Free Heber!!

[JBTrendy]

Good one Thrak

While we're freeing people and things:

L. Ron Hubbard - Sober and drug free since January 24, 1986

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Regardless, I think anyone should be helped up out of the kinds of living conditions the people in the hole are in, no matter how evil they are. If you think they deserve that, you become complicit.

I am wondering if the reason some of my posts ruffled so many feathers on this thread is that word....... DESERVE.

Let me illustrate a little.

* A person who parties too much DESERVES a hangover. (i.e. it is the natural consequence of his actions and therefore appropriate that he feels physical and mental discomfort. It's part of the human signaling mechanism to warn of toxicity levels that are antipathetic to health)

* A person who gambles his paychecks away in a casino DESERVES to have his car repossessed for being long in default. (i.e. his irresponsible treatment of his money triggers the loss of his automobile, an event that he sorely merits--and which will actually help him in the long run).

* A person who chronically is late to work as an emergency room technician DESERVES to be fired (i.e. to not endanger human life).​

Now Heber is where he is because he used his power and intelligence to help build the crazy cult trap that he became ensnared in. He DESERVES to be caught in a cruel human rights violating trap because that is the natural order of what happens when you mess around with traps. I didn't make it up or will it to happen. Heber gets the medals and all the praise for goofing the floof on that one.

I do not wish him to be either IN or OUT OF the trap. That is his decision. Some folks like crazy and oppressive relationships, groups or jobs.

My biggest single "cog" during/after leaving Scientology was that I am not a planet saver nor a universe salvager. It simply is not my role to "save" people. I do it when i can and go out of my way to try and help if I think I can make a difference.

But, I don't owe my life to anyone who has made horrific decisions that got them into deep shit, like Heber.

I am not complicit in his screw up. Scientology teachings would disagree and say that I am fully "responsible" for everything.

Whether that is true or not, I am happy to be an irresponsible, complicit guy rather than an unhappy guy who is forced to be a planet saver.

Being assigned to planetary salvage, I find, is a total buzz killer.

 

[Div6]

*snip*
Scientology teachings would disagree and say that I am fully "responsible" for everything.

Whether that is true or not, I am happy to be an irresponsible, complicit guy rather than an unhappy guy who is forced to be a planet saver.

Being assigned to planetary salvage, I find, is a total buzz killer.

Which ones?

Advanced Procedures and Axioms had this to say about it: "Whatever
occurs to one is actually his own responsibility, as the student will realize
as soon as he re-evaluates the factors involved and as soon as he sees the
enormous effect of this process."

That is a far cry from being totally responsible for everything everywhere.
In fact, you CAN'T be responsible for someone else according to this, unless it is agreed to. Which could lead to an interesting discussion about whether it is really possible for another to "die for ones sins"....

but that might be a buzz killer too.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Which ones?

Advanced Procedures and Axioms had this to say about it: "Whatever
occurs to one is actually his own responsibility, as the student will realize
as soon as he re-evaluates the factors involved and as soon as he sees the
enormous effect of this process."

That is a far cry from being totally responsible for everything everywhere.

Not so. Look in the Tech Dictionary, definition of "Responsibility":

RESPONSIBILITY, 1. the ability and willingness to assume the status of full source and cause for all efforts and counter-efforts on all dynamics. (AP&A, p. 57)

I'm not commenting on how true it is.

On second thoughts, I will make such a comment. Some months ago I tried to get some charge off, i.e. *any* charge off, on me being responsible for anything that I wasn't directly involved in. I spent about five minutes poking around, searching the ether so to speak, and I couldn't get one slightest bit of charge off on anything that I hadn't obviously contributed to with my obvious actions. I remembered (rightly or wrongly) Hubbard saying that his all-encompassing definition of responsibility had come out of his auditing research, i.e., it was a definition that was useful in auditing, whatever its theoretical implications. So I thought I would check it out in auditing.

My considered opinion: load of bollocks, both theoretically and as an "auditing" truth.

Paul

 

[Div6]

Not so. Look in the Tech Dictionary, definition of "Responsibility":

RESPONSIBILITY, 1. the ability and willingness to assume the status of full source and cause for all efforts and counter-efforts on all dynamics. (AP&A, p. 57)

I'm not commenting on how true it is.

Paul

I am so glad you are willing and able to take responsibility for me! May I have that $1,000,000 now please?

 

[HCObringOrder?]

From my view, Carmel has said it with more class.
Heber has not only made his bed, he chopped down the tree, nailed the bed with a thousand interviews and lies, wove the sheets of fabrications and stuffed the pillow with his own brains.
One thing that Scientology did teach me that has stayed with me.
There is a point where a human being can change into an animal that will bite for no reason at all.
Then there is a point where that animal changes into an imitation of humans for the purpose of finding humans to bite.

For me hardened criminals and drug lords are past the 2nd point above.
As is Heber and Lil DM.

You can "free" Heber and he will turn around and have you for a snack!
Then return back to the place that spawned him.

 

[Zinjifar]

A couple of points as to my own view of 'Save Heber!':

I am in favor of removing every person in the captivity of Scientology from that captivity.

I'm especially in favor of eliminating the captivity of the aged and infirm and people being held captive against their will. (note; I'm also in favor of ending the captivity of those held by their own will, but, not as urgently)

I'm opposed to any attempt to revise history or rehabilitate the 'reputation' of any of those captives, even if it's done with the supposed 'good intention' of rallying the troops, marketing a movement for 'freedom' or serve as a justification for any cynical or naive 'new organization'.

I will not be a part of any 'movement' organized by 'leaders' whose motives and methods are unclear or in opposition to my own.

In some rare circumstances I might well support some groups or individuals in specific actions without thereby implying my support for their program as a whole. Example; if Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder or Heber call for a criminal investigation of the 'Church' of Scientology and/or its officers and management I would support that call, without implying my support for them as individuals or their other agenda.

Zinj

 

[Alanzo]

It is illegal for any group to kidnap and imprison its members.

Period.

 

[ReactiveMime]

It is illegal for any group to kidnap and imprison its members.

Period.

Hear, hear.

Just because some disagree with his religion and allegiances, doesn't mean that a blind eye can be turned to human trafficking, suffering and imprisonment.

John Adams defended those British Soldiers because it was the right thing to do, not because he agreed or disagreed with the politics of their commanding officers.

 

[AnonKat]

Albert Schweitzer:

"The fundamental rights of [humanity] are, first: the right of habitation; second, the right to move freely; third, the right to the soil and subsoil, and to the use of it; fourth, the right of freedom of labor and of exchange; fifth, the right to justice; sixth, the right to live within a natural national organization; and seventh, the right to education."

 

[Carmel]

It is illegal for any group to kidnap and imprison its members.

Period.

Of course it is. It is abhorrent to all of us. No argument there.

However, when it comes to a campaign to "save" one of the few who put that group there in the first place, taking precedence over the campaign to save others who didn't, it's a different story.

 

[AnonKat]

Of course it is. It is abhorrent to all of us. No argument there.

However, when it comes to a campaign to "save" one of the few who put that group there in the first place, taking precedence over the campaign to save others who didn't, it's a different story.

Maybe a parralell campaign can be launched named Save the Children

 

[Zinjifar]

I think it's fair to say that 'Heber' is being 'saved' by some as a poster boy/rallying point and opportunity to exploitation of what *some* Scientologists see as his 'Opinion Leader' position.

Does that sound cynical? Sure it does.

Yes, because of his 'celebrity' he's more valuable to people with an agenda.

Zinj

 

[AnonKat]

I think it's fair to say that 'Heber' is being 'saved' by some as a poster boy/rallying point and opportunity to exploitation of what *some* Scientologists see as his 'Opinion Leader' position.

Does that sound cynical? Sure it does.

Yes, because of his 'celebrity' he's more valuable to people with an agenda.

Zinj

of course and that is why it will create movement as oposed to no movement.

 

[Smilla]

I'm pretty sure that Heber thinks that DM is saving him from you.

 

[AnonKat]

I'm pretty sure that Heber thinks that DM is saving him from you.

lol

 

[Smilla]

lol

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I'm pretty sure that Heber thinks that DM is saving him from you.

That post should be brilliant enough to give any "FREE HEBER" hand-wringers the Heeber Jeebies!

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

That post should be brilliant enough to give any "FREE HEBER" hand-wringers the Heeber Jeebies!

Aughtta scare the behebers outta 'em!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

It is illegal for any group to kidnap and imprison its members.

Period.

Usually.

But, sometimes not....

SCENARIO: A neighbor of yours hears anguished screams coming from your house. Recent news of home invasions sets them on edge and they dial 911 in case you are in trouble.

Police arrive and nobody answers. They bust in and search your house at gunpoint, room by room.

They find you, in the bedroom, bound and gagged and being tortured with whips by a dominatrix dressed in a leather Sea Org uniform.

After being untied, you explain to the cops that it was just a little role-playing Bondage & Discipline between two consenting thetans...and that you do it for the pleasure of reminding yourself that you are out of Scientology.

The cops leave because you were not kidnapped and imprisoned.

Consenting is the key word.

It will be no surprise if Heber knows some Scientology synonyms for that term.