forgive me... just gotta vent!

Gus

Patron with Honors
That happened to a friend of mine recently - we had been talking earlier about how we had better plans for our retirement than our parents. Our parents being Scientologists and spending every last dime and then some, you know.

So a couple weeks later her dad calls her from Flag needing $5K to finish some crap or another. And he knows she's not in any longer. It's insane. And it always seems to be thousands of dollars, like it's friggin' pocket change or something.

Gus
 
I must be roughly your father's age. Unless he has "stupid" tattooed on his forehead, he still hasn't hit bottom. He may die before he does. Scientology is worse than gambling addictions, alcohol, heroin, crank, --you name it. Don't give him a penny. He needs to get a job, pay his health insurance premiums, have six months' living expenses in the bank, and be eating healthy. Those are real priorities. If you throw hundred dollar bills into a roaring fire, at least you know you're stupid (I hope).

and we all know what Forrest Gump's mother said, "Stupid is as stupid does."
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Hey. I've been the other person, calling a relative to borrow money to take a course. I was high-pressured into it. I felt like an asshole. My relative sent me the money. He made me promise never to tell anyone. I bought the course. Then I was showered with affection and atta-boys from the reges. If it brings you any solace, it was the last time I did it. I don't enjoy feeling like an asshole. Perhaps he doesn't, either. Hopefully that feeling will wake him up a bit.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Welcome Lifeinblue! Vent away, it airs the grievances so that they don't get smelly.

I experienced a similar event once, I got a call at work from the DSA of Sydney, she was at Flag and had been there for some time. She wanted a loan and HAD to get it as she was on a "first time at Flag" discount package and could get as many ints as she could afford at some never to be repeated discount.

She wanted a loan, 10 or 12K, I forget. She wasn't one of my favourite people, to put it mildly and had caused me a substantial amount of financial hardship at one time.

My policy at the time, developed through vast experience, was "never lend a scio money" and I told her that. "Well just give it to me then" was her answer.....WTF?

I can't recall my reply, couldn't have been too pleasant because on my next six month refresher I'd just finished the 100 or so question sec check and then got a stream of questions about the DSA. I was both pissed off and clueless as to why I had these questions, wasn't till years later that I put the two occurrences together. That was when I ran into the bloke who did lend her the money and couldn't get it returned.lol.

He'd written a KR on her and had gotten into trouble with her accusing him of being "out comm".

I just shook my head. Some scams are just too brazen for fiction.
 
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scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
:welcome: lifeinblue.

Reminds me of my niece who was sponging of her parents to support her addiction. I finally convinced them not to fund her anymore and she finally got the message they weren't paying her bills and got clean herself.:happydance:

Venting here is fine - but telling stories is even better.:thumbsup:

We gonna here yours soon? :drama:
 

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
For what it's worth - My rule of thumb is - Do I want to increase whatever value will be increased if I give this money? ie give food to a hungry person and it might increase their feeling of satisfaction - yes. Give $ to an ex-SO to increase their experience of freedom from cult suppression - yes. Give $ to a scientologist to increase their addition to the "bright" - nope. Plus of you do you will be sending your energy to prop them up.

You can try the LRH line - If you're going to play the game play - if not Don't engage at all... Sorry Dad, You know I don't play that game any more.

Good luck You sure are between a rock and hard place.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Answering original post....

Lifeinblue –

This is what I feared for my relationship with my family. So hard. I know my Mom will stay in, possibly as long as the rest of her life. I hate it. I do and there is nothing I can do about it. We are on closer terms when it comes to the ‘church’. She has even read things I have sent to her – waaaaay beyond being in conformation with the church – and I know she will have to fess up to it if she ever goes back in session. You know, I don’t care. Sounds heartless, but frankly I don’t.

You and he are both Ex S.O., so he must have known the position he was putting you in. That whole underlying conversation: he knows how you feel, he knows you aren’t gonna want to loan him the money for THAT, yet you know that the church is RIGHT there coaching him, egging him on to get the money. Hell I bet they are even using those old S.O. buttons. I just wonder how much they know about you and your position with scientology.

This is a good thing to vent on. Welcome to the board – sorry you are in such a tough spot.
 

FoTi

Crusader
LRH said, and I can't remember if I read it or heard it on a tape, but he did say that he never loans anybody any money, so just tell your dad that you're following what LRH would do.......Just following LRH's advice.

The position your dad is in really sucks. Both times that I went to Flag they pulled this stuff on me and I had to go back home to get more money before they would deliver services to me. Actually it was 3 times that I had to give them more money before they would deliver the services I already had paid for. From what I've seen and experienced for myself, when one gets regged for services at Flag, no matter how much they pay, they will always be expected to pay more when they get there. They put extreme pressure on people for money. :angry:

I hope your dad doesn't go and get himself in deep debt by borrowing that money. $5,000 doesn't go very far at Flag and if he does get it, as soon as it runs out, they will be after him to get more. I don't see how the regges can live with themselves with all the trouble they get people into financially.

He's PTS to Scientology, but they will convince him that you're the SP and he's PTS to you. What a mind f..k. :grouch:

I hope somehow that you will be able to talk with him and show him how criminally insane the CoS is and that hopefully he will listen to you and begin to wake up. If he still wants to do services, it's much cheaper in the freezone and without all the ethics garbage.

Good luck!
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
I really FELT your anger when reading your post and totally understand!!! Here's another possible scenario --

I asked my abusive husband for a divorce right after I found Scientology. He blamed Scientology for my leaving him and was VERY angry. When I returned to the Comm Course with a black eye, I was told to disconnect - no contact at all. For his "reasonable visitations" with the kids, I had to drop them off at someone else's house for him to pick up there and leave before he arrived.

However --- when the reg wanted me to fork over some money, SHE dialed his phone number and handed the phone to me - I had to stand right by the Reg's desk and ask him for money for whatever the next course was. I was terrified that he'd beat the crap out of me again, but I had to ask him because the Reg told me I had to.

The upshot is that I was DELIGHTED that he said "no" - and the Reg knew it because I was standing right in front of her. Because of his hesitation, I suspect your Dad was forced to ask and very possibly delighted that you said "no."
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
The only reason you're pissed off is that you're right, your observations are spot on, the cult's demands are ridiculous and your father's calling you on your wedding day because he ran out of hours at Flag is self serving and, what's worse, cult serving.

Ironic language apart, yeah, that's a prime example of the way the cult gets people to compromise themselves and to have everything be for good of the cult rather than the family.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
It really burns me up at how shameless the regges are. Getting the old man to call and borrow from you. These regges will do anything to make a buck. I am sorry that this is happening to you, but I know that you will be ok.

Bob

What GW said! :yes:

And :welcome: to ESMB, Lifeinblue, please keep venting and sharing more of your stories, too!

And...re: your dad calling you for 5k: :wow: No doubt the Reg was sitting right there as your dad made that call, too. THAT is pure desperation, let me tell you! :eyeroll:
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Lifeinblue –

This is what I feared for my relationship with my family. So hard. I know my Mom will stay in, possibly as long as the rest of her life. I hate it. I do and there is nothing I can do about it. We are on closer terms when it comes to the ‘church’. She has even read things I have sent to her – waaaaay beyond being in conformation with the church – and I know she will have to fess up to it if she ever goes back in session. You know, I don’t care. Sounds heartless, but frankly I don’t.

You and he are both Ex S.O., so he must have known the position he was putting you in. That whole underlying conversation: he knows how you feel, he knows you aren’t gonna want to loan him the money for THAT, yet you know that the church is RIGHT there coaching him, egging him on to get the money. Hell I bet they are even using those old S.O. buttons. I just wonder how much they know about you and your position with scientology.

This is a good thing to vent on. Welcome to the board – sorry you are in such a tough spot.

One big problem about parents asking to borrow money from adult children: you KNOW they have no retirement money stashed away, and are in debt beyond hope of recovery. If you give them money now, you will have nothing to spare once they find themselves with medical bills or having to eat dog food in their old age.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I hope your dad doesn't go and get himself in deep debt by borrowing that money. $5,000 doesn't go very far at Flag and if he does get it, as soon as it runs out, they will be after him to get more. I don't see how the regges can live with themselves with all the trouble they get people into financially.

To be successful as a reg, it seems you have to be a complete sociopath.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
One big problem about parents asking to borrow money from adult children: you KNOW they have no retirement money stashed away, and are in debt beyond hope of recovery. If you give them money now, you will have nothing to spare once they find themselves with medical bills or having to eat dog food in their old age.

I am hoping the church continues it's wacky course, my Mom sees the light of day and gets her chunk of unused cash back from Flag for the services they promised they could deliver to her until they got the money and then told my Mom - "oh well" when it was time to deliver.

It won't be enough for her to retire on but it would help.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Been there done that

Welcome Lifeinblue, thanks for venting. It helps people here, it really does.

Decades ago I was in that situation, getting auditing at Flag, ran out of hours, needed more money. The thing I remember was the INCREDIBLE PRESSURE to get the money any way possible. The seriousness factor, the "dire straits" because you are (for instance) a Clear at risk, or Red Tag, and all that bullshit. It is incredible how all the fear buttons get pushed, anything needed to get that money in. I don't think many people really understand what a mindf**k that whole game is and what it can do to a person's sanity. The game is: get someone vulnerable and then tighten the screws to squeeze the maximum amount of money out of them! They've got it down to a fine art there at Flag, the Mecca of Maximum Regging!

Anyway, Lifeinblue, you sound like you've got a lot more stories to tell, and we would love to hear them. You have quite a knack for story telling!

Keep us posted how it comes out, please?
 
Thanks...

Thank you for the comments everyone, it is appreciated.

Not sure what is happening right now but something is going on. I am not connected with many ex's so I can only make guesses but it seems there is a push to get ex-so back in the fold. I'm getting the good roads treatment from my dad now so I'm going to drop it until I see him next, if indeed I get to. :confused2:

For all the :drama: lovers I'm sorry to disappoint but I'm not sure I'll be able to tell my story anytime soon. It is being written however and if and when the time is right it will come out. Until then I'll carry on helping in the background as I have been.

Thanks again though and sorry for the outburst (I had a lot of champagne after that phone call!)

Love to you all,

blue
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
I really FELT your anger when reading your post and totally understand!!! Here's another possible scenario --

I asked my abusive husband for a divorce right after I found Scientology. He blamed Scientology for my leaving him and was VERY angry. When I returned to the Comm Course with a black eye, I was told to disconnect - no contact at all. For his "reasonable visitations" with the kids, I had to drop them off at someone else's house for him to pick up there and leave before he arrived.

However --- when the reg wanted me to fork over some money, SHE dialed his phone number and handed the phone to me - I had to stand right by the Reg's desk and ask him for money for whatever the next course was. I was terrified that he'd beat the crap out of me again, but I had to ask him because the Reg told me I had to.

The upshot is that I was DELIGHTED that he said "no" - and the Reg knew it because I was standing right in front of her. Because of his hesitation, I suspect your Dad was forced to ask and very possibly delighted that you said "no."

oh my god, that reg is appalling.... just when you think youve heard the worst stories imaginable, another one comes out that is sad enough to make you upset all over again.
Scientology turns so many into careless, thoughtless, awful people.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hello, Lifeinblue!
I hate to say it but I like to hear these stories. But only because it assures me of the limitations of the cofs. It's very hard to deal with those pressures when you are in....the pressures are often overwhelming on public at Flag. It's a huge trap. You put up with the BS for as long as you can to survive and stay in the game. I think one stays in the game because, ultimately, they want to help and be able to continue helping in spite of the obstacles the cofs ironically puts in their path at cross purposes! It's not easy to give up on that purpose on a path you believe to be the way! But until one decides not to play anymore, one is in the trap and it is some pressure cooker in there! I've been in your Dad's position. He just hasn't reached breaking point yet. I hope it's soon!

So, thanks for venting! I do understand your anger! And I hope you had a very nice time at the wedding in spite of all this.
 

HCObringOrder?

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you for the comments everyone, it is appreciated.

Not sure what is happening right now but something is going on. I am not connected with many ex's so I can only make guesses but it seems there is a push to get ex-so back in the fold. I'm getting the good roads treatment from my dad now so I'm going to drop it until I see him next, if indeed I get to. :confused2:

For all the :drama: lovers I'm sorry to disappoint but I'm not sure I'll be able to tell my story anytime soon. It is being written however and if and when the time is right it will come out. Until then I'll carry on helping in the background as I have been.

Thanks again though and sorry for the outburst (I had a lot of champagne after that phone call!)

Love to you all,

blue

You did the right thing, for you and your dad.
He is not your child, and you do not need to support/enable his habit.
 
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