For New Scios OUT: How OSA flies on the Net

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Please pick one of these quotes that speaks to you (not offered to anyone in particular).

“The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”
― Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers: Autobiographical Reflections

“The truth is, unless you let go, unless you forgive yourself, unless you forgive the situation, unless you realize that the situation is over, you cannot move forward.”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

“To err is human, to forgive, divine.”
― Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism

“Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.”
― Mark Twain

“The willingness to forgive is a sign of spiritual and emotional maturity. It is one of the great virtues to which we all should aspire. Imagine a world filled with individuals willing both to apologize and to accept an apology. Is there any problem that could not be solved among people who possessed the humility and largeness of spirit and soul to do either -- or both -- when needed?”
― Gordon B. Hinckley, Standing for Something: 10 Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes

:rose:

These are all great quotes. Thank you.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Re: Karen -- 24,777 people viewed it in 3 days. That is a global audience. And that she is Indy OSA?

[video=youtube;1Rw0lPXaUSw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rw0lPXaUSw[/video]
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Re: Karen -- 24,777 people viewed it in 3 days. That is a global audience. And that she is Indy OSA.

There is no evidence, only rumours from people who never understood Karen or what she was trying to achieve.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
This regulary search after OSA idiots really pisses me off. :grouch: Even the insinuation against some Indies or Emma pisses me off. :angry: Don't want to hear this shit anymore.:blah:




:hattip:
Nicole
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
http://youtu.be/HmRDM7GyJXE

not sure why, but it feels right... It's not a song I even particularly like, but with this thread... with all my heart I hope Emma goes out and freaking enjoys herself out in the real world and forgets about all of us on the board for at least a day. Take a load off, for real, ok? It sounds like from posts, that you might have been doing that, but I'm just here to reinforce the measure:biggrin: and, I have to go deal with people looking for dates for me lol.... uh, I'm NOT ADVERSE to the idea btw....
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
http://youtu.be/HmRDM7GyJXE

not sure why, but it feels right... It's not a song I even particularly like, but with this thread... with all my heart I hope Emma goes out and freaking enjoys herself out in the real world and forgets about all of us on the board for at least a day. Take a load off, for real, ok? It sounds like from posts, that you might have been doing that, but I'm just here to reinforce the measure:biggrin: and, I have to go deal with people looking for dates for me lol.... uh, I'm NOT ADVERSE to the idea btw....

Thanks Clammie. I'm good :biggrin: I'm actually enjoying the board again in what seems to be a very long time. I knew there would be some dust raised when Alanzo came back but I think that's actually going OK and things will settle down.

My wish is that people would just accept other people for who & what they are instead of inventing theories for their own amusement. It really does hurt and I think we've all had enough hurt for one lifetime.

I hope YOU get a hot saucy date to distract you from ESMB for a while. You deserve it.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
This needs a :bump2:

Thanks, Tory - your courage is astounding. You don't waste time/energy stirring the shit INSIDE us, or here, you take the battle where it belongs, out there - to the co$/osa/dm. You present it to the public, and to those getting out, those in doubt, those questioning. You REACH them. You are DOING, not bitching, and I love it. No arm-chair critic you. You walk the talk. Yea. :happydance:
You are a hero - a real one. Thank you. :clap::thumbsup:

Well, Lurker5, you possibly hold the record for planting "What The Fucks" on my posts on ESMB, so either you just like saying that to people or you actually disagree with me. Oh wait, there's a "disagree" button, so that can't be it. So what does "WTF" mean? Most of the time it seems to mean something like, "Hey, you're a crazy asshole." Mmmm... Sounds a bit like you're attempting to "degrade" and discredit me. Mmmm...

Apparently, I'm one of those judged not to be cooperating sufficiently with the shoulder to shoulder united effort to take down Miscavige/Cof$, so, considering your team spirit, I can see why you'd be annoyed with me, and might consider such "degradation" acceptable.

The funny part of this is, I'm completely in favor of you expressing your views (although "WTF" is not so much a view as an e-poke in the gut).

IMO, the freedom to express one's views, to disagree, to exercise critical faculties, is essential.

That means that we won't always agree, and that's good. We can even argue about stuff. :ohmy:

It doesn't necessarily mean we're "doing the Cof$'s work." :unsure:

So, while I agree with, and admire, Tory, and the tactics she described are very true :), it's also true that (in effect) re-training people to limit their views and agreements/disagreements to a kind of "unofficial, official, unofficial" acceptable deep groove - as we work towards the cause - is misguided, stifling and, ultimately, counter productive.

And I'm sure that Tory isn't encouraging any such thing, but I thought I'd write this for the sake of expression, and for clarification.

Well Veda, I'm sure you don't really want to hear my take on this, but here goes.

Lurker was post #2 and yours was #4 on this thread. You have certainly managed to derail it.

Most folks would have seen that as a direct and unprovoked attack from you. Right there and right then. Whatever your beef was, it had no place in this thread. It needed to be sorted where it originated from.

A number of folks here, myself included, saw that as an offensive post (the first part) and you were provoking a reaction. When it happened, you cried "foul!". Your initial post was the foul. If you really cannot see that, then I must assume that Forrest Gump just jumped ahead of you in college. Or you need to see a professional counselor of sorts.

Are you here anymore to be a part of this forum or on a crusade to tear it down? I can assure you, the second part ain't gonna happen. Period.

You have been attacking folks here for quite some time now and it really looks like a lot of folks here are losing patience with it. It devalues you as a person. You really need to get a handle on it and move on or out. Your choice.

This is not a suggestion to be a sycophant or whatever, just show some common decency towards others here. All you are doing is losing respect. Mostly by your own keyboard.

You had so much stuff to say before that was interesting, insightful and of great value. I'd love to see that person back. Please?
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks Clammie. I'm good :biggrin: I'm actually enjoying the board again in what seems to be a very long time. I knew there would be some dust raised when Alanzo came back but I think that's actually going OK and things will settle down.

My wish is that people would just accept other people for who & what they are instead of inventing theories for their own amusement. It really does hurt and I think we've all had enough hurt for one lifetime.

I hope YOU get a hot saucy date to distract you from ESMB for a while. You deserve it.

Yeah, that would be beyond kewl..... I kind of get massively hot and bothered and pissed off, but, I'm a freaking actor who gets over-dramatic, and it all just fades away. Bring on the hot saucy DATE!!!
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
The bottom line is we are all a bunch of sapps.

We were when we got into Scientology and we still are to some degree.

I came to the conclusion some time ago that I am not as smart as I think I am.

And I prove that every day.

It will behoove us to all just take a deep breath and a time out and rethink why we are here.

I think we will be pleased with the answer.

The Anabaptist Jacques


The same vulnerabilities that allow one to get sucked into $cientology, allow one to get sucked into the ideas of those who use those same techniques.. without the (c) and (tm) nomenclature.

And hopefully Ex-sapps, thankyou...
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
You love who you love. And you can't help it.

I like it here.

I enjoy hanging out with most of the people here.

I enjoy reading 99% of the posts here -- even the ones that piss me off.

It's tough hanging in a place, real or virtual, where you feel at odds with others. It can really suck.

I've learned more about how blinkered I am by hanging here than in any place (real or virtual) I've ever hung out.

I've learned a lot and changed a bit.

I hope I still learn and change some more.

TG1
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Here's what's outta whack

Among other things- punditry.

Veda- you got set up as a pundit. Maybe you set yourself up that way or maybe it was more other people treating you and representing you as such. Same happened with Zinj when he was here. And Hoaxie. And some others.

You know what? If the President of the US were here in my living room (Yo, Barry, give me eough notice to where I can vacuum real quick first, though,'k?) or the current head of the UN or the Pope or the head of a company with which I was doing business or was employed by- it wouldn't matter. I'd go by what they said, on a remark by remark basis. I'm not impressed by status. I don't care if someone's a board owner or posts lots of mocking parodies of the cult or looooong articles about Scn, or has been on the news or talks about OSA and Bill Yaude or picketed every day for 10 years. I really don't. I respect those things, but I don't regard those people as any better as people than, say, the lady at the latte stand or the person who redid my kitchen or my drycleaner.

Too much hero worship- not such a good thing.

I agree that too much hero worship is not a good thing. I rarely participate in such things.

But, I will present a different angle on this.

When I look around at life, the world, and people I am forever and increasingly amazed at the sheer variety of the quality and quantity of intelligence, creativity, imagination, and hard work. I admire, respect, and appreciate these things in all their many forms, whether it involve music, writing, dance, building a company, raising a child, or . . . anything. The variety of ways that the spark of creative life flows through humanity, and through each human being, continually impresses itself upon me. I am grateful to be here, and to be able to experience this as it manifests through all others.

So, when I look at what Karen does, or what Veda does, or what Hoaxie does, or what Magoo does, or what Emma does, or what Marty does, or what so MANY others do here on ESMB and elsewhere, I DO consider them to be "little heroes". I do NOT "worship" them, but I do admire them for the extra they do and add. A few days ago TAJ wrote a brilliant post on how Scientology exists as a Nietzschean cult. Just as so many others here, he does what he does in a very unique and special way, in a way that no other person does, and that adds wonderful flavor to ESMB.

I was reading a few posts by TGI this week, and I really noticed and appreciated how incredibly perceptive and intelligent the information was (and also how perceptive and intelligent the poster was).

I don't mean to leave anyone out, as there are so MANY posters who add a SPECIAL and UNIQUE angle to what is discussed here.

At one extreme I truly feel a connection with all other people, and I see myself in them, and them in me. On THAT level we ARE "all equal". But, this equality thing can get pushed too far. In fact, no two people are equal, not ever, not in terms of their unique blends of strengths, weaknesses, experiences, views, and so forth. Equality is largely an idea that does not exist anywhere in nature. On the physical plane, where all things suffer from the cycle of birth and death, there cannot be found one example of "equality". Equality factors in when one moves towards the spiritual.

But, from another view, I also very much recognize the individual brilliance of certain individuals here on ESMB who do jump out above the rest due to their own unique blend of creativity, intelligence, wit and so forth. While I don't worship Hoaxie, I do very much recognize his added special contributions to ESMB, and I have no doubt that compared to others, he has helped a great many more people break through their own Scientology layers of mental confusion than most others. I have no problem recognizing unqiue excellence. I think to deny it is a bit . . . of a form of denial.

In the same way, while I don't worship Veda (and consider him "God"), I do very much admire and appreciate all of the work he/she has done to put together the "public service announcements", and the time he/she takes to post them in appropriate places on threads. That activity, in its own way, goes beyond the call of duty. I have no doubt that many a lurker has been helped by those activities.

No single poster possesses or presents the "complete picture" or the "whole truth" (though at times some seem to think that they do). Each presents an aspect, an angle, or a certain unique but limited view. But, some views have more in terms of quality and quantity than others. It just is what it is. Some may disagree.

There are so many here who add a special something through their own unique combination of hard work, care, intelligence, experiences, and creativity.

I recognize all, but also, I recognize those who "take that extra step" and "do a bit more than the others". Focusing too much on individual achievement can turn into hero-worship, but also, failure to recognize individual excellence is equally flawed. Some do more than others, here and elsewhere, and without judging that in any way, it is a fact.

By the way Claire, I entirely agree, that when I meet any person in person, I treat them as any other person. Any thought about who or what they are is quite meaningless to me. As an example, many years ago when I drove a taxi in NYC, I often picked up really BIG celebrities (Bull Murray, Liza Minelli, etc.). I NEVER even let on that I knew "who they were". I just talked to them, with whatever they wanted to say or talk about. With Liza, at the end of the ride, which was fairly long, I gently let on that I knew who she was. She actually THANKED ME for NOT filling the conversation with puffed up ideas about WHO she was. She aid that she felt so GOOD that I talked to her just like any other person, without all the adoration and hero-worship. I actually, went out of my way NOT to mention that I knew who they were, as it seemed to always make them more comfortable.
 
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Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I believe in people doing what they can. For some it isn't much in comparison to maybe what someone else is doing, but it is what they can do, and so is a lot. Sometimes it is just being there, a comfort, maybe just listening - that is as valuable as some activist. Everyone has different gifts to offer, and circumstances dictate also what one can do. One's financial situation is often the thing that dictates what one is able to do. Unfortunately - that and health.

So we all must do what we can.

It just takes a good heart and a desire to help people, even if it is just to make a person feel better or have a revelation/insight. Helping is the only criterion. Helping others, in some way. That is the basis, I think, of self esteem - that and total honesty (with self and others) and caring - doing right - being responsible, true to one's word/promises. We do that, and the self esteem comes, because we like who we are, and we are giving back something to the world. Paying it forward, so to speak. This BTW is why addicts in recovery are encouraged to volunteer in charitable activities. It builds character and self esteem, which are needed components in being able to 'stay' with own self, without addictive substances to blunt the pain of self hatred. Learning to love oneself, starts with giving self to others.

So people here tell their stories, and help each other - and I find that to be glorious. We encourage and inform and help just by being empathetic, understanding. We give of ourselves and our own experiences. With good intent, good hearts. Gently. With care and concern - for others. Our gifts to others.

:bravo:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I believe in people doing what they can. For some it isn't much in comparison to maybe what someone else is doing, but it is what they can do, and so is a lot. Sometimes it is just being there, a comfort, maybe just listening - that is as valuable as some activist. Everyone has different gifts to offer, and circumstances dictate also what one can do. One's financial situation is often the thing that dictates what one is able to do. Unfortunately - that and health.

So we all must do what we can.

It just takes a good heart and a desire to help people, even if it is just to make a person feel better or have a revelation/insight. Helping is the only criterion. Helping others, in some way. That is the basis, I think, of self esteem - that and total honesty (with self and others) and caring - doing right - being responsible, true to one's word/promises. We do that, and the self esteem comes, because we like who we are, and we are giving back something to the world. Paying it forward, so to speak. This BTW is why addicts in recovery are encouraged to volunteer in charitable activities. It builds character and self esteem, which are needed components in being able to 'stay' with own self, without addictive substances to blunt the pain of self hatred. Learning to love oneself, starts with giving self to others.

So people here tell their stories, and help each other - and I find that to be glorious. We encourage and inform and help just by being empathetic, understanding. We give of ourselves and our own experiences. With good intent, good hearts. Gently. With care and concern - for others. Our gifts to others.

:bravo:

Beautiful! :clap:

:heartflower:
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
does this thread ever get back on topic? i just read pages and pages and pages.
alonzo, i know you from the bunker, people love your posts over there.
but you have almost singlehandedly derailed the whole of esmb.
shit, are you filling in for the commander?
rich, are alonzo and the commander the same person?
and now i have violated my own agreement with myself to keep my mouth shut and just try to wade through these threads to see if i can get the meat and potatos part, but it isn't there.
just the food fight. sheeesh.:duh:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
does this thread ever get back on topic? i just read pages and pages and pages.
alonzo, i know you from the bunker, people love your posts over there.
but you have almost singlehandedly derailed the whole of esmb
.
shit, are you filling in for the commander?
rich, are alonzo and the commander the same person?
and now i have violated my own agreement with myself to keep my mouth shut and just try to wade through these threads to see if i can get the meat and potatos part, but it isn't there.
just the food fight. sheeesh.:duh:

I had no idea that I possessed such POWA.

I should go into politics or something and become The AntiChrist.

I have an idea that Tory's intentions for this thread are being fulfilled.

But that's just me.

Alanzo
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I had no idea that I possessed such POWA.

I should go into politics or something and become The AntiChrist.

I have an idea that Tory's intentions for this thread are being fulfilled.

But that's just me.

Alanzo

5 year old thread is 5 year old
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
just as a btw.... I've been hanging out here more than usual because I've been sicker than hell... watching way too much netflix and tv on the computer and cruise into ESMB during breaks... and yes, once I'm done coughing up a lung, I'd be very agreeable to someone finding me a date.
 
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