Freezone Post-Scientology auditor Dexter Gelfand on Psychiatric Medications

[Sidney18511]

I went to the same high school with Dexter. He is one year older then me, so that would make him 61.

 

[Gib]

I believe he's 61. I always feel vaguely envious of men who don't suffer from male pattern baldness.

Paul

There's always "America Hustle" hair tech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znbOM3Sud98

 

[George Layton]

I spoke to Dexter yesterday as I felt he should see your comments.
He'd already seen them.

The situation is that his clients psychiatrist monitors and adjusts
the meds, Dexter just does the talk therapy. This regime is working very well.

This seems a far better scenario than the practice of CO$. There if
someone has had drugs or any treatment they are forbidden any
Scn therapy. This is taken to an extreme, for example someone I know
who had had auditing up to clear was suddenly forbidden further
auditing as it was discovered that for one week in their school years she
took a certain med. There were no problems with her auditing history.

Further CO$ has for some time avowed and tried to destroy
psychiatry with no thought of how to help those who have needed such help.

Yeah, Dexter told Terril everything is fine so Udarnik, your facts are pretty much meaningless and no harm will come to anyone Dexter provides medical advice for. In fact Dexter says it's helping people so there you have it.

(a perfect example of " You don't know what you don't know, but you think you know how to know. " at work )

 

[Victoria]

Scientologists are the physical embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

Scientologists are the physical embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Yeah!

And the Commodore, COB and the rest of their fanatical OSA goons are the embodiment of the Freddy-Kruger effect.

 

[Terril park]

Yeah, Dexter told Terril everything is fine so Udarnik, your facts are pretty much meaningless and no harm will come to anyone Dexter provides medical advice for. In fact Dexter says it's helping people so there you have it.

(a perfect example of " You don't know what you don't know, but you think you know how to know. " at work )

Note that Dexter in his comments to me and in his video stresses he gives no medical advice whatsoever. Clients Psychiatrist has that job.

 

[JustSheila]

Note that Dexter in his comments to me and in his video stresses he gives no medical advice whatsoever. Clients Psychiatrist has that job.

Well, Terril, there's some sort of contradiction or incorrect facts going on then.

If the man is on psychiatric meds, there are set routines to come off them, cut down, etc. Udarnik just explained in detail why this is so, and why it is destructive to have some short-term 'on again, off again' taking of meds, and how it can actually decrease effectiveness of meds and require higher quantities with less result. Not to mention the crash of the patient. Psychiatrists are doctors. All doctors know when prescribing meds that they must stay within the safe and acceptable parameters of pharmaceutical advice in their use.

Dexter is saying that the psychiatrist himself has agreed to violate this and order the meds be taken in a dangerous way in contradiction to the pharmacy advice. I don't believe Dexter. No doctor is going to risk their license for malpractice over something like this.

This man can verify what Udarnik said with any pharmacy and the pharmacist can tell him exactly how that medicine must be taken.

 

[Terril park]

Well, Terril, there's some sort of contradiction or incorrect facts going on then.

If the man is on psychiatric meds, there are set routines to come off them, cut down, etc. Udarnik just explained in detail why this is so, and why it is destructive to have some short-term 'on again, off again' taking of meds, and how it can actually decrease effectiveness of meds and require higher quantities with less result. Not to mention the crash of the patient. Psychiatrists are doctors. All doctors know when prescribing meds that they must stay within the safe and acceptable parameters of pharmaceutical advice in their use. [snip]

As usual I found Udarnik's commentary lucid and educational. Thats why I referred them to Dexter. Dexter commented that his clients psychiatrist
was also expert. You mention above that there are routines to come off them. So does the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvi...antidepressants/comingoffantidepressants.aspx

The brit NHS offers talk therapy to help come off anti depressents,
presumably with psychiatric monitoring.

http://www.thesite.org/mental-health/mental-health-treatments/coming-off-antidepressants-5836.html

It is most likely that the clients personal psychiatrist is the best
informed person to monitor progress re meds. Its positive that he's
in the loop to do so.

CO$ operates in an almost medieval way. Forbidding further auditing
can be traumatic. It interferes with a person's power of choice which
is detrimental. Further the action of forbidding those who have tried
"other practices" is equally medieval. In my time on staff the hardest working and best student was denied auditing because he had earlier been involved in EST prior to knowing Scn existed. So he had to study up to grade 4 or 5 before he could recieve auditing. Hardly the best regime
for spiritual advancement.

So this spiritual technology which in theory brings one back to
Godhood collapses if one has read unapproved scriptures or taken
unapproved substances.

 

[JustSheila]

I understand what you're saying, Terril, but it seems you have missed the point of what Udarnik said and what I meant.

Of course there are professional counseling therapies to assist someone on psychiatric meds. This is about the meds themselves.

Doctors are obligated to stay within the safety parameters of any drug they prescribe. They cannot prescribe outside those parameters without risk of hurting their clients, no on/off routines every few days, no over-prescribing, etc. This is why criminal celebrity doctors like Elvis Presley's doctor or Michael Jackson's were investigated and sued for malpractice. Malpractice is knowingly violating those safety parameters. The risk and negative results are real, whether an overdose or sudden drop of a med or an on/off again routine that only lowers the effectiveness of a med.

Your links are just dressing. None of them say this is acceptable. Please provide a professional quote saying differently than what Udarnik said about the meds and please stay with the subject.

According to you, Dexter is stating it is the psychiatrist who is guilty of violating safety parameters with this short-term on again/off again routine. I call bullshit. I've been certified to assist in administering medications. Only meds with directions to 'take as needed' can be taken on and off again like that. Not the type that have to build up in your system.

It would help to know exactly what med we are talking about. :confused2:

 

[freethinker]

I have to disagree with Dexter there. Drugs are not empowering. Also looking beyond established information will not necessarily make you great, it will get you challenged and only if your ideas work do they have the potential to make you great.

Sounds to me that Dexter is trying to expand the market for PC's. The reason Hubbard made those on meds illegal was not because they couldn't be "helped" by Scientology, it was so he wouldn't be sued and for that reason only.

But Scientology isn't going to help you no matter what, whether on drugs or not because it s based on nothing proven to work to achieve a better state. You might get joy joy feelings for a while but you can get that from watching a movie or playing a game.

He doesn't appear to be convinced of what he is saying anyway.

He was a poster here once and didn't like our closed minded attitude towards Scientology. Oh well.

 

[JustSheila]

Good point, FT.

What if Dexter is referring to Tylenol 3 or similar? 'Take 1-2 as needed every 6-8 hours for pain' doesn't make it a psychiatric med.

 

[Hypatia]

As usual I found Udarnik's commentary lucid and educational. Thats why I referred them to Dexter. Dexter commented that his clients psychiatrist
was also expert. You mention above that there are routines to come off them. So does the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvi...antidepressants/comingoffantidepressants.aspx

The brit NHS offers talk therapy to help come off anti depressents,
presumably with psychiatric monitoring.

http://www.thesite.org/mental-health/mental-health-treatments/coming-off-antidepressants-5836.html

It is most likely that the clients personal psychiatrist is the best
informed person to monitor progress re meds. Its positive that he's
in the loop to do so.

CO$ operates in an almost medieval way. Forbidding further auditing
can be traumatic. It interferes with a person's power of choice which
is detrimental. Further the action of forbidding those who have tried
"other practices" is equally medieval. In my time on staff the hardest working and best student was denied auditing because he had earlier been involved in EST prior to knowing Scn existed. So he had to study up to grade 4 or 5 before he could recieve auditing. Hardly the best regime
for spiritual advancement.

So this spiritual technology which in theory brings one back to
Godhood collapses if one has read unapproved scriptures or taken
unapproved substances.

Anyone who behaves as angrily, maliciously and underhandedly as Dexter does is a loose cannon and not to be trusted.

 

[Free Being Me]

Anyone who behaves as angrily, maliciously and underhandedly as Dexter does is a loose cannon and not to be trusted.

Excuse me while I come out of my self imposed ban offering some context on the $cientologist known as Dexter. For those of you that are new to ESMB, Dexter caused one of the biggest shit storms this board has seen. A lot of people bought into Dex's whisper campaign resulting in many people banned, friendships ended, and grudge matches lasting to this day. All due to Dex $cientologically bearing "ARC" and "acceptable truths."

Here are the links to threads pertaining to what I'm talking about in full:

Post #9799
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ollo-73-to-Everything-But&p=520612#post520612
Post #17 onward
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21263-From-One-Foot-Out/page2

My point is after reading what was said, judge for yourself whether you'd believe anything Dex says. Speaking for myself, if Dex said the sky is blue, I'd look out the window first for confirmation before taking him at his word. Afterwards, when everyone's senses of humor returned the term Nefarious Cabal was coined as an inside joke.

FBM
Nefarious Cabal Agent
Returning to self-ban land
(take care all)

P.S. Hi Dexter, how is your buddy Frank Pate doing?

 

[Terril park]

I understand what you're saying, Terril, but it seems you have missed the point of what Udarnik said and what I meant.

Of course there are professional counseling therapies to assist someone on psychiatric meds. This is about the meds themselves.

Doctors are obligated to stay within the safety parameters of any drug they prescribe. They cannot prescribe outside those parameters without risk of hurting their clients, no on/off routines every few days, no over-prescribing, etc. This is why criminal celebrity doctors like Elvis Presley's doctor or Michael Jackson's were investigated and sued for malpractice. Malpractice is knowingly violating those safety parameters. The risk and negative results are real, whether an overdose or sudden drop of a med or an on/off again routine that only lowers the effectiveness of a med.

Your links are just dressing. None of them say this is acceptable. Please provide a professional quote saying differently than what Udarnik said about the meds and please stay with the subject.

According to you, Dexter is stating it is the psychiatrist who is guilty of violating safety parameters with this short-term on again/off again routine. I call bullshit. I've been certified to assist in administering medications. Only meds with directions to 'take as needed' can be taken on and off again like that. Not the type that have to build up in your system.

It would help to know exactly what med we are talking about. :confused2:

I don't know what meds are involved, or the clients history with them. But he is under a psychiatrist. You
are jumping to conclusions that safety parameters are being breached.

Note that recomended talk therapy is not nessessarily about the meds themselves.

http://www.thesite.org/mental-health/mental-health-treatments/coming-off-antidepressants-5836.html

"What is CBT?

CBT is a form of therapy that deals mostly with your thoughts and how they affect your behaviour. A typical course of NHS CBT lasts between 8-10 sessions. “Thinking, stress, anxiety and depression are all linked, so CBT works by helping you learn how to think more rationally,” says psychotherapist Dr. Aaron Balick. “For example, if something goes wrong, like you don’t get invited to a party, you might think ‘this is the worst thing ever’ or ‘my life is over!’ CBT teaches you that this is “catastrophising” and making things seem worse than they are.”

The UK NHS is valuable but sometimes waiting lists can be too long.

" you only get a limited amount of six sessions and they hate it if you ask for more,” says 19 year-old Jodie. “I’ve been offered the chance to see a psychiatrist but that’s going to take at least a year because the waiting list is so long.”

Paul probably didn't know the revolution he spawned with his Robot Auditor:-

"If you’re waiting for treatment, you may be find it useful to try computerised CBT programmes such as Beating the Blues. Endorsed by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE), the website has been designed to help you understand and change the connection between feelings, thoughts and actions. Others include Living Life to the Full and Mood Gym."

 

[Veda]

Freezone Post-Scientology auditor Dexter Gelfand on Therapeutic Spiritual Counseling, and Psychiatric Medications.

Summary: He does not apply the Illegal PC doctrine and does not oppose psychiatric medications when and as appropriate.

[video=youtube;TinjkuV0mQQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TinjkuV0mQQ[/video]

HT - https://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/4am1h6/freezone_auditor_dexter_gelfand_speaking_on/

What exactly, CommunicatorIC, is a "Freezone Post-Scientology Auditor" ? Does Dexter call himself this?

 

[CommunicatorIC]

What exactly, CommunicatorIC, is a "Freezone Post-Scientology Auditor" ? Does Dexter call himself this?

To my knowledge Dexter does not call himself this.

It is a category that I created.

I use the term "Post-Scientology" because: (1) I think it is important to note that, as Dexter states in the video, Dexter no longer practices any arguably "standard" form of Scientology; (2) as Dexter notes in the video, his practice is derived from his past study and practice in Scientology; and (3) Dexter has moved beyond Scientology. Given this, I think "Post-Scientology" is an accurate and useful categorization or description of his practice.

I first coined the term "post-Scientology" to describe David St. Lawrence's practice of Spiritual Rescue Technology for the same reasons.

I think "post-Scientology" is a useful, accurate and descriptive label that helps to differentiate people such as Dexter and David from Scientologists in the COS and other members of the Freezone who practice (or try to practice or believe they are practicing) "standard" Scientology.

In this particular case, I added the word Freezone because he is a member of the Freezone, and that term has meaning to many people -- albeit not the general public.

 

[JustSheila]

I don't know what meds are involved, or the clients history with them. But he is under a psychiatrist. You
are jumping to conclusions that safety parameters are being breached. <snip>

What part of my post didn't you understand? Only meds with directions to 'take (so many every so many hours) as needed for ..." can be taken on and off again every few days. Dexter claims to be doing this with psychiatric meds. If it is a 'psychiatric med,' then safety parameters are being breached because one cannot safely withdraw from them in this manner. Dexter claims to be undergoing some sort of scn processing with his client taking psychiatric meds on again/off again every few days, so something is either a breach or it is not psychiatric meds. Very simple. No jumping to conclusions here at all. You and Dexter said 'psychiatric meds'. There are so many inconsistencies in this story that the whole thing sounds fictitious.

I've asked you to stay with the subject. I didn't quote the rest of the post where you went off on something else. It seemed a distraction.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

I respectfully suggest that those who have concern about what Dexter is doing with regard to influencing his client's intake of psychiatric medication watch and carefully listen to the video from approximately the 18:00 point.

I respectfully suggest that those who have no concern about what Dexter is doing with regard to influencing his client's intake of psychiatric medication watch and carefully listen to the video from approximately the 18:00 point.

I find myself troubled by the fact that Dexter and the psychiatrist do not directly communicate (or even know each others' names), though to be fair Dexter says he would be open to that.

On the other hand, it appears that Dexter is using his client as a via for communication with the psychiatrist, and most importantly that the client's psychiatric medication intake is not changed or altered without the psychiatrists knowledge and permission.

Watch the video from the 18:00 point and see if you agree.

 

[Veda]

To my knowledge Dexter does not call himself this.

It is a category that I created.

I use the term "Post-Scientology" because: (1) I think it is important to note that, as Dexter states in the video, Dexter no longer practices any arguably "standard" form of Scientology; (2) as Dexter notes in the video, his practice is derived from his past study and practice in Scientology; and (3) Dexter has moved beyond Scientology. Given this, I think "Post-Scientology" is an accurate and useful categorization or description of his practice.

I first coined the term "post-Scientology" to describe David St. Lawrence's practice of Spiritual Rescue Technology for the same reasons.

I think "post-Scientology" is a useful, accurate and descriptive label that helps to differentiate people such as Dexter and David from Scientologists in the COS and other members of the Freezone who practice (or try to practice or believe they are practicing) "standard" Scientology.

In this particular case, I added the word Freezone because he is a member of the Freezone, and that term has meaning to many people -- albeit not the general public.

Thanks for the clarification.

Don't really see much of a change in Dexter's (Scientology-related) views from the time when he posted on ESMB and called ESMB posters "damaged children." He also posted this link at that time: http://freezone-tech.info/dexter/ As you can see the link is still up and operating.

Maybe you can convince Dexter to come here and post again and speak for himself.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Thanks for the clarification.

Don't really see much of a change in Dexter's (Scientology-related) views from the time when he posted on ESMB and called ESMB posters "damaged children." He also posted this link at that time: http://freezone-tech.info/dexter/ As you can see the link is still up and operating.

Maybe you can convince Dexter to come here and post again and speak for himself.

Thanks for the link. I see he has a new site:

http://dexsessions.com/

I'm not in direct communication with Dexter. The video came up in my Twitter feed and I thought it raised interesting issues, so I cross-posted it here and on WWP.