patron with Honors
If a good person is forced to behave as a bad guy for too long, it becomes hard to live with himself.

He was just applying the tech. Actually Doug was a good guy. My husband's good friend.
Brilliant mind.
Top of his HS class.

He did realize that he had wasted his life for so many years after getting out. Tried to make a go at it.
 

Daisy

Patron with Honors
. . .
About eight years ago, I had coffee with an OOT (outer org trainee) who had gone to Flag to train up to be the org's Senior CS. He had just gotten back a few months earlier.

He went from not trained, the ground up to Class 6 auditor and CS (including internships); Clear Certainty Rundown CS, course supervisor training, TRs course sup, KTL sup/CS, and a few other smaller rundowns. Don’t remember which. But the point is he trained on everything he needed to anchor the technical team at his org as Senior CS. GAT I everything. While he was there, he also co-audited to Grade 3 as I recall.

Well, I asked him how long it took to do all that since I thought it was just an incredible amount of training to do in one gulp . . . one stay at Flag and on full-time training. I figured a year or two . . . or three at the very most.

He told me. Hearing his answer, any lesser mortal would have spit out her coffee but I kept my cool.
He was at Flag for eight (8) years full-time. :omg:
I’m still incredulous about this even as I write, but it’s the god-honest truth. I double checked to make sure I was hearing right. Yes, eight years. :omg:

Yup, C/S at stevens creek was gone for 6 years and she was married and had kids.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I was NSO staff at AOLA a couple times in the late 70's - I did some auditing in the HGC and some FESing - they had this constant problem - they would fire the NSO auditors, then fall be hind on delivery, run up a backlog, then hire a bunch of NSO auditors to handle the back log then, tell them it was mandatory for them to join the SO. They would all leave... then the org would again fall behind in delivery... and they would hire... over and over.

Mimsey


me too. We were at AO during the same time frame. When they 'fired' us NSO auditors, Ann Snyder said "come on, blow with us ( Sandy Schwartz) onto the 8 course.We can re-tread free". So I did that rather than blow the Org, and shortly thereafter they had me auditing their HGC just as before, but now as a student I didn't get paid for it. Not that I got paid regularly anyway. There were weeks when I didn't receive pay. AOLA still owes me money.
 

Gib

Crusader
. . .
About eight years ago, I had coffee with an OOT (outer org trainee) who had gone to Flag to train up to be the org's Senior CS. He had just gotten back a few months earlier.

He went from not trained, the ground up to Class 6 auditor and CS (including internships); Clear Certainty Rundown CS, course supervisor training, TRs course sup, KTL sup/CS, and a few other smaller rundowns. Don’t remember which. But the point is he trained on everything he needed to anchor the technical team at his org as Senior CS. GAT I everything. While he was there, he also co-audited to Grade 3 as I recall.

Well, I asked him how long it took to do all that since I thought it was just an incredible amount of training to do in one gulp . . . one stay at Flag and on full-time training. I figured a year or two . . . or three at the very most.

He told me. Hearing his answer, any lesser mortal would have spit out her coffee but I kept my cool.
He was at Flag for eight (8) years full-time. :omg:
I’m still incredulous about this even as I write, but it’s the god-honest truth. I double checked to make sure I was hearing right. Yes, eight years. :omg:

yep, I now remember asking a fellow OOT how long he was there, said 6 years I believe. I too mentally dropped my jaw, saying to myself WTF. Sure enough when I finished my TIP program for courses, they started in on me to continue training. No way Jose I was gonna do that, I had had enough of the 13 hour schedule 7 days a week. That's a whole another story getting the fuck out of there while having a everything is great face. :angry:

Here's a story. The course sup, I believe his name was Leif, swedish or german dude, had the OOT's clean and white glove the course room every morning. During the first few months I never did it. Finally one day some fellow OOT asked why I never helped to clean the course room, I said something like because I'm a customer here. Anyways, she made me feel guilty so I decided to show up early b/4 course started and helped clean. :angry::angry::angry:
 

Weagook

Patron
I was an oot into the mid to late 90's. I was a new recruit to my local org and apparently fit the profile for HCO training. The org was hell and being an oot was more hell. We were slaves. I ended up blowing, but several other from my region had been there for years.for my org, I think it was a presige thing and I was just a victim, thinking I was doing something good.
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
Anytime staff were told, "It's a short 2 week cycle" we expected the staff member to return 2 years later.
 
me too. We were at AO during the same time frame. When they 'fired' us NSO auditors, Ann Snyder said "come on, blow with us ( Sandy Schwartz) onto the 8 course.We can re-tread free". So I did that rather than blow the Org, and shortly thereafter they had me auditing their HGC just as before, but now as a student I didn't get paid for it. Not that I got paid regularly anyway. There were weeks when I didn't receive pay. AOLA still owes me money.
I was on the BC at temple with Ann and Harriette - as well as the Coles, Bill Yaude, Don Sharpe, and a bunch of others I can't recall the names of - do you remember Ann's gull wing Mercedes? One day on course Harriette wore a shear see through blouse with no bra - I don't think any production got done that day.

They were a wild pair. We had a lot of fun on course. One time I got busted for doing solo M2 word clearing on a tape with a meter. I found my M/U and got kicked off the BC for a week. ( M2 wordclearing is when a student is listening to a tape while the word clearer watches the meter for a read. The reading word is the m/u )

Mimsey


gull-wing-doors-9.jpg
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
<snip>

( M2 wordclearing is when a student is listening to a tape while the word clearer watches the meter for a read. The reading word is the m/u )

<snip>

M2 is also done with the student reading an HCOB while on the cans (or foot plates in rare cases).
Just thought I'd add that to the description.
Carry on.... :)
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Now we know the real 'why' Mimsey got kicked off the BC for a week. What he was really doing was a method2 reach and withdraw (with both his hands and his feet on Harriette's cans, and thought he had cleared 'cans' to full conceptual understanding and floated out of the room.:biggrin:

The power of a misunderstood word. It can lead to 'blows' :coolwink:


I was on the BC at temple with Ann and Harriette - as well as the Coles, Bill Yaude, Don Sharpe, and a bunch of others I can't recall the names of - do you remember Ann's gull wing Mercedes? One day on course Harriette wore a shear see through blouse with no bra - I don't think any production got done that day.

They were a wild pair. We had a lot of fun on course. One time I got busted for doing solo M2 word clearing on a tape with a meter. I found my M/U and got kicked off the BC for a week. ( M2 wordclearing is when a student is listening to a tape while the word clearer watches the meter for a read. The reading word is the m/u )

Mimsey


gull-wing-doors-9.jpg

M2 is also done with the student reading an HCOB while on the cans (or foot plates in rare cases).
Just thought I'd add that to the description.
Carry on.... :)
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I was on the BC at temple with Ann and Harriette - as well as the Coles, Bill Yaude, Don Sharpe, and a bunch of others I can't recall the names of - do you remember Ann's gull wing Mercedes? One day on course Harriette wore a shear see through blouse with no bra - I don't think any production got done that day.

They were a wild pair. We had a lot of fun on course. One time I got busted for doing solo M2 word clearing on a tape with a meter. I found my M/U and got kicked off the BC for a week. ( M2 wordclearing is when a student is listening to a tape while the word clearer watches the meter for a read. The reading word is the m/u )

Mimsey


HAH! No. I don't remember the Mercedes. But I do remember Temple Street. I did sumthins there, but I dunt recall what. Not the B.C.
I remember Jeff Mintz, Rachel, and Tory. Not many more. I never had much to do with Staff, or other students. I only went into an Org to do MY thing, and wasn't involved with others much. I think I received Power auditing there. LaMont Johnson was there. Phil Spickler. ( I could have the times confused) Dolores Stokes. David Aldridge.
There was a great Cuban Restaurant near ASHO that I frequented. I still prepare a dish that they served there...Pulled Pork served over Plaintains with a black bean and corn salsa.
I think AO was down on Western near lafayette park. Rocky Stump was Sr C/S.
Tks for the memories. This was all before the thing went to shit. Or before I was far enuff into it to see that it was turning into shit. sigh....
 
I was on the BC at temple with Ann and Harriette - as well as the Coles, Bill Yaude, Don Sharpe, and a bunch of others I can't recall the names of - do you remember Ann's gull wing Mercedes? One day on course Harriette wore a shear see through blouse with no bra - I don't think any production got done that day.

They were a wild pair. We had a lot of fun on course. One time I got busted for doing solo M2 word clearing on a tape with a meter. I found my M/U and got kicked off the BC for a week. ( M2 wordclearing is when a student is listening to a tape while the word clearer watches the meter for a read. The reading word is the m/u )

Mimsey


HAH! No. I don't remember the Mercedes. But I do remember Temple Street. I did sumthins there, but I dunt recall what. Not the B.C.
I remember Jeff Mintz, Rachel, and Tory. Not many more. I never had much to do with Staff, or other students. I only went into an Org to do MY thing, and wasn't involved with others much. I think I received Power auditing there. LaMont Johnson was there. Phil Spickler. ( I could have the times confused) Dolores Stokes. David Aldridge.
There was a great Cuban Restaurant near ASHO that I frequented. I still prepare a dish that they served there...Pulled Pork served over Plaintains with a black bean and corn salsa.
I think AO was down on Western near lafayette park. Rocky Stump was Sr C/S.
Tks for the memories. This was all before the thing went to shit. Or before I was far enuff into it to see that it was turning into shit. sigh....
I lived down the block from AOLA on Westlake in Richard O' Kanes house - here's a funny Rocky story for you:

Alberto Villada, Pat Scafarri and I decided to shoot off a few rounds one evening from this pistol Pat had, so we went down in the basement of Richard's house...

Meanwhile , Rocky was getting off post at about 10:30 pm - he used to keep the window open in his C/S office with a rather large Bowie Knife, and he wore fringed deer skin boots with a derringer stuffed in to one of the legs. This particular day he had forgotten to pack heat ( as the expression goes) and was strolling down Westlake towards his off base house next to ours to his blonde NSO wife - when we were blasting away at an old mattress in the basement.

Someone in the neighborhood freaked out and called the cops. So who do they see coming down the street - Rocky. The cuffed him and frisked him - lucky he forgot the derringer - the cops were more gun nuts then than now - it could have been a lot worse....

We were walking back from the Olympian on Olympic Blvd. and arrived just after the cops left - and found all about the mess we created inadvertently from his wife who hadn't gone back in their house yet. Oops!

Mimsey

Click link to see what it looks like now:
https://goo.gl/maps/DYN7nbkjqM52
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
. . .
About eight years ago, I had coffee with an OOT (outer org trainee) who had gone to Flag to train up to be the org's Senior CS. He had just gotten back a few months earlier.

He went from not trained, the ground up to Class 6 auditor and CS (including internships); Clear Certainty Rundown CS, course supervisor training, TRs course sup, KTL sup/CS, and a few other smaller rundowns. Don’t remember which. But the point is he trained on everything he needed to anchor the technical team at his org as Senior CS. GAT I everything. While he was there, he also co-audited to Grade 3 as I recall.

Well, I asked him how long it took to do all that since I thought it was just an incredible amount of training to do in one gulp . . . one stay at Flag and on full-time training. I figured a year or two . . . or three at the very most.

He told me. Hearing his answer, any lesser mortal would have spit out her coffee but I kept my cool.
He was at Flag for eight (8) years full-time. :omg:
I’m still incredulous about this even as I write, but it’s the god-honest truth. I double checked to make sure I was hearing right. Yes, eight years. :omg:

Yup. LOTS of folks took dramatically longer to complete their training. Nearly everyone sent to Flag for auditor or C/S training took years.

And ever since I've been in, the COS has pushed "speed of delivery" and bragged about how quickly one can become an auditor.

Looking back, it's ironic that Hubbard bragged about understanding all about study tech and internships and corrective technology yet auditors were frequently creamed and retrained and retreaded and blasted and declared and RPF'd for out-tech. "Lightning fast" training, LOL.

LRH had a DREAM about training which didn't match up with reality. But LRH's visions were frequently cartoonish and he'd yell and scream and send folks to the RPF if things didn't work out. Time in training was an altered universe in the COS.

So many "enforced" realities.
 

Gib

Crusader
Yup. LOTS of folks took dramatically longer to complete their training. Nearly everyone sent to Flag for auditor or C/S training took years.

And ever since I've been in, the COS has pushed "speed of delivery" and bragged about how quickly one can become an auditor.

Looking back, it's ironic that Hubbard bragged about understanding all about study tech and internships and corrective technology yet auditors were frequently creamed and retrained and retreaded and blasted and declared and RPF'd for out-tech. "Lightning fast" training, LOL.

LRH had a DREAM about training which didn't match up with reality. But LRH's visions were frequently cartoonish and he'd yell and scream and send folks to the RPF if things didn't work out. Time in training was an altered universe in the COS.

So many "enforced" realities.

It did start with Dianetics in which any two people could "clear" themselves in a few hundred hours. LOL

There is a taped lecture series now available at the COS, which all members are now required to listened to as part of the going up the bridge to total freedom, it's called "The Power of Simplicity".

My oh my, from the stated original going clear in a few hundred hours, to now studying everything hubbard ever said, listening to every taped lecture, to getting fully trained, hundreds of hours of lectures and books to read and hundreds of hours of auditing another and receiving hundreds of hours..............

my oh my, The Power of Simplicity just doesn't seem so. LOL

Oh, there is the one shot "clear", stated by hubbard as 50%. LOL
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
First note - very good thread! I watched several people "pull in" cancer to get out of OOT at Flag Scam Base.

ALL of Scientology is evil - too many lies mixed in with truths.

It really is a science of super inflating the EGO, hijacking it, then pummeling it into submission until you GIVE ALL

I second the motion:

"The rule is: EVERYONE WHO STAYS WITH SCIENTOLOGY EVENTUALLY GETS SCREWED. ALWAYS. IT'S NEVER ABOUT YOU. WHAT IS ULTIMATE YOU CAN YOU GIVE? NOT ENOUGH. GIVE MORE. ALWAYS".


I don't think it is all David Miscavige though....I believe you have to find "basic on a chain"

and I'll give you a little hint...so you can truly "as is" all of Scientology

heeeeeerrrrrrrreeeee's Tubby:


62325053_a8e032d751.jpg


I am rolling on the floor laughing - just look at that photo folks..

When we were in, we would look at it IN AWE - wondering what being occupied the beingness of a tomato and where was he/she past life - what did he do that "pulled in" growing on a vine to be stewed in this lifetime?


Now that we are out - LOOK at L Ron! All serious - going to get the charge off of that tomato and pull its O/W's! LOLOLOLololol
 
A big part of the long lags has to do with the basic DNA of Scientology. And that is the concept; you are totally responsible for your own condition and the concept that the tech is correct. ( KSW #1) The org is responsible to recruit and send a staff member to a higher org for training. The org is expected to pay for the training and the room and board. Further, the org is also expected to give a large chunk of their income to flag, and the org has to compete with the IAS for the public's $.

So, the failure of having the correct tech, "the only reason you get upbraided is from lack of results" has resulted in attacks which has necessitated a corporate restructuring and fragmentation of the organization. Rather than fix the tech, this was done so the org could survive any legal attack. Had they had simply fixed the tech, and curtailed offering the resultless parts, the attacks would have ceased. But Hubbard's ego prevented that approach.

If you couple this fragmentation with the concept of individual responsibility it all becomes clear.

In a sane organization with a good workable product, the organization would not be fragmented. So the staff would be trained at the organizations expense or recruited from colleges and universities the provide the training.

But in a fragmented organization - there is no pooling of resources. So we have these individual organizations are now being treated like the public. Each is responsible for paying it's own way. Hence Flag charges outer orgs to train their staff, and if the orgs can't pay to maintain a staff member there, the staff on training works for Flag to pay for their food and berthing etc. resulting in extended time. And that my friend, is why training takes so long.

it's in the DNA of the organization.

Mimsey
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
But in a fragmented organization - there is no pooling of resources. So we have these individual organizations are now being treated like the public. Each is responsible for paying it's own way. Hence Flag charges outer orgs to train their staff, and if the orgs can't pay to maintain a staff member there, the staff on training works for Flag to pay for their food and berthing etc. resulting in extended time. And that my friend, is why training takes so long.

There are also the accounting reasons. Both the orgs and Flag need to have bills to Flag to offset all the monies they send uplines. So the weekly $5000 (or whatever) isn't "to add to Hubbard's already gigantic personally inured slush fund" but in payment towards "Flag Mission #5663" to the org three years ago or "Flag Executive Briefing Course for Billy Smithers" who is/was training at Flag to be the org DD/CO for PR and Bullshit.

Paul
 
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