Flag Trained GAT 2 Course Supervisor Defects to Independent Scientology in SA

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Flag Trained GAT 2 Course Supervisor Defects to Independent Scientology in South Africa.

From the South African Independent Scientology blog, Scientologists getting back in comm:

Francois lays it down!
https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/francois-lays-it-down/#more-614

img-20140102-wa000-1.jpg


Francois Groenewald sent us this write up. A bit of context – he was on training at Flag for GAT 2 as a Pretoria staff member when the infamous 18 declares were issued at the end of October. His wife was (and is) employed by the Corbett’s. Francois has not given the full story of what went down but suffice to say it was not pleasant. The comm below is his alone and as he has said he takes full responsibility for it.

It is further evidence of how this church cannot help but hurt itself and how they continue to lose their best people and how they are losing control in South Africa despite the 14 man A-Team they sent here to calm the natives with heavy handed 1960s style cold war tactics.

Welcome Francois, you have many friends here!

I have recently returned from Flag as a GAT 2 Course Supervisor. Since returning, my wife Kelly and I have had the disconnection policy threatened to us from a few angles.

First my wife received immense pressure to leave her job, as she has been working for the Corbett’s for just under three years. We decided that she would not be resigning from her job at this stage, as it would actually be contra-survival to do so. The pressure kept coming. Meanwhile, for quite a number of reasons, I then decided to leave the Org.

I just could not believe and still find it hard to, that at this stage of South Africa’s time track, after everything this country has been through in recent times, a group walks in and acts like a mini Hendrik Verwoerd. Pushing this idea that because they say so you are not allowed to communicate to a particular group. Bear in mind that I attended Afrikaans schools as a child, where the idea of apartheid was being heavily indoctrinated into the minds of SA’s next generation of Afrikaners. In 1994 everything changed and I found myself suddenly playing in a rugby team alongside a Chinese boy, an Indian boy and a Zulu boy. I found my viewpoint changing drastically and at that point decided that never ever, ever again would I be party to ANY form of segregation, no matter who it was being promoted by. I am a member of the New South Africa and I refuse to tolerate the idea that any sector of our society should be segregated from another simply because of a difference of viewpoint or beliefs.

After I left the Org threats started being made to my wife that she will be declared and this will now leave her disconnected from her own family, also Scientologists.

The Comm Ev then took place, with Kelly and I named as two of the 15 interested parties.
We went in to see the Committee at Pretoria Org with the intention to try to prevent a potential declare for Kelly as it would have caused a massive problem for her family. We realised that even though Kelly and I had made the decision to discontinue our own involvement with the C of S, we did not want this decision to impact on others’ involvement if they saw it as survival. For me personally I wanted to show the Committee that we would not be bullied and we are willing to confront them. This was on the evening of 6 December. We made a point of driving by the Union Buildings just up the road from Pretoria Org beforehand, where thousands of people had visited throughout that day and were still visiting that evening to pay their respects to Nelson Mandela who had passed away the previous night. We found it ironic that an unjust Comm Ev was being held only a few blocks away, while the rest of the country were celebrating the life of one of the greatest fighters for justice that our world has known.

Three and a half weeks after going in to the Comm Ev we have still not received any communication back from the Committee. Our thought was that with 15 interested parties it probably takes a while to issue the findings…

Yesterday a phone call was made to Kelly’s mother in the UK to say that she has to get Kelly into the Org immediately to handle her work situation because if she doesn’t Kelly and her entire family will be declared. No communication was made to Kelly and I directly on this.

So today I decided to communicate openly on the blog as I sincerely hope to get declared at this stage. I actually cannot stand the threats and harassment anymore and basically the only way for us to avoid being declared would be for Kelly to abandon her livelihood and for me to return to the Org. This is not going to happen.
Like any normal person Kelly will leave her job when she wants a different challenge or if the Corbett’s perhaps feel her performance is not ideal – neither of which is the case at this point in time.

In my opinion, even if you are LRH himself, if you pick up a phone and tell a mother that she has to either do as you say or she will be forced to disconnect from her daughter, then you have committed so many overts you are now at a point where you have actually lost touch with reality.

I was the first Golden Age of Tech 2 Course Supervisor made from Africa. Hopefully this article forces OSA to declare me.

My message to OSA is the following:

Not sure if you guys have ever experienced dealing with a group of red-blooded angry Afrikaners before. Well you’re about to.

Africa is about to become a very interesting place for the Church of Scientology and their mini Anti-Human Rights Campaign!

And if the Corbett’s have in fact started an Independent Scientology group, as has been claimed by the Church, please consider me as a potential Course Sup.


If they haven’t started a group, well, then I will.
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yet another fine example of true-blue scientologists experiencing the threat of disconnection themselves; when all along those policies were just fine with them when applied to other people.

I am sure that Mr. Groenewald fully supported the LRH disconnection/SP/harassment 'tek' for years and most likely saw other South African scientologists declared unceremoniously. But now that the OSA boot of disconnection is firmly planted up his ass, it doesn't feel so good.

On the other hand, this schism in the cult over in SA is a happy step towards it's destruction. :thumbsup:
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Happy New Year - 3 days in and another valuable group members reaches the EP of Scientology - you must be declared an SP to be free!
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
Francois Groenewald Kicking ass and taking names.

This thread needs a new name. (see above)


This guy is totally awesome. I love the feel of fresh ex members. They are so enthusiastic in a really pissed off way.

Welcome to real freedom Francois! I'm so proud you made it back.
 

Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
This blog article from Francois and Kelly are fantastic. I am personally very pleased at the recent events - Mike Rinder being savagely attacked via email, the first GAT II defector not even a month after they all fired from Flag, Tommy's deposition full of woo and putrefaction. You will be hearing more from me and about me and my own story soon. I am very inspired by all of this. I think with the reports of widespread disaffection with GAT II, that this year really will be the greatest yet for the downfall of RCS.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Yet another fine example of true-blue scientologists experiencing the threat of disconnection themselves; when all along those policies were just fine with them when applied to other people.

I am sure that Mr. Groenewald fully supported the LRH disconnection/SP/harassment 'tek' for years and most likely saw other South African scientologists declared unceremoniously. But now that the OSA boot of disconnection is firmly planted up his ass, it doesn't feel so good.
I don't think this is fair, and I have no idea how you can be "sure" that he "fully supported the LRH disconnection/SP/harassment 'tek' for years." You have no facts, and indeed no idea, concerning what his personal experience was.

In my experience, many Scientologists -- and particularly those at outer Orgs (and you can't get much "outer" than South Africa) far away from Clearwater and Los Angeles -- don't know what is really going on. It very well might be that South Africa was largely immune from this until GAT 2 hit and people started bitching and getting declared.
 
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Anonycat

Crusader
I don't think this is fair, and I have no idea how you can be "sure" that he "fully supported the LRH disconnection/SP/harassment 'tek' for years." You have no facts, and indeed no idea, concerning what his personal experience was.

In my experience, many Scientologists -- and particularly those at out outer Orgs (and you can't get much "outer" than South Africa) far away from Clearwater and Los Angeles -- don't know what is really going on. It very well might be that South Africa was largely immune from this until GAT 2 hit and people started bitching and getting declared.

I would like to jump to a conclusion, and that is: these days, you just don't know what is going through peoples' minds that are about to leave. It's a wildfire of people choosing to leave. When people contact me in confidence, their personal situation is completely unique. This is different than the old days, this is the end of scientology as we have known it.
 
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Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
Gotta love it. Reminds me of a MNF game with Don Meredith singing his famous song "Turn off the lights....the party's over"

[video=youtube;CtGxusvUT3k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtGxusvUT3k[/video]
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just a thought -- what if some executive in the C of S actually wants to preserve the subject rather than kill it off? The best way to do that would be to piss off the most productive staff and force them to leave and go indie. That way the church could pass quietly (and without sorrow) into the night, and training and processing would still be available (and probably of a better quality than the church had been providing).

Helena
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
What a mess for his wife! I hope she thought this out thoroughly and that her family is supporting them in their leaving. There's no little to no going back when it comes to the cult's disconnection effect on loved ones. :(
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yet another fine example of true-blue scientologists experiencing the threat of disconnection themselves; when all along those policies were just fine with them when applied to other people.

I am sure that Mr. Groenewald fully supported the LRH disconnection/SP/harassment 'tek' for years and most likely saw other South African scientologists declared unceremoniously. But now that the OSA boot of disconnection is firmly planted up his ass, it doesn't feel so good.

On the other hand, this schism in the cult over in SA is a happy step towards it's destruction. :thumbsup:


Yes, but isn’t that (mostly) always the case?

You think that your tribe is right, even if they do bad things. But sometimes it takes a personal injustice from your own side to see that they are wrong. Generally, it is only the truly exceptional personalities who can see past their own prejudices and spot a wrong before it affects them personally.

The important thing is that Francois now knows that the CoS is an evil cult and he is telling others. Sounds like the cult is in meltdown in SA. Hopefully this will spread – I know that there are many South Africans living in the UK right now.

Axiom142
 

Deeana

Patron with Honors
How would it be possible to be in ANY org ANYWHERE and not be aware of "Declares" and "Disconnections"? This is not something new. It has been going on for years and years. I just can't understand how any Cof$ member could not be aware of the policies. Any time anyone blows - whether officially declared or not - they are never to be spoken to again, correct? Am I missing something?
 

Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
How would it be possible to be in ANY org ANYWHERE and not be aware of "Declares" and "Disconnections"? This is not something new. It has been going on for years and years. I just can't understand how any Cof$ member could not be aware of the policies. Any time anyone blows - whether officially declared or not - they are never to be spoken to again, correct? Am I missing something?

The level of intolerance by certain individuals on this board is shocking to me sometimes. Anyone who was in Scientology for real - not just a bookbuyer or an occasional Div 6er - knows the magnitude of the mind control and group agreement that goes on in there. It requires an INCREDIBLE force of will to overcome that and even start to look at the truth. Then, once you start seeing it, you have to be willing and able enough to take the next step. That is what being in a cult is all about! Agreeing to not look at any one else's reality except the reality the cult gives you. Any cult operates that way, including every single organized religion on the planet. It is not a sickness only given to Scientologists.

Of course we all knew about declares and disconnections when we were in. That didn't mean we thought they were BAD when we were in the cult! Just the opposite. When you buy into the cult think, you are more than happy to kick people out who don't buy into it and try to tell you how wrong you are for believing in it.

In my own case (and I believe in the case of the majority of Scientologists), I was convinced that only a very small number of people were ever declared or disconnected and that they had done things so bad that they really did deserve it. In fact, one of my own personal "wake up calls" was when I saw how wrong I was and how there were many many people being declared and kicked out. That was one of the lies that woke me up because I knew that was wrong. Breaking up families was totally not okay.

But to point the finger of blame at me now that I'm out and say "You should have known better. You're a bad person for having agreed to that for all those years. You suck." What's the point of telling me that? What's the point of saying something like that? I'm out now. And I'm doing everything I can to get the word of truth to those who are still in. Is that not enough for you? What more do you want?

I'm not this guy in South Africa, but I sure agree with what he did. I left under somewhat similar circumstances myself. I'm all the way out now, I'm a declared SP and I'm never going back. I'll be telling my full story soon enough. But I sure as hell don't want to tell it to people who are just going to point their fingers at me and tell me how I should have "woken up" sooner and I'm just a big idiot. Maybe that makes someone feel good to tell others that, but I can tell you that it sure doesn't help anyone and it sure doesn't make them want to open up and tell their own story or even come here in the first place. I wish the intolerant people on this board could see that.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
The level of intolerance by certain individuals on this board is shocking to me sometimes. Anyone who was in Scientology for real - not just a bookbuyer or an occasional Div 6er - knows the magnitude of the mind control and group agreement that goes on in there. It requires an INCREDIBLE force of will to overcome that and even start to look at the truth. Then, once you start seeing it, you have to be willing and able enough to take the next step. That is what being in a cult is all about! Agreeing to not look at any one else's reality except the reality the cult gives you. Any cult operates that way, including every single organized religion on the planet. It is not a sickness only given to Scientologists.

Of course we all knew about declares and disconnections when we were in. That didn't mean we thought they were BAD when we were in the cult! Just the opposite. When you buy into the cult think, you are more than happy to kick people out who don't buy into it and try to tell you how wrong you are for believing in it.

In my own case (and I believe in the case of the majority of Scientologists), I was convinced that only a very small number of people were ever declared or disconnected and that they had done things so bad that they really did deserve it. In fact, one of my own personal "wake up calls" was when I saw how wrong I was and how there were many many people being declared and kicked out. That was one of the lies that woke me up because I knew that was wrong. Breaking up families was totally not okay.

But to point the finger of blame at me now that I'm out and say "You should have known better. You're a bad person for having agreed to that for all those years. You suck." What's the point of telling me that? What's the point of saying something like that? I'm out now. And I'm doing everything I can to get the word of truth to those who are still in. Is that not enough for you? What more do you want?

I'm not this guy in South Africa, but I sure agree with what he did. I left under somewhat similar circumstances myself. I'm all the way out now, I'm a declared SP and I'm never going back. I'll be telling my full story soon enough. But I sure as hell don't want to tell it to people who are just going to point their fingers at me and tell me how I should have "woken up" sooner and I'm just a big idiot. Maybe that makes someone feel good to tell others that, but I can tell you that it sure doesn't help anyone and it sure doesn't make them want to open up and tell their own story or even come here in the first place. I wish the intolerant people on this board could see that.

I don't think it's intolerance GP, it's more incredulity from the never-ins. I remember talking to people who had lost family members to Stalin's terror who were still associating the CPSU with patriotism for Russia and the USSR back in the 1990s, and slowly I began to see how the insidious propaganda campaign of a lifetime intertwined the two. It was almost impossible for those septagenarians and octagenarians to disentangle their love of country from loyalty to the Party, even after all the party had done to them and their families, when I, as an outsider, could see the problems so easily. That was when I really began to examine my own assumptions in life that had been handed down through religious and cultural tradition.

I can only imagine that the religious nature of $CN makes putting on those kinds of blinders much quicker and easier even than the Communists were able to do with propaganda. For every Pavel Morozov wannabe, there were dozens of families who thought that was just sick. But I think in the Co$ the percentage of kids who would out their parents is probably over 50%, judging by the stories on this board. Most never-ins have never met anyone in the flesh who was in a Pavel Morozov-type situation, so we can't really comprehend what was going on in your minds.

So when never-ins express these kinds of questions, please take it as a question, not an attack, because most of us have not had the up close and personal experience with the kind of lying evil that brainwashed you.
 

Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
Thank you Udarnik. I appreciate what you are saying.

As you said, "Most never-ins have never met anyone in the flesh who was in a Pavel Morozov-type situation, so we can't really comprehend what was going on in your minds."

That is so true. If they would only recognize that and stop judging. It doesn't help anyone to be that way. If someone has questions or doesn't understand, then ask. But skip the holier-than-thou pronouncements about how deceitful or stupid or whatever people in the cult were. Of course we were deceitful and stupid. That's what it meant to be in the cult. Now that we're out, all we need is some reassurance and help decompressing. This is probably the only subject in which I can claim to be an expert.
 
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ahhhh...

some writing with cinematic quality!!!

the comm ev juxtaposed to the mandelafest...

o.k.

that's one piece of the screen play. i see this as a pilot for a half hour weekly...

what's the rest of the script look like?
 
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