France's supreme court reviewing Scientology's appeal

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Now you are just babbling. Just because you are WHOLLY ignorant of religion & history is no reason to to show your ignorance online.

Auto plonk for sub-20 IQ posting.



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Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
For those who didn't realize that the practice of extorting money from parishioners under threat of losing ones "eternity" was once a universal fact of life in Western civilization. Here is a quick primer on the subject...

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Roman_Catholic_Church_in_1500.htm

Everyone is familiar with the indulgences that drove Martin Luther to start the Reformation.

But even in its heyday, even at its greatest power and lowest moral level, Catholicism did not demand the entire of even a rich man's wealth. Sure they nickel and dimed their parishioners with Peter's Pence, and scammed the rich into establishing prayers "in perpetuity", and removing their sins through Simony. But even the Popes were smart enough not to kill the cow for its milk. No one went bankrupt.

And the monks who did the work of the curch actually lived rather well, in exchange for their vows. Contast that with Sea Org pay.

It's a matter of degree.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
You shouldn't hook those meters up to yourself. Doncha know?

Next Scientology will be justifying locking up Lisa McPherson because of The Inquisition. "They did it! They did it!" And seriously, this is the best argument they've got for why extortion is acceptable? Just ROFL!!
 

mnql1

Patron Meritorious
Translation of the updated version of a French article posted on September 4, 2013 on the website of the daily newspaper Libération:
La scientologie invoque la liberté religieuse devant la Cour de cassation
Scientology invokes religious freedom before the Court of Cassation

September 4, 2013
AFP

At the Court of Cassation today, the Church of Scientology vigorously contested the conviction of its two main French entities for "organized fraud," calling it a "violation of religious freedom."

Before the Criminal Chamber, the attorneys representing Scientology, which is classified as a cult in several French parliamentary reports but is considered a religion in the United States and in some European countries, raised many arguments in their attempt to annul the February 2, 2012 verdict of the Paris Court of Appeal.

This decision upheld the conviction of Scientology's two Parisian entities, the Scientology Celebrity Centre and its SEL bookshop, and their respective fines of 200,000 and 400,000 euros.

The Court of Appeal convicted five Scientologists who stood accused of exploiting the vulnerability of former recruits to extract large sums of money.

One the convicted Scientologists, Alain Rosenberg, the "de facto leader" of Scientology in Paris, and Sabine Jacquart, a former president of the Celebrity Centre, were handed a two-year suspended sentence and fined 30,000 euros for organized fraud.

"It is rare for a church to be called a criminal organization and be convicted on the grounds that the message it conveys is a fraud," Scientology attorney Louis Boré told the Court of Cassation today.

According to him, the Court of Appeal's decision "chooses between good and bad religions" and it is inappropriate for the court to "turn itself into an inquisition tribunal" and start differentiating "true believers" from "false believers."

"There is a campaign to discredit the Church of Scientology," he said, "but a religion is a cult that has succeeded."

Using comparisons with Islam, Judaism, and Christianity to make his points, with an occasional sprinkling of humor, Louis Boré argued that the electrometer, an expensive instrument that is supposed to measure "changes in a person's mind or state of mind," is "no stranger than a rosary or a kippa."

"No church is prosecuted on the grounds that the message it conveys is false," he added.

"What you have just said does not enter into the train of thought of a judge in a court of law," retorted Claire Waquet, an attorney representing the UNADFI [National Union of Associations for the Defense of Families and Individuals], a counter-cult organization that is contesting Scientology's appeal of the decision to include the UNADFI as a civil party.

"The issue before the Criminal Chamber is not to decide whether Scientology is or is not a religion," she said.

The trial and the conviction were based "solely on violations of criminal law," insisted the prosecutor, who argued for the dismissal of the appeal, except for a minor point, the allocation of damages to a civil party who withdrew from the case.

The judge's job is to defend "citizens who have become captive parishioners of organized fraudsters who shamelessly plunder people of their money using any and all means."

The defendants' lawyers also attacked many decisions made during the investigation and contested the conduct of the trial, from which the defendants and their lawyers walked out during the sixth day of hearings.

They also discussed the definition of medication in an attempt to overturn the convictions for the "illegal practice of pharmacy." After undergoing personality tests that in most cases give negative results, followers are obliged to take purification sessions and are prescribed vitamin treatments.

"There is a real violation of religious freedom," lamented Éric Roux, spokesman for Scientology in France, after today's hearing.

The Court of Cassation will hand down its decision on October 16.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Yep, one gets you more $. Just ask the Catholic Church. That's where El Ron learned the "give us money or face a destroyed eternity" meme from.

The % of people who are unaware of any history that happened before their own birth is staggeringly high these days.

As evidenced by the wtf and disagrees with your post. Google "indulgences" people. The Protestant Reformation didn't come out of a vacuum.

Fortunately, that hadn't been done by any religion for about 400-500 years, until LRH Started Scientology.
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
As evidenced by the wtf and disagrees with your post. Google "indulgences" people. The Protestant Reformation didn't come out of a vacuum.

Fortunately, that hadn't been done by any religion for about 400-500 years, until LRH Started Scientology.

Thanks. I already posted a brief synopsis of the subject on this thread. Unfortunately, the people who keep clicking wtf, etc. are demonstrably not literate enough to read it... :no: OR, think that those historic facts are make believe...
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
As evidenced by the wtf and disagrees with your post. Google "indulgences" people. The Protestant Reformation didn't come out of a vacuum.

Fortunately, that hadn't been done by any religion for about 400-500 years, until LRH Started Scientology.

Scientology: nearly making it to the 17th century but still missing....

Edit: "Oooooh, it's okay for us to fairgame people because what of the people who used to burn witches? What of them? Why does nobody bring up the Puritans, hmmm? Riddle us that! And what of the Egyptian priests? Look what they did! Look at them! Look everywhere else, talk about anyone else, just leave us alooooone and let us keep exorting money from people. Just shut up and go awayyyyyy!"

Edit to the edit: "And what of the Aztecy priests? They used to rip people's hearts out and stuff. We just lock them up and let them die of thirst."
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Thanks. I already posted a brief synopsis of the subject on this thread. Unfortunately, the people who keep clicking wtf, etc. are demonstrably not literate enough to read it... :no: OR, think that those historic facts are make believe...

Get with the 21st century, troll.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Catholic Church sent out Freeloader Bills to former workers in the Church?

I just heard Martin Luther shout out "96! 96! 96!"

Rd00
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Naw, torture was more their style. Depending on the era of course. Did you even bother to read any of the data posted about that Church?????

Right... overboarding and freeloader bills are so much more humane than flaying someone alive. :biggrin:
 
Degraded Being, you don't know the history of the Catholic church?

Not much. But I do know the history of the scientology cult, and I do know what is happening now in the scientology cult and I know that the "Church of Scientology" has to answer for itself now, in France, and it is not about lame rhetorical distraction stunts.

BTW, if their argument is that "they did it, so what's wrong with us doing it?"
and they were to win, they could then introduce burning at the stake for those who want to leave the SO.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Report from Jonny Jacobsen on The Underground Bunker about the hearing conducted by the French Cour de Cassation includes...

Excerpts:

Scientology’s lawyers argued today in France’s highest court that they did not get a fair trial on appeal, because when the defendants walked out of the proceedings half-way through, the appeal court did not stop proceedings to get them new lawyers.

Back in 2009, a Paris court convicted two Scientology organisations of organised fraud; a number of Scientology staffers were also convicted on charges ranging from fraud to the illegal practice of pharmacy.


The fraud-related charges were focused on the use of the Personality Test and the use of hard-sell techniques to get ever greater sums of money out of members.


The illegal practice of pharmacy convictions were over the administration of the controversial Purification Rundown progamme, a core element of the Narconon programme.


As soon as the appeal court confirmed the convictions in February 2012, Scientology’s lawyers lodged appeals with the Cour de Cassation.

Here's the link to The Underground Bunker for more information/details: http://tonyortega.org/2013/09/04/ou...-scientology-appeal-in-frances-highest-court/

The Cour de Cassation is expected to render its ruling on the above matter on October 16, 2013.

JB
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Naw, torture was more their style. Depending on the era of course. Did you even bother to read any of the data posted about that Church?????

What that website covers I learned in Sociology class when we covered Religion as a Sociological Institution.

But that website missed something I learned from my Sociology professor in Sociology class.

One could even pay the church to ensure that a family tmember hat had already died and had questionable status in the afterlife, per the priests, and sitting in a purgatorial state, could be helped along out of purgatory and through the golden gates by help from family.

But then again you probably knew that and know yourself that the website you pointed out was missing this valuable piece of information.

And you also probably know that what the Catholic Church was doing then is neither here nor there and nothing to do with what the Catholic Church does today.

If the Church of Scientlogy had a strict 10% tithe rule like some of the strigent religions I posit that they would actually have more than the 55,000, 8 million on the average, that they purport to have now. Hell their staff members might actually have a paycheck and there might actually be toilet paper in the orgs.

Rd00
 
"Name me one church that does not ask its parishioners for money," said Louis Boré, the attorney representing Scientology before the Court of Cassation, responding to France Presse. The lawyer cited Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees freedom of religion.

Show me another church that encourages people to mortgage their homes, empty out their retirement accoutns, get future will money upfront, max out credit cards, borrow money from Aunt Zelda.

Rd00

puh-leeze...

you must be terribly innocent

this sort of thing has been common in the relgion industry since time immemorial

my best pal's paternal grandmother was a very remarkable and prosperous businesswoman. sh swore all the way to her deathbed the RCC had swindled her out of some real estate in montreal by forging her signature. she went to court over it when it happened and the judge ruled in favor of the RCC. yeah. the judge was a catholic and no doubt a personal friend of many top RCC administrators - they run the church, not the priests. all the way to the vatican. the holy see raised it's postal rates once and someone went to the pope to complain and his eminence said "what do you want me to do? i'm just the pope" - and they said, "look we need the money and she's got plenty..."
 
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