Freewinds courses being moved to Flag.

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi, TI,

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it, too.

But I do think some people have the idea that it's ok for them to talk to Scn'ists that way (and I am NOT referring to anyone and everyone who expresses disagreement with Scn in their posts. I'm referring to those who try to impose their own views on Scn'ists in some highly personalized commentary and I'm thinking of some posts I've seen on a.r.s. and OCMB, particularly.) but that it is not ever ok for the Scn'ist to answer back.

I think that tact and give and take are owed when the discussion is on topic and polite, though, but that's a different story.


People are generally afraid of the occult because they have been the negative effect of it.

The only thing they can do sometimes is distance themselves from it by making nothing out of it. They think that makes it go away. It doesn't.
Mystery, confusion, fear are the basis of this. I was involved with many different avenues of the occult before Scientology, and so was Hubbard.
There was a woman recently in court trying to get the Harry Potter books banned from the school library.

I have never turned against people who were not involved in Scientology or who were involved in other practices. Exploration is healthy. But I am accustomed to seeing the protests about the supernatural.

I don't think people mean to be rude and abusive, it is just an effort to withdraw or stop the supernatural and push it away from themselves.

Those are the people that feel safe living in the box.

And they have a right to the security that brings to them.

It's location location location.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I have noticed some people upon leaving the Church become "monitors".

They feel compelled to monitor other people's relationship with the church or the tech or themselves.

It's just a hat they put on start to wear.

If they are happy being monitors they have the right.

There are a lot of hall monitors on these forums.

Monitoring in the hall of mirrors.

They keep the place busy and if one knows where they are going anyway one can just scoot around them.

They really are there to monitor people who are lost or confused and need directions and feel they are lending a good service, so the intention is good.

Do you believe Hubbard when he wrote that his second wife Sara was a Russian secret agent, whose real name was Sara Komkosadamanov?

She is on the list of Hubbard's enemies - the partial list of which you noted earlier.

Just curious.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
People are generally afraid of the occult because they have been the negative effect of it.

The only thing they can do sometimes is distance themselves from it by making nothing out of it. They think that makes it go away. It doesn't.
Mystery, confusion, fear are the basis of this. I was involved with many different avenues of the occult before Scientology, and so was Hubbard.
There was a woman recently in court trying to get the Harry Potter books banned from the school library.

I have never turned against people who were not involved in Scientology or who were involved in other practices. Exploration is healthy. But I am accustomed to seeing the protests about the supernatural.

I don't think people mean to be rude and abusive, it is just an effort to withdraw or stop the supernatural and push it away from themselves.

Those are the people that feel safe living in the box.

And they have a right to the security that brings to them.

It's location location location.

TI -

I think you are an intelligent, creative and lovely person. At least that's what I have picked up from your posts.

Take for instance, your last line above - that is really funny. It shows clearly that you are not a robot of any kind. So I hope you don't think that I think that about you, or that I belittle you in any way.

However, I have found that there are thought-habits that are formed through practicing upper level stuff from Scientology which trap a person's attention out of the real world, and into the Hubbard-defined "theta-universe".

Their attention can get stuck there. They can go batty.

As a result, their effectiveness at real life diminishes. They are thinking about who they were last lifetime, more than what needs to be done to balance the checkbook. They look for data from the "Time track" to solve problems with rather than real facts from the here and now.

This is not good living. This is not even happiness. This is delusion.

Scientology does create that. I've seen it. And so have you.

I'm here to say it when I see it.

And yes, I think it's helpful of me to do so.

You can think whatever you like, and live however you wish to live. My observations never assume that you must do anything with them.

I am only saying it when I see it. Others read here, too. It's good that someone point these things out as alternatives for those who may have been sucked into the theta universe.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
And TI -

I have no protest with the supernatural. I never have, and I never will.

I would have never become interested in Scientology at all if I had.

That old Hubbard make-wrong of people who point out the battiness in Scientology won't work here.

You can try another one, if you like.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
And TI -

I have no protest with the supernatural. I never have, and I never will.

I would have never become interested in Scientology at all if I had.

That old Hubbard make-wrong of people who point out the battiness in Scientology won't work here.

You can try another one, if you like.

I am not in a games condition with you Alanzo.

It is obvious that you are angry about certain violations upon yourself and you are on a protest read about it. That is your life that you are sharing with us and I thank you for sharing. As far as people pointing out outpoints they see I think that is healthy and many people are here to listen, not fight defend or judge.

I said it before and I'll say it again. When people say they had no gain in Scientology I believe them. That is between Scientology and them, not me and them. I am not here complaining about anybody or anything in case you haven't noticed. I understand dissappointments and objections very well. But I don't even object to any of it anymore. Most of it is an others to others flow I am curious about. And I am not protesting here about other people protesting. This is mostly idle chat for me. I've been kicked off a lot of lists because I do not commit to the common rule of thumb. On the last list I was on I was accused for the most part of destroying the tech of Scientology because I mentioned the word MAGICK. I get it that other people are all heated up and passionate about getting their opinions hear seriously. I can't take anything very seriously including myself. And just so you know, I am not anyone important and the people that know me personally do not take me seriously at all.

I more or less am viewed as the entertainer that has been hit with a few tomatoes by the majority while one or two sit through the song and dance.

I like reading your posts very much and I appreciate your passion about things. I imagine you as somebody who has walked many paths of courage and purpose.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
It is his reality that he is angry and protesting that I am responding to.

It is him that has said he is pissed and angry about this or that, go back and read his posts.

I am not inventing here or evaluating.

I am saying I hear him.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
And TI -

I have no protest with the supernatural. I never have, and I never will.

I would have never become interested in Scientology at all if I had.

That old Hubbard make-wrong of people who point out the battiness in Scientology won't work here.

You can try another one, if you like.

Also, it may be convenient to box me into the catagory of a HUBBARD SCIENTOLOGIST and assume I have the same culture attributes.

But I am NOT a Scientologist.

I am Druid.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I am not in a games condition with you Alanzo.

It is obvious that you are angry about certain violations upon yourself and you are on a protest read about it. That is your life that you are sharing with us and I thank you for sharing. As far as people pointing out outpoints they see I think that is healthy and many people are here to listen, not fight defend or judge.

I said it before and I'll say it again. When people say they had no gain in Scientology I believe them. That is between Scientology and them, not me and them. I am not here complaining about anybody or anything in case you haven't noticed. I understand dissappointments and objections very well. But I don't even object to any of it anymore. Most of it is an others to others flow I am curious about. And I am not protesting here about other people protesting. This is mostly idle chat for me. I've been kicked off a lot of lists because I do not commit to the common rule of thumb. On the last list I was on I was accused for the most part of destroying the tech of Scientology because I mentioned the word MAGICK. I get it that other people are all heated up and passionate about getting their opinions hear seriously. I can't take anything very seriously including myself. And just so you know, I am not anyone important and the people that know me personally do not take me seriously at all.

I more or less am viewed as the entertainer that has been hit with a few tomatoes by the majority while one or two sit through the song and dance.

I like reading your posts very much and I appreciate your passion about things. I imagine you as somebody who has walked many paths of courage and purpose.

Well, don't let your imagination run away with you! :)

I just want to say that I have never said that I have gotten no gain from Scientology. Often, Scientologists will box up those who disagree with them into the pre-made cartons Hubbard gave them. Those cartons were not made to showcase the free exchange of ideas and intellectual honesty. They were made to cover over, discredit, and silence people whose ideas threatened Hubbard's income.

I think that sometimes I am too harsh with people. Sometimes, when I write posts pointing out things that I think are important for them and others to inspect, they get hurt. But I think it is only temporary, and if I'm wrong, then good.

And if I'm right, then good.

Yes, I am disappointed by Scientology. It did not turn out to be the group I thought I was joining. And then it turned out not to be the philosophy I thought I had adopted.

But for me, for the time I joined, it was a step up.

I do not believe, in any way any longer, that Scientology would be a step up for the larger society, though.

So that is me and Scientology:

1. I am not against the supernatural, nor am I afraid of it. Neither am I a "brain-theory boy".

2. I did get gains from Scientology. It helped me to get off of drugs and provided a self-discipline and a way of looking at life that helped me greatly at a time when I needed that help.

And, let me also say that I fully paid for that help with 7.5 years of indentured staff slavery, and tens of thousand of dollars in credit card debt.

Since then though, I have graduated from a crashing illogic that crippled my ability to be effective at moving forward in life, to discern the true causes of things, and which formed the walls of a trap that Scientology laid for me, and for anyone else who believed it was the key to one's own, and everyone else's, freedom and immortality.

So I write stuff that tries to point that out. Maybe to me, maybe to others who may be helped by it.

Otherwise, I really like you, TI. You're a kick!

And - just so you know - until you can tell me what I have on top of my computer monitor in my home office, then I will continue to emphasize my immediate life, rather than some Hubbard-defined ThetaWorld where my life is distracted and my pockets are emptied.
 
Last edited:

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Also, it may be convenient to box me into the catagory of a HUBBARD SCIENTOLOGIST and assume I have the same culture attributes.

But I am NOT a Scientologist.

I am Druid.

OH!!!

Well that's different!

I'll have to study some on the Druids then.

Goody! I love studying the esoteric and ethereal. Do you have any founding texts which I can peruse?
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
OH!!!

Well that's different!

I'll have to study some on the Druids then.

Goody! I love studying the esoteric and ethereal. Do you have any founding texts which I can peruse?

There are no texts.

And druids cannot be studied.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Alanzo,

I am glad to hear you did profit somehow in your dance with Scientology.

There are a lot of dissastisfied customers out here and despite how the Church explains it, the fact that people are not made happy is a blatant indicator that the Church didn't deliver in one way or another to those people.
And the negative feedback is volumous.

Somehow I know this is all going to someplace good in the final chapter. I wish I could transfer my trust in destiny to you. One day you will look back from a very good place and know it was all for a good reason and you will not regret any of it. The world in it's own way will take of you, if you permit it. The world in it's own way has been taking care of you, your story in all of this is not over.

But you are on your way to higher ground and once you have started that march, there really is no turning back. Thetans really cannot be suppressed. Look at the world we live in and how society has grown in culture, knowledge, sanity , freedoms, and justice. From the dinosaurs forward people have lifted themselves up. The world is lifting you. You are lifting the world.

This does not justify the betrayals put on you by people you place your trust into. They have their own kharma to work through. It is easy to get sucked into other people's motivator flows. And the Church has it's own going on for sure.

Be glad you are not there, through whatever circumstances .

Have you considered it was your good luck, or have you decided all the way it was your misfortune? Consider the other possibilites. Where you would be now and what your life would be and what your freedom's and option's would be if you were still there and everything were "hunky dory".

Other than that, Druids do not recruit so I don't think going to stone whatever would do anything. People are Druids or they are not. If they are they know they are, no matter what identity form they take on. You are not a Druid then, and will not become one either.

I wish you all best.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Other than that, Druids do not recruit so I don't think going to stone whatever would do anything. People are Druids or they are not. If they are they know they are, no matter what identity form they take on. You are not a Druid then, and will not become one either.

I wish you all best.

What's your position on burying live virgins under oak trees?

Zinj
 

Veda

Sponsor
Also, it may be convenient to box me into the catagory of a HUBBARD SCIENTOLOGIST and assume I have the same culture attributes.

But I am NOT a Scientologist.

I am Druid.

One of the things that's been floating around the "Freezone" for years is that "Ron was (is) a Druid."

This is regarded as "inside information."

It's super-hip to "be a Druid." Almost like being related to Ron himself, and a member of his own personal secret club.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
... Druids do not recruit so I don't think going to stone whatever would do anything. People are Druids or they are not. If they are they know they are, no matter what identity form they take on. You are not a Druid then, and will not become one either.

I wish you all best.

From wikipedia on Druids:

"In Celtic polytheism the word druid denotes the priestly class in ancient Celtic societies, which existed through much of Western Europe north of the Alps and in the British Isles until they were supplanted by Roman government and, later, Christianity. Druidic practices were part of the culture of all the tribal peoples called "Keltoi" and "Galatai" by Greeks and "Celtae" and "Galli" by Romans, which evolved into modern English "Celtic" and "Gaulish". They combined the duties of priest, arbitrator, healer, scholar, and magistrate. ...

"The Druids were polytheists, but also revered elements of nature[2], such as the sun, the moon, and the stars, looking to them for "signs and seasons". They also venerated other natural elements, such as the oak, certain groves of trees, tops of hills, streams, lakes and even plants, especially mistletoe and holly. Fire was regarded as a symbol of several divinities and was associated with the sun and cleansing. Their calendar year was governed by the lunar, solar, vegetative and herding cycles. The four main holidays include Imbolc (Imbolg) to denote the first signs of spring, Beltane (Beltain) to recognize the fullness of life after spring, Lughnasadh to celebrate the ripening of first fruits and the many-skilled deity Lugh, and Samhain to recognize the end of harvest and the lowering of the barrier between the world of the living and that of the dead. The timing for these four festivals would have been determined by the presence of a full moon and the seasonal changes in the natural world. Imbolc would thus be celebrated at a full moon roughly halfway between the winter solstice and the vernal equinox, Beltane between the vernal equinox and the summer solstice, Lughnasadh between the summer solstice and the autumnal equinox, and Samhain between the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice. This is contrary to popular "New Age" beliefs about Druidism that celebrate a given holiday according to the Julian calendar, which of course did not exist at the time of the formulation of these holidays. In modern times, Imbolc has been transformed into Groundhog Day, elements of Beltane have been absorbed into Easter, and Samhain has become Halloween (or All Hallows' Eve and All Saint's Day). Modern attempts at reconstructing or reinventing Druidism are called Neo-druidism.

Etymology

The etymology given by the editors of the American Heritage Dictionary (4th Ed.), based on Pokorny's Indo-germanisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch, is as follows: Druid comes to English from Latin druides (pronounced /dru'i.des/), which is the same as the term used by Ancient Greek writers, the first to discuss the Celts: Δρυίδης[3] (Druides), associated by folk etymology with drus (δρύς, pronounced /drys/ meaning "oak tree") and -ides (-ιδης meaning "the son of" as per Aristides). The Latin and Greek terms trace via Proto-Celtic *druwid (also reconstructed as *druwis and *druwids) to the Proto-Indo-European roots *deru- and *weid-.
*deru- [4] is reconstructed as meaning "to be firm, solid, steadfast". Thus, the word acquired specialised senses meaning "wood", "tree", and things made from or analogised to trees and wood. Other modern words (here, in their English forms) that trace to deru include: tree, truce, true/truth, troth/betroth, trust, tryst, tray, trough, trim, tar, durum, duress, endure, drupe, dryad, dendrite, philodendron, and deodar.
*weid- [5] is reconstructed as meaning "to see" and, by extension and figurative use, also refers to seers, wisdom, and knowledge - especially secret knowledge or wisdom that requires a kind of deeper sight (or "second sight") to ascertain. Other modern words (again, in their English forms) that trace to weid include: twit, guide, guise, wise/wisdom, wit, witenagemot (the "wit" portion), kaleidoscope (the "eid" portion), view, visa, visage, vision, review, revise, improvise, supervise, history/story, and veda.
Greek and Latin "druides" bear comparison with Old Irish druídecht (pron. /'driː.ðʲext/), which yields Modern Irish draoiocht (pron. /'driː.oxt/), "magic." Welsh dryw (/drɨu/ meaning seer) may be cognate.
The Modern Irish for Druid is drúa (/'druːə/), from Old Irish druí (/druiː/); which also produced Irish draoi (/'driː/), "magician" and Modern Gaelic druidh (/drij/), meaning "enchanter" and draoidh (/drɰːj/), "magician."
Some research done on the ancient Indian scripture Rig Veda,(http://www.bharatvani.org/books/rig/) suggests a close parallel between the Druids and the Druhyus referred therein.[citation needed] This may represent a common Proto-Indo-European religious heritage for the tradition.

...History

From what little we know of late Druidic practice, it appears deeply traditional and conservative, in the sense that Druids were conserving repositories of culture and lore. It is impossible now to judge whether this continuity had deep historical roots and originated in the social transformations of the late La Tène culture, or whether there had been a discontinuity and a Druidic religious innovation.


Our historical knowledge of Druids is very limited. Druidic lore consisted of a large number of verses learned by heart and it has been claimed that twenty years were required to complete the course of study. There was a very advanced Druidic teaching centre on Anglesey (Ynys Môn) centred on magical lakes and Druids went there from all over Europe to learn their secrets, but what was taught there, or at other centres, is conjecture. Of the Druids' oral literature (sacred songs, formulas for prayers and incantations, rules of divination and magic) not one verse has survived, even in translation, nor is there even a legend that can be called purely Druidic, without a Roman and/or Christian overlay or interpretation.

... Early Druids in Britain and Ireland

The story of Vortigern as reported by Nennius provides one of the very few glimpses of Druidic survival in Britain after the Roman conquest: unfortunately, Nennius is noted for mixing fact and legend in such a way that it is now impossible to know the truth behind his text. For what it is worth, he asserts that, after being excommunicated by Germanus, the British leader Vortigern invited twelve Druids to assist him.
In Irish literature, the Druids are frequently (and reliably) mentioned, and their functions in the island seem to correspond fairly well to those they performed in Gaul (the Modern Irish word for "magic", draíocht, derives from Old Irish druídecht).
Druidic sites


Hill of Tara in County Meath, Ireland, legendary seat of the High Kings.


Sites associated with Druidry include:The association of Druids with Stonehenge was hypothesized in the sixteenth century in attempts to explain the mysteries of Stonehenge, a prehistoric monument that was abandoned long before any Druids came to Britain. There is no evidence whatsoever that it was ever used by authentic Druids in ancient times. Nevertheless, it has become an important site for modern movements calling themselves druidic.

...The Druidic Revival


In the 18th century, England and Wales experienced a revival of interest in the Druids, inspired by the antiquaries John Aubrey, John Toland and William Stukeley. The poet William Blake was involved in the revival and may have been an Archdruid; the Ancient Druid Order, which existed from 1717 until it split into two groups in 1964, never used the title "Archdruid" for any member, but credited Blake as having been its Chosen Chief from 1799 to 1827.
John Aubrey was the first modern writer to connect Stonehenge and other megalithic monuments with Druidry, a misconception that shaped ideas of Druidry during much of the 19th century. Some modern Druidry enthusiasts claim Aubrey was an archdruid in possession of an uninterrupted tradition of Druidic knowledge, even though Aubrey, an uninhibited collector of lore and gossip, never entered a corroborating word in his voluminous surviving notebooks. John Toland was fascinated by Aubrey's Stonehenge theories, and wrote his own book about the monument without crediting Aubrey. Toland founded the Ancient Druid Order in London in 1717.
Druids began to figure widely in popular culture with the first advent of Romanticism. Chateaubriand's novel Les Martyrs (1809) narrated the doomed love of a Druid priestess and a Roman soldier; though Chateaubriand's theme was the triumph of Christianity over pagan Druids, the setting was to continue to bear fruit. Opera provides a barometer of well-informed popular European culture in the early 19th century: in 1817 Giovanni Pacini brought Druids to the stage in Trieste with an opera to a libretto by Felice Romani about a Druid priestess, La Sacerdotessa d'Irminsul ("The Priestess of Irminsul"). The most famous Druidic opera,Bellini's Norma was a fiasco at La Scala, when it premiered the day after Christmas, 1831, but in 1833 it was a hit in London. For its libretto Felice Romani reused some of the pseudo-Druidical background of La Sacerdotessa to provide color to a standard theatrical conflict of love and duty that was related to Medea, as it had recently been recast for a popular Parisian play by Alexandre Soumet: the diva of Norma's hit aria, "Casta Diva", is the moon goddess, being worshipped in the "grove of the Irmin statue".

In the 19th century, some dubious figures arose with outlandish claims and forged documents they claimed were historical. A central figure in this Druidic reinvention, inspired by Henry Hurle, is Edward Williams, better known as Iolo Morganwg. His writings, published posthumously as The Iolo Manuscripts (1849) and Barddas (1862), are not considered credible by contemporary Druidic movements because it has become impossible to distinguish Williams' inventions from the genuine material. Williams claimed to have collected ancient knowledge in a "Gorsedd of Bards of the Isles of Britain" he had organized. Many scholars deem part or all of Williams's work to be fabrication, and purportedly many of the documents are of his own fabrication, but a large portion of the work has indeed been collected from meso-pagan sources dating from as far back as 600 A.D. Regardless, it has become impossible to separate the original source material from the fabricated work, and the documents are considered irrelevant by most serious scholars.

An unfortunate result of the reinvention, which took place, ironically, just as modern archaeological and historical methods were being developed, is that it has shaped public perceptions of historical Druidry and continues to shape some modern forms of it. The British Museum website is suitably blunt:

"Modern Druids have no direct connection to the Druids of the Iron Age. Many of our popular ideas about the Druids are based on the misunderstandings and misconceptions of scholars 200 years ago. These ideas have been superseded by later study and discoveries."
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Alanzo, as I said, there are no texts and Druids cannot be studied.

Everything is word of mouth and then, knowledge travels through the elements.

You will never find anything in text beyond imaginings and folklore and vague reports with no real information to pass forward.

That is because Druids do not deal in words.

This is a seperate dimension.

You can research for all of one week all that is known or imagined and still know nothing at all about it. It's just a seperate culture.

That is all.

Druids are mathematicians collecting information and knowledge.

None is cast off as unimportant.

Every symbol counts in the final sum.

I am not on any side.

I am only a reporter and I am granted complete asylum in every war as a mere reporter.

I hope you can honor my culture and grant me access here without further suspicions or interrogations.

I mean you no harm at all.
 
Last edited:
Top