For Truth's sake ...

Gib

Crusader
APA + ATA? or ... They say all good things come in pairs (or more)



In pairs and descending gradients.
Pondering which one of those logical fallacies could be more harmful though ... guess I'll vouch for the "Authority" one.
(If any, I'd rather read your OWN argumentations though ... me not much of a fan of mudslinging).

Not "all".
As early as in his first lecture (p. 14 of the Transcripts) he clearly states his caveat emptor:
"Now… uh… all this of course is is… I’m just I’m just kidding you mostly. I don’t believe
that you’ve been in the universe seventy-six trillion years. I don’t believe you have any
past before birth.
I… I don’t believe that there’s any reason whatsoever for this universe to be
here except that some fellow called the devil or something that built it. Uh… I don’t believe
any of these things. And I don’t want to be agreed with about them. It infuriates me to be
agreed with about them. So I’m not asking for anybody to agree with me but I’m not asking
for anybody to disagree with me either. All I’m asking is that we take a look at this information.

And then go through a series of class assigned exercises – each one of you will get a
mimeographed piece of paper. And that has a series of exercises on it. And it just says test
this and test that. And it gives you a rundown actually on the complete subject. It is asking
you to look for phenomena. And you’ll complete that before we’re finished here. Complete
that in the evening or when you’re off for the weekend.
It is a very interesting thing but all this phenomena is discoverable. So [bcolor=#ccffcc]I’m not asking[/bcolor]
[bcolor=#ccffcc]you to agree with me; I’m actually asking you to find out what you agreed with. And what[/bcolor]
[bcolor=#ccffcc]you have been agreeing with all this time.[/bcolor]"

I think that last sentence by itself opens the door to a whole universe of valuable self-discoveries.

:rose:
I don't think so with your last sentence, certainty not with Hubbard's rhetoric, maybe you'll get that one day.

so hubbard said I don't want you to agree, but I want you to agree. LOL

and he created a organization known as scientology for one to agree with him. You ever look at the chart hubbard created known as the chart to total freedom: (it's all bullshit)

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html
 

Me and My Self

Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn
and he created a organization known as scientology for one to agree with him. You ever look at the chart hubbard created known as the chart to total freedom: (it's all bullshit)
Among other small previous details, this series of "precise steps in perfect order and gradients" was in alignment with what I wanted as to knowledge about life and spiritual evolution. I walked in determined to learn all the possible theories and practical applications from someone who seemed to have undertaken a lifelong of incredible and thorough research on the subjects at hand.

I had been doing this research myself almost since I was born, looking for truth (after I discovered that untruth also existed, at about 4 y.o.) and more particularly after reaching majority age thus freeing myself of all the inconsistencies and missing pieces I'd found in my parents' and religion teachings about life. For this I started examining plenty of religions, lines of thought, mystical practices, past lives, psychology and healing stuff, etc. but what pissed me off was that I always felt there was "something missing", not at the goal level of course (and am still quite far of the arrival line! LOL) but in the intermediary steps. There was no sequential order, learning was done sort of in concentric circles, so to speak, so levels of evolution that I thought I'd realized kept coming back in front of me at the next turn of the wheel. Furthermore, although almost each of them seemed to possess a few valid answers about "Truth", none had them all thus not worthy of an absolute dedication. I examined and picked things here and there randomly, slowly building my own collection.

So indeed this "orderly sequence of precisely measured, weighed labeled steps" devised by someone who had apparently researched the whole subject in a much bigger and deeper scale than me and whose writings were making sense to me as they coincided and aligned in a fair extent with things I had already found out, were the "real-deal closer". He appeared to me as having already separated all the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, and reordered the whole thing in a neat and simplified to its most essential significance, series of to-do sequential steps. No more mysteries in the dark, no more missing pieces.

The map is definitely not the terrain, alas, in this particular case.

so hubbard said I don't want you to agree, but I want you to agree. LOL
Indeed his rhetoric sucks big time, especially in the lectured materials.

I don't think so with your last sentence, certainty not with Hubbard's rhetoric, maybe you'll get that one day.
Someone looks at the finger, another looks at the sky, a third one catches the pickpocket in fraganti and gets to keep the money, finding out those were Monopoly bills as soon as he gets home. Later on, someone else finds the wallet in the trash bin, and discovers a hidden and highly valued antique gold coin. :wow: :trash:

A man's trash is another man's treasure ... but has to be thoroughly cleaned and disinfected before recycllng.

That is to say, in regard to both last sentences (LRH's and mine):

1. He's just trying to make the audience "look inside themselves" and find those agreements. If they were relatively aware, they could understand a) what he is apparently trying to convey (which is also what he is really trying to convey) b) the tricky double-edged sword he's playing with here, by "wishywashing" the audience's brains as in a washing machine (agree-not agree-rinse-and-repeat). Hypnotical and dumbing.
So there's a different menu for every different level.

2. I have examined some of my own agreements and found out many interesting clues about myself. So I can conclude it is a relatively valuable tool among many others in my own toolbox.

3. I believe we always find exactly what we need to grow/evolve at a given point in life. I used to think long ago it was just a series of magical rewards, coming from the outside. I've come to find out that besides just being aligned with the right side of things, I also can steer it to get the answers I am looking for.
And it's a bit more complicated that that, yet.
But I am getting used to drive around in those damn concentric circles without getting much dizzy... :lol:
 
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