Former St. Louis Staff

Hello!

The name is Andrew Moore. I was Cope Off at St. Louis Org for 2 1/2 years at the end of the 90s, moved out to LA with my lovely wife at contract end, and worked for "Elite" FSM Joyce Wallace for a couple of years. After some pretty rotten experiences at Celebrity Centre, the wife and I began drifting offlines. We've been "out" essentially for the past five years.

Here's our story in a nutshell, as written on my blog:

Well over a decade ago, my wife and I stepped over the thresh hold of the Church of Scientology of St. Louis. We both signed two and a half year contracts, and had the pleasure of working with some of the most forthright and honorable people we've ever met. Still, there was a significant disconnect between the stated aims of the Church, and the corporate climate we found ourselves in.

Although we never experienced the kind of abuse that is coming to light now, we certainly experienced the collateral effects of that abuse. Hateful, screaming phone calls from "up lines" in Los Angeles; insane, micro-managing programs sent down from on high; and the incessant interference from stridently zealous Sea Org missionaires revealed an organization not run on high affinity, communication and reality, but rather a brutal, top-down, command and control tyranny.

There is a lot of good in the study of Scientology, a lot of useful tools -- particularly at the lower end of the Bridge. There are many good people who genuinely want to help others and make this a better world.

Unfortunately, that technology and those people are beholden to a leader and a culture completely inconsistent with the stated aims. As such, we cannot in good conscience continue to align ourselves, even tacitly, with such an organization.

I would apologize to any of our friends currently in the church, but I'm not sorry for the impact this may have on you. I hope it upsets you enough that you decide to look for yourself, and apply your own personal integrity to the existing scene. Outpoints abound and you're not the only one who sees them. Look, don't listen.

For more information, I highly recommend both of Jeff Hawkins' blogs: His personal memoirs of thirty-five years in the sea org at Counterfeit Dreams, and his current commentary at Leaving Scientology. His story is compelling and very well written. If you're in the church and sensitive to such things, be advised that he does touch on the confidential materials.

And of course, you can always contact me if you have any questions: andrewmoore_[insert at sign here]hotmail.com.

We were determined to keep a low-profile, until we read Jeff Hawkins' story. We both figured if he could go through all that he went through, make the sacrifices he made, and generally triumph over the shittiest of situations, what the hell is our problem? We never really gelled with the West Coast Scientology crowd (we've never made the kind of money that would put us on a line-up), and the only family member we had in the church now lives a few hundred miles from the nearest org. Really, what's keeping us from speaking out?

If there are any St. Louis people, former Joyce Wallace selectees, or former students of Lynette McNeill lurking on this board -- and I'm sure there are -- please email me. I'd love to catch up, and nothing feels better than finding someone you can talk to about all this stuff. Pamela and I are lucky, because we have each other.
 
BTW, "John Lyle" was my attempt at a clever fake name back when I joined the forum and before I decided to man up and publicly leave the church.

Lyle is the protagonist in the Robert A. Heinlein short story "If This Goes On ..." in which Lyle states:

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.​

Anyone know how I can change it to my actual name?
 

FoTi

Crusader
BTW, "John Lyle" was my attempt at a clever fake name back when I joined the forum and before I decided to man up and publicly leave the church.

Lyle is the protagonist in the Robert A. Heinlein short story "If This Goes On ..." in which Lyle states:

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.​

Anyone know how I can change it to my actual name?

PM Emma - ask her about it.
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Hello!

The name is Andrew Moore. I was Cope Off at St. Louis Org for 2 1/2 years at the end of the 90s, moved out to LA with my lovely wife at contract end, and worked for "Elite" FSM Joyce Wallace for a couple of years. After some pretty rotten experiences at Celebrity Centre, the wife and I began drifting offlines. We've been "out" essentially for the past five years.

Here's our story in a nutshell, as written on my blog:

Well over a decade ago, my wife and I stepped over the thresh hold of the Church of Scientology of St. Louis. We both signed two and a half year contracts, and had the pleasure of working with some of the most forthright and honorable people we've ever met. Still, there was a significant disconnect between the stated aims of the Church, and the corporate climate we found ourselves in.

Although we never experienced the kind of abuse that is coming to light now, we certainly experienced the collateral effects of that abuse. Hateful, screaming phone calls from "up lines" in Los Angeles; insane, micro-managing programs sent down from on high; and the incessant interference from stridently zealous Sea Org missionaires revealed an organization not run on high affinity, communication and reality, but rather a brutal, top-down, command and control tyranny.

There is a lot of good in the study of Scientology, a lot of useful tools -- particularly at the lower end of the Bridge. There are many good people who genuinely want to help others and make this a better world.

Unfortunately, that technology and those people are beholden to a leader and a culture completely inconsistent with the stated aims. As such, we cannot in good conscience continue to align ourselves, even tacitly, with such an organization.

I would apologize to any of our friends currently in the church, but I'm not sorry for the impact this may have on you. I hope it upsets you enough that you decide to look for yourself, and apply your own personal integrity to the existing scene. Outpoints abound and you're not the only one who sees them. Look, don't listen.

For more information, I highly recommend both of Jeff Hawkins' blogs: His personal memoirs of thirty-five years in the sea org at Counterfeit Dreams, and his current commentary at Leaving Scientology. His story is compelling and very well written. If you're in the church and sensitive to such things, be advised that he does touch on the confidential materials.

And of course, you can always contact me if you have any questions: andrewmoore_[insert at sign here]hotmail.com.

We were determined to keep a low-profile, until we read Jeff Hawkins' story. We both figured if he could go through all that he went through, make the sacrifices he made, and generally triumph over the shittiest of situations, what the hell is our problem? We never really gelled with the West Coast Scientology crowd (we've never made the kind of money that would put us on a line-up), and the only family member we had in the church now lives a few hundred miles from the nearest org. Really, what's keeping us from speaking out?

If there are any St. Louis people, former Joyce Wallace selectees, or former students of Lynette McNeill lurking on this board -- and I'm sure there are -- please email me. I'd love to catch up, and nothing feels better than finding someone you can talk to about all this stuff. Pamela and I are lucky, because we have each other.

Andrew! A very hearty welcome to you here! Looking forward to hearing more of your story! :yes:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Hi Andrew

I'm Allen Stanfield. I was the ED of the Peoria Mission from 1984 to 1989.

I am the one who recruited Barry Cozhiar onto staff over 20 years ago. :ohmy:

I know Robin Hansas and Cat Savage and all the other guys from that time. And you are exactly right, they are some of the most sincere, most well-meaning people in the world.

Scientology attracted some of the best people on Earth.

Welcome to ESMB!
 

Div6

Crusader
Welcome Andrew.

Yes, the Enthetans that took "control" have driven off all of the "theta", and are playing the "see the nice shiny buildings" game......Kind of like what
Hitler did with the autobahns and volkswagons before he started the massive slaughter of innocents.

Hopefully we have inoculated the majority of theta people now about this current state of affairs. Those still in and blinded by the glowing PR may be too far gone at this point....

I hope not.

Glad to see you and your wife made it out ok.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Hello! The name is Andrew Moore.

Hi Andrew! Congratulations to you for speaking up! :thumbsup:

Jeff Hawkin's blog is one of the most helpful resources on the internet and I'm glad you found it :thumbsup:

Best wishes to you, your wife and your loved one.

Mary
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome Andrew. I hope you are happy here. I too had like experiences and never would have started looking around on the internet except for the fact that they had made me so unhappy.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Hi and :welcome: to ESMB, Andrew! :)

I might know a Joyce Wallace. (??) Does she have a son?) And did she ever used to live in Miami, Fla? :unsure:

Michelle
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
BTW, "John Lyle" was my attempt at a clever fake name back when I joined the forum and before I decided to man up and publicly leave the church.

Lyle is the protagonist in the Robert A. Heinlein short story "If This Goes On ..." in which Lyle states:

Good choice in any case :) I always try to remember to recommend 'Revolt in 2100' to escaping/in Scientologists. Plenty of good parallels.

And, yes, emma's the go-to person to change your nick.

Zinj
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Welcome and a big yeha Andrew! Congratulations on finding your way out of the labrynth basically intact!
If you could see yer way too it ~there is the 'Big List of Over 1,000...' sci's who have spoken out, you surely rate :), (do a search over at WWP if yu cannot find the link here).
the moar the merrier!

Best of luck, love, health, etc. in the real world (and welcome back!)

Ogs
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
welcome

Hi Andrew,
Welcome, and thanks for your story! Agreed that Jeff Hawkins is a great site, in fact it's my favorite. Any person in doubt about the church definitely needs to spend some time over there.
 
Hi Andrew

I'm Allen Stanfield. I was the ED of the Peoria Mission from 1984 to 1989.

I am the one who recruited Barry Cozhiar onto staff over 20 years ago. :ohmy:

I know Robin Hansas and Cat Savage and all the other guys from that time. And you are exactly right, they are some of the most sincere, most well-meaning people in the world.

Scientology attracted some of the best people on Earth.

Welcome to ESMB!

Hysterical, as it was Barry Cozhiar who recruited us on staff!

Robin was my boss for that 2 1/2 stint -- she was promoted to HES after Craig and Marcy Sargeant were recalled. The guy who took over as ED, Chad Lane is a former Peoria guy too, I think. Her son Matt is on the HES post now, and I believe she's in the HGC as a Class VI.

(I haven't used Scientologese in my everyday speech for the past three years or so. The previous paragraph with its "TLAs" ... it seems so ungainly now.)

I don't think I ever met Cat Savage. Heard much about her, though.
 
Hi and :welcome: to ESMB, Andrew! :)

I might know a Joyce Wallace. (??) Does she have a son?) And did she ever used to live in Miami, Fla? :unsure:

Michelle

I'm not sure that she has any kids. She was in the Sea Org, on the boat with Ron, etc. Lived in Alaska for a spell.

Joyce is the FSM behind those ads Celebrity Centre runs in Backstage: "How to Get the Part!" and the like. She was awarded "Elite FSM" status some years back for tricking ... I mean, selecting over a thousand people onto services. The wife and I spent many a night verifying those stats in the days leading up to the event, going over names down in 6C.

She brought my wife and I into her group to help "put in Standard Admin," and refused any attempt on our part to do so. A maddening woman to work for. In other words, par for the course in the Church of Scientology! (She even yelled at as a couple of times. Never punched us in the face, though. Guess that's reserved for the REALLY big thetans!)
 
Thanks for the warm welcomes!

Like I said, we never experienced any of the horrific stuff, just the ancillary evidences that such a climate exists.

-- Andrew
 

Anony-Moose

Patron
Hey "John Lyle". I never met you or Pam but I remember when Joyce recruited you two and how happy she was about it. I can't say in what capacity I knew Joyce (I apologize- I must stay in super incognito mode at all times) but I can say that I think she was quite the drama queen. She was one of those "OTs" that made you wonder what the point was, right? Typical middle-aged menopausal borderline hypochondriac woman carrying on about her health, fixated on her physical condition, crying about needing a session, yada yada yada. And this is someone who makes you want to spend thousands on a Bridge? Mostly, she lured people into CC with her free seminars- her famous admin scale seminars. And she had her "bird dogs" in Milton's school too. That was how she became power FSM and then elite FSM. Quite the racket she had going on there, right?

So what ever happened to her? I know you've been out for a while but any info more recent than 8 years ago would be nice. I'd be interested in hearing more of your experiences with her and CC. And what about Pam- didn't she end up becoming some kind of consultant? I definitely got the impression that you two were very nice people. Probably why you ended up getting out. Your blog comments from your original post were right-on. Welcome and hope you enjoy your stay here.

Moose
 

Tom of Helatrobus

Patron Meritorious
Hi Andrew,

I went was on staff at the st. louis org for a short while in the early 90´s before getting recruited to the SO. I didn´t last too long in LA. I´m sure you know the story, I thought I left because I was screwed up, but in reality the SO was screwed up. Anyhow, my story is one of the links in my signature.

I´m not sure if we would know the same people. I was in while the org was on Page Street before they moved to the ideal org.
 
Hey "John Lyle". I never met you or Pam but I remember when Joyce recruited you two and how happy she was about it. I can't say in what capacity I knew Joyce (I apologize- I must stay in super incognito mode at all times) but I can say that I think she was quite the drama queen. She was one of those "OTs" that made you wonder what the point was, right? Typical middle-aged menopausal borderline hypochondriac woman carrying on about her health, fixated on her physical condition, crying about needing a session, yada yada yada. And this is someone who makes you want to spend thousands on a Bridge? Mostly, she lured people into CC with her free seminars- her famous admin scale seminars. And she had her "bird dogs" in Milton's school too. That was how she became power FSM and then elite FSM. Quite the racket she had going on there, right?

So what ever happened to her? I know you've been out for a while but any info more recent than 8 years ago would be nice. I'd be interested in hearing more of your experiences with her and CC. And what about Pam- didn't she end up becoming some kind of consultant? I definitely got the impression that you two were very nice people. Probably why you ended up getting out. Your blog comments from your original post were right-on. Welcome and hope you enjoy your stay here.

Moose

Last I heard, Joyce is doing the same old shtick. Our falling out with her occurred shortly before we wandered off the grid, so I'm afraid I don't have any more recent news.

The joke about that "Elite" status is that they essentially counted the selectees twice! They allocated a hundred each to ten of those bird dogs, so they went up and accepted their pin or certificate or whatever. And then Joyce accepted her award for a thousand selectees. So whose production was it? Joyce Wallace's or the ten Power FSMs? I had a sneaking suspicion the events were all smoke and mirrors (never any hard numbers cited, always "HIGHEST EVER!!!") but that experience really ripped the veil off.

Those Admin Scale Seminars ... ugh. I spent countless Sundays sitting against the wall, working as Joyce's "assistant." Worse than that, I was on "Orientation" duty for the Wednesday Night seminars, sitting through the film over and over and over to provide some sort of ... I don't know, ethics presence? Nuts.
 
Top