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For the record

The student hat course, was perhaps the worst introduction to Scientology imaginable. Why it was one of the first things one did is beyond me. When I got in you did the HAS, HQS etc. I don't even think the student hat course was part of the bridge till the '80's That said, I do recall listening to the study tapes reel to reel back in the late 60's - they had all of the GPM jargon in them - I remember asking this guy, Myron? what in hell a line plot was. His explanation was worse than what the tape was saying. And there were those impatient souls that put a strip of paper on the spindle - so Hubbard sounded like mickey mouse - high and squeaky - you could do a 90 min tape in half an hour.

mimsey
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
The student hat course, was perhaps the worst introduction to Scientology imaginable. Why it was one of the first things one did is beyond me. When I got in you did the HAS, HQS etc. I don't even think the student hat course was part of the bridge till the '80's That said, I do recall listening to the study tapes reel to reel back in the late 60's - they had all of the GPM jargon in them - I remember asking this guy, Myron? what in hell a line plot was. His explanation was worse than what the tape was saying. And there were those impatient souls that put a strip of paper on the spindle - so Hubbard sounded like mickey mouse - high and squeaky - you could do a 90 min tape in half an hour.

mimsey

Agreed! The only way I got through the Student Hat was because I was locked up in the course room long enough in a foreign country with no money and an even worse aversion to the ethics department (which I frequented often enough for transgressions such as having no money to buy unscented shampoo).

The worst part was that I was a heavy smoker in an era where you could smoke almost anywhere except a Scientology course room. The whole time my attention was on "Aaagh, I want a cigarette!!"
 
Not even slightly. :no:

The number of people I meet out & about who have no ability to process language apart from a literal understanding is utterly disheartening. It is certainly true that I am an old fart, but it truly seems to be as if the american public education system has been badly degraded since my youth, which I do not recall as a particularly halcyon time of palm trees & paradises.


Mark A. Baker

I should rephrase it to "it is something consistent with those raised on Study Tech, although the poor educational system can produce that same effect as Study Tech does.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
I think they are very representative of their generation. My daughter and her friends are a similar age. My point is they have the information at their fingertips and are skilled at finding it, evaluating it, discussing it and utilising it. They didn't need study tech for that, just an interest in the subject and access to a wide range of information.

There is also research indicating that people have different learning styles. With the internet you can access material that is written, spoken, visual, demonstrated, or even simulated.
How much easier and more fun is it to learn this way than in a "What is a course?" course room. Nothing has ever done more to kill my love of learning than studying using Scientology methodology.

Yes, that's how education in the "wog world" is these days. Those are some of the objectives.

I just want to say something about "learning in a social environment" too, which completely permeates education in the wog world. I think it comes from Vygotsky's theories and has been around a long time now.
Students and teachers do things interactively and teachers get students to "discover" the meanings in what they study...to a great extent. It is a social co-operative way of learning.

In the scientology cult it is the opposite. It is a very cultish method of isolating the student. Of course there are other people present, but they do not "discover" the meaning or "construct" the meaning by discussion and interaction together. The supervisor has minimal contact. The students only "twin" to mechanically ensure that hubbard's ideas are installed. I used to think individual checksheets were a good idea, and perhaps they are for certain things, but not for many learning situations. More for learning routine (probably physical) tasks such as "How to clean the tractor" :biggrin:

From theories on social-interactive-co-operative learning, the very cultish, indoctrinative nature of study tech can be seen, by contrast.
 

R6Basic

Patron Meritorious
I often wondered if those tapes could have been condensed. If Hubbard wouldn't have went off on tangents like photography or pipe organs it seems like they would not have lasted so long.

Sometimes I wondered if he had a certain time limit he needed to fill when he was given his lectures.
 
I often wondered if those tapes could have been condensed. If Hubbard wouldn't have went off on tangents like photography or pipe organs it seems like they would not have lasted so long.

Sometimes I wondered if he had a certain time limit he needed to fill when he was given his lectures.
Oh, they cut the shit out of the study tapes - that R-6 stuff - gone! But the pipe organ and photo stuff - still there. Which brings to mind another beef!!!!

Mr. Study Tech hisself bragged on the tapes how he did mail order photography courses from NY Institute of Photography in his "research" of study tech. I went by there back in the late 60's once - the place was a hole in the wall. I don't know what it is now, but at the time it was a few offices, a studio and some dark rooms and it published these thin pamphlets or course manuals. I thought it was a joke that he felt this was the epitome of photography schools. Hell, most colleges had larger facilities than that place did. I never understood why he thought taking mail order courses was anything to brag about compared to the many superior college curriculum's.

Mimsey
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
Good thread. I had some nice insights.

It was the study tech that ironically bogged me down severely as a student while on the briefing course. I had to route off mid way into part B as I got to a point where I couldn't even comprehend anything I was looking at on the written page or on the tapes. It was thought that maybe doing the Purif would help me crack my study case. At that time the Purif was the latest rage back then and was supposed to crack everyone's cases. lol

I think it was after I left the cult that once I de-stimulated and got the truth about why scientology was so screwed up (after the Mission Holders debacle) I was able unravel the mysteries of how I became a bogged student. It all came down to Hub's study tech. I was so PTS to the church back then I couldn't think straight and solve problems.

The new insights I got from this thread have helped me further understand the pitfalls in the study tech.

Thank you! I love ESMB!
 

It's a well written write up, but most of what you are attributing to Scientology is acquired by most non-Scientologists through personal growth without the need of relinquishing their achievements to a con man.

I'm not saying none of the points you make about Scientology are valid, I'm saying that most people stumble across them in life on their own and when they do, they do not take credit for their invention as Hubbard did.

But. lets say you or I were not capable of stumbling across these concepts and realizations on or own, there are so many better ways for getting there than Scientology.

When it comes to 'Self Help' or Personal Growth, using the concepts and realizations which Hubbard compiled in Scientology as prescribed by Hubbard through Scientology, is the equivalent of using a tea spoon to dig a well.

Sure even a very deep well could be dug out with a tea spoon, however if it was up to me I'd rather use a shovel,

but that doesn't mean others should not be allowed to use a tea spoon if they choose,

I just find it painful to watch them use a tea spoon to dig such a deep hole, when there are so many shovels laying around.
 

Isene

Patron with Honors
It is kinda odd when people refer argue that I could have gotten the gains in other ways, sort of like:

"Hey, I bought these very nice apples in that store over htere. Delicious."

"Yeah, but you could have bought equally nice apples elsewhere :angry:"

"Uh?"

"And many happen to find them in some garden for free, or stumbe accross them in the meaddows over there, or... :no:"

"Well, I bought them in that store over there"

"I don't wanna hear another word of that store for a multitude of reasons :nervous:".

"Ok, whatever"

What happened happened. I can only speak on how I got the gains - not on how I could have gotten them otherwise, or on the validity of the millions of different paths possible.
 
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It is kinda odd when people refer argue that I could have gotten the gains in other ways, sort of like:

"Hey, I bought these very nice apples in that store over htere. Delicious."

"Yeah, but you could have bought equally nice apples elsewhere :angry:"

"Uh?"

"And many happen to find them in some garden for free, or stumbe accross them in the meaddows over there, or... :no:"

"Well, I bought them in that store over there"

"I don't wanna hear another word of that store for a multitude of reasons :nervous:".

"Ok, whatever"

What happened happened. I can only speak on how I got the gains - not on how I could have gotten them otherwise, or on the validity of the millions of different paths possible.

some people like to crawl others like to walk, to each their own, like I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with crawling, I just prefer walking.
 

Isene

Patron with Honors
To me, going from the guy who broke down in class when he was asked to read aloud to a radio show host on the second most popular local radio show in Norway (below Coca-Cola Top 30) in two years felt like running to me. And I prefered running to walking.

What is even odder (not referring to you here) - is when beople go:

"You shouldn't say that you bought those aplles over at that store"

"Like... rewrite what happened... like lying?"

"Well, you should denounce that they were good apples"

"But, they weren't - to me"

"Or at least say that there are better apples elsewhere."

"But I don't know that"

"Well damnit :angry: just SAY IT!"
 
To me, going from the guy who broke down in class when he was asked to read aloud to a radio show host on the second most popular local radio show in Norway (below Coca-Cola Top 30) in two years felt like running to me. And I prefered running to walking.

What is even odder (not referring to you here) - is when beople go:

"You shouldn't say that you bought those aplles over at that store"

"Like... rewrite what happened... like lying?"

"Well, you should denounce that they were good apples"

"But, they weren't - to me"

"Or at least say that there are better apples elsewhere."

"But I don't know that"

"Well damnit :angry: just SAY IT!"

Do you honestly believe you'd still be the guy who broke down in class when he was asked to read aloud today, if you didn't run across Scientology?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I doubt anyone is saying "you shouldn't say that you bought those apples over at that store" ... I expect a few (like me) wonder though why you want to tell us all about the "apples" when you know perfectly well that most here bought the very same apples from the very same store and found they were not only overpriced and sour but riddled with worms.

:eyeroll:
 

Isene

Patron with Honors
I doubt anyone is saying "you shouldn't say that you bought those apples over at that store" ... I expect a few (like me) wonder though why you want to tell us all about the "apples" when you know perfectly well that most here bought the very same apples from the very same store and found they were not only overpriced and sour but riddled with worms.

:eyeroll:

I don't know that "perfectly well" ;)

And I wasn't telling "all aboyut the aplles". I simply gave my current stance on Scientology. I have also told many about the story where I was spat in the face by the ED of Oslo Org when I perhaps should have known "perfectly well" that she has been such a very warm, kind and gentle person in so many other situations.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I don't know that "perfectly well" ;)

And I wasn't telling "all aboyut the aplles". I simply gave my current stance on Scientology. I have also told many about the story where I was spat in the face by the ED of Oslo Org when I perhaps should have known "perfectly well" that she has been such a very warm, kind and gentle person in so many other situations.


Yes, you should know perfectly well, as I presume you are able to read.

I don't know about the ED Oslo specifically ... but you should know perfectly well (by now) that all staff are after one thing only ... stats, and will do whatever it takes to get them (including being 'warm').
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
LOL, good post Geir.

I have to laugh at myself. I rip and J&D scientology but I also understand that there is something of value in its "tech".

I certainly have changed since I first posted here and I continue to evolve.

One thing that has come to mind in the last few days is that scientology offered something that hooked us. It offered a road out. But unfortunately that road was "under construction" the entire way. Not only that it was booby-trapped by hidden intentions we knew not what of. Then if we manage to get to the end of that road by sheer determination we find the dirt path trailing off into uncharted territory along the edge of a sheer cliff.

It seems that there are roads out. What I've come to realize is that these roads are not easily walked - none of them. They require extreme discipline and dedication. We all thought it was going to be easy. I think that's what is behind so much of the upset. It was presented as being all worked out all we had to do was walk along this nicely marked path. Well, that was not true and thus we felt betrayed and rightly so. Suckers, to think it would be a walk in the park back to native state. Trapped by Hubbard's freedom factory (see my blog post).

Some are crawling/walking/flying out, it's taking them tens of thousands of hours of soloing (even 100's of thousands of hours) and still they find themselves on the way. Is it worth it, I'm sure they would tell you it is well worth it. Can anyone do it? Unfortunately the answer is hell no. Not for any other reason that the task is just way way too fucking hard. Handling what REALLY needs to be handled is beyond the confront and will of most. Might turn out to be beyond mine, time will tell.

Hubbard was onto something. Clearly he didn't finish the job, it did him in. Some would say it's all bullshit. I don't think so. I think the job of unraveling all that keeps us in this state of existence is just such a massive undertaking that it could well take a number of lifetimes of dedicated work.

Hubbard didn't make it. Alan Walter didn't make it. Dennis Stephens didn't make it. The body clock ran out on them. But they were pioneers. They all blazed trails that headed in a direction. Geir has a lady posting on his blog that's done 120,000 hours of solo and though some might think she's kooky, I think the lady has gotten further along than anyone I've ever heard about. So, the fat bastard Hubbard was right - the amount of time required is proportional to the gain involved.

He sold us an easy route. The fact is the route is way way longer than anyone imagined. We all wanted miracles NOW! I'm afraid it isn't so simple.

I'm going to do my best. I don't even have 100,000 hours soloing life left on this body but I'm hoping to get into a position where I can at least pick up and continue the job after this one is no longer. Many will mock the idea that there is a way out, that we are spiritual beings. No problem, there's no rush, not like the universe is going to end anytime soon. :biggrin:

That's my thought of the day.
 
Many will mock the idea that there is a way out, that we are spiritual beings.

I like how you slipped that one in,

We may or may not be spiritual beings personally I really don't care since it doesn't affect me one way or the other,

but we can all safely say that Hubbard's Mind Fuck has absolutely nothing to do with Spirituality,

unfortunately most people who spend decades of their lives searching for Spirituality in Hubbard's Con Game go insane when they finally figure that simple fact out.
 
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