Freezone Post-Scientology auditor Dexter Gelfand on Psychiatric Medications

[Terril park]

I respectfully suggest that those who have concern about what Dexter is doing with regard to influencing his client's intake of psychiatric medication watch and carefully listen to the video from approximately the 18:00 point.

I respectfully suggest that those who have no concern about what Dexter is doing with regard to influencing his client's intake of psychiatric medication watch and carefully listen to the video from approximately the 18:00 point.

I find myself troubled by the fact that Dexter and the psychiatrist do not directly communicate (or even know each others' names), though to be fair Dexter says he would be open to that.

On the other hand, it appears that Dexter is using his client as a via for communication with the psychiatrist, and most importantly that the client's psychiatric medication intake is not changed or altered without the psychiatrists knowledge and permission.

Watch the video from the 18:00 point and see if you agree.

Looks to me as though the client is the one in charge. He wants Dexters input and has asked for a lowering of meds on occasion to let the talk therapy be more productive. The psychiatrist is going along with this.

It appears to be going well.

I presume in mainstream therapy psychiatry and psychotherapy
also work hand in hand. The links I've posted indicate this.

So Hubbard stole from Freud and Jung and created dianetics. Its
all talk therapy and useful.

 

[Veda]

By way of a response to Udarnik earlier, noticed that Dexter has already seen this thread.

I spoke to Dexter yesterday as I felt he should see your comments.
He'd already seen them.

-snip-

So Dexter still reads ESMB but prefers not to interact with the entheta beings clustered here. Or something like that. :confused2:

Thanks for the link. I see he has a new site:

http://dexsessions.com/

I'm not in direct communication with Dexter. The video came up in my Twitter feed and I thought it raised interesting issues, so I cross-posted it here and on WWP.

Thanks again.

 

[Terril park]

What part of my post didn't you understand? Only meds with directions to 'take (so many every so many hours) as needed for ..." can be taken on and off again every few days. Dexter claims to be doing this with psychiatric meds. If it is a 'psychiatric med,' then safety parameters are being breached because one cannot safely withdraw from them in this manner. Dexter claims to be undergoing some sort of scn processing with his client taking psychiatric meds on again/off again every few days, so something is either a breach or it is not psychiatric meds. Very simple. No jumping to conclusions here at all. You and Dexter said 'psychiatric meds'. There are so many inconsistencies in this story that the whole thing sounds fictitious.

I've asked you to stay with the subject. I didn't quote the rest of the post where you went off on something else. It seemed a distraction.

Note that psychiatrists do take clients of psychiatric meds. Though no expert I have referred to websites which demonstrate that.

Neither you or I know the particulars in this case. Apparently more than one med is involved and maybe several non psychiatric ones. Different meds have different half lives.

Or are you saying only those actions approved by Sheila are allowable?

 

[CommunicatorIC]

I presume in mainstream therapy psychiatry and psychotherapy
also work hand in hand. The links I've posted indicate this.

In mainstream therapy it is indeed common practice to couple psychiatric medication with talk therapy.

To the extent the recent trend has been to offer only psychiatric medication without talk therapy, it has been for reasons of economics -- i.e., limited insurance coverage for patients who don't have the money to pay for both out of pocket.

One recent trend to ameliorate the problem noted in the paragraph above and save money is to have a psychologist (or even lesser degreed mental health professional) provide the talk therapy, and have the medical doctor psychiatrist only do that which only a medical doctor psychiatrist can do -- i.e., prescribe the psychiatric medication.

There have been many studies concerning of the efficacy of [psychiatric medication + talk therapy] vs [psychiatric medication alone] vs. [talk therapy alone]. As I recall, in general, for most the common complaints (e.g., depression and anxiety) and depending on the condition:

[psychiatric medication + talk therapy] > [psychiatric medication alone] > [talk therapy alone]

Where > = "more effective than," and effectiveness is determined by the self-report of the patient or client.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Excuse me while I come out of my self imposed ban offering some context on the $cientologist known as Dexter. For those of you that are new to ESMB, Dexter caused one of the biggest shit storms this board has seen. A lot of people bought into Dex's whisper campaign resulting in many people banned, friendships ended, and grudge matches lasting to this day. All due to Dex $cientologically bearing "ARC" and "acceptable truths."

Here are the links to threads pertaining to what I'm talking about in full:

Post #9799
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ollo-73-to-Everything-But&p=520612#post520612
Post #17 onward
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21263-From-One-Foot-Out/page2

My point is after reading what was said, judge for yourself whether you'd believe anything Dex says. Speaking for myself, if Dex said the sky is blue, I'd look out the window first for confirmation before taking him at his word. Afterwards, when everyone's senses of humor returned the term Nefarious Cabal was coined as an inside joke.

FBM
Nefarious Cabal Agent
Returning to self-ban land
(take care all)

P.S. Hi Dexter, how is your buddy Frank Pate doing?

What happened way back then was insane and ridiculous but the ins and outs and ups and downs of past upsets are almost always irrelevant as far as I'm concerned once the heat has come off them and tempers and hurt feelings have returned to normal.

Only the people truly involved know what really happened and why and even they may not realise that some things said and done were based on misunderstandings that escalated things out of all proportion (and I'm not saying any of that happened in this case, just that it's possible because none of it made sense).

I mentioned earlier that anything (good or bad) that comes out of a scientologists mouth isn't taken seriously (by me) because I know they are still talking through a thick haze of pure hubbardy BS and have some strange ideas regarding people, life in general and the tehk (among other things) but people do change and have regrets and understand (often too late) that they got it very wrong.

I'm not defending anyone here but neither am I jumping on a very old bandwagon and stirring it back to life.

What Dexter is doing now could end badly for all concerned, I just hope it doesn't.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

What exactly, CommunicatorIC, is a "Freezone Post-Scientology Auditor" ? Does Dexter call himself this?

After so many decades of "clearing thetans" I would imagine that Dexter has come to the inevitable conclusion that (despite Dr. Hubbard's love bombing) he is not really an elite "Sector Salvager"--or even a "Planet Clearer". Only the crazies in the "ideal" orgs still think that "planetary clearing has become a reality", lol.

The main problem I have with Scientologists is that even when it becomes painfully clear that all the glorious breakthroughs that promised "planetary clearing becoming a reality" didn't even clear 0.001% of the world's 7.2 billion people--they didn't cringe or even blink. They just kept on with their imaginary savior role as "planet clearer". If only 0.001% had been cleared, that would have been 72,000 clears. Yet, after 66 years there are not even 72,000 Scientologists!

Scientology has not even cleared one city or one small town. Or even a village. Scientology, with all its technology and supernatural powers and the Sea Org OTs could not even clear one street. Or even one block.

Hell, there is not even an org in the world where all the staff members INSIDE are clear, although many of them have been toiling for decades to "salvage this sector".

I don't know what Dexter calls himself, but I call him a straggler. He still hasn't figured out that Scientology's "Bridge to Total Freedom" is just a megalomaniac's cruel money-making hoax.

It reminds one of the "stragglers" from Japan's army that hid out in the Philippine jungles after WWII was over--simply refusing to believe that Japan has lost the war and signed an unconditional surrender. Instead, they spent decades fighting a war that no longer existed, believing themselves on some holy crusade to defend their Emperor's sacred orders.

Even the Japanese "loyal officers" finally gave up after 29 years, finally coming out of hiding and back into the real world (i.e. "present time") in 1974. However, Scientologists have very severe "com lags". Scientology hasn't made even one (1) clear since 1950 (66 years ago!), yet tech stragglers like Dexter and others are still being true to Hubbard's "command intention" and going through the motions of pretending to free people from their "reactive mind".

Hey Dexter, I'm a highly trained auditor and Case Supervisor too. I have a command for you. "COME TO PRESENT TIME". There is no "clear". There is no "charge". There is no "erasing". There is no "reactive mind". There is no "OT". There is no "Bridge". There is no "modern science of mental health". There is no "world without insanity", because Hubbard, superpowers and all, was quite insane.

I know, Dexter, it's kind of shocking and disorienting, isn't it? Just walk out of the jungle and rejoin civilization. You'll like it out here. There's nobody shooting at you and you don't need to kill anyone. Really, everyone is getting along quite well without Hubbard saying crazy things, lying and ordering people to do his sociopathic bidding.

Try it! It's quite amazing to live life without tin cans and pretending.

 

[freethinker]

Hate to say this but Dexter looks like a man who is developing cancer. I don't wish that on anyone but it wouldn't surprise me if it came up in the next six months.

 

[Jump]

Note that psychiatrists do take clients of psychiatric meds. Though no expert I have referred to websites which demonstrate that.

Neither you or I know the particulars in this case. Apparently more than one med is involved and maybe several non psychiatric ones. Different meds have different half lives.

Or are you saying only those actions approved by Sheila are allowable?

I think only the prescription from the Doctor is allowable. That's the correct answer from a patient/client welfare point of view and legal framework. Udarnik has already talked about clearance rates , dosage and therapeutic levels.

Just because a scientologist knows how to know, doesn't mean he knows anything. The psychiatrist has given a prescription and it's not up to anyone to mess with that.

When I work with clients, the info they bring about the treatment by a different practitioner is sometimes fanciful at best. If they have mental issues, try to figure that into the equation.

When co-managing a client it is essential to have some communication with the other practitioner. Just a note saying 'Client says you're doing blah, I'm doing blah, so far blah has happened' - is so simple and easy to do. It gives the other practitioner an opportunity to clarify misunderstandings and give direction. An expert in com-cycles should know this.

Or would that ruin a 'oh, but I thought' legal defence?

Treatment should always be in the best interest of the patient.

 

[Terril park]

I think only the prescription from the Doctor is allowable. That's the correct answer from a patient/client welfare point of view and legal framework. Udarnik has already talked about clearance rates , dosage and therapeutic levels.

Just because a scientologist knows how to know, doesn't mean he knows anything. The psychiatrist has given a prescription and it's not up to anyone to mess with that.

When I work with clients, the info they bring about the treatment by a different practitioner is sometimes fanciful at best. If they have mental issues, try to figure that into the equation.

When co-managing a client it is essential to have some communication with the other practitioner. Just a note saying 'Client says you're doing blah, I'm doing blah, so far blah has happened' - is so simple and easy to do. It gives the other practitioner an opportunity to clarify misunderstandings and give direction. An expert in com-cycles should know this.

Or would that ruin a 'oh, but I thought' legal defence?

Treatment should always be in the best interest of the patient.

As far as we know all prescriptions are from a doctor.

There may be some comm between practitioners.

You work in this field?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

QUESTION DU JOUR: What qualifies Dexter and other "field auditors" to handle the mentally ill or persons with severe enough psychological challenges that they require medication?

ANSWER: Knowingness & Certainty.

HELPFUL TIP: Scientologists get huge wins with "knowingness & certainty". It is rather easily attained by simply "by-passing the devT" and "bank agreement" called reality.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Hate to say this but Dexter looks like a man who is developing cancer. I don't wish that on anyone but it wouldn't surprise me if it came up in the next six months.

I see someone who looks a little tired, is perhaps still carrying deep sadness (you never "get over" a child's death despite auditing or any other type of avoidance tehk) ... is sitting in bright light and may have lost a bit of weight since we last saw him.

He looks pretty good to me.

On a different note, when I first saw the thread I thought it meant Dexter was on psychiatric medication ... but clearly I misread that.

 

[Jump]

As far as we know all prescriptions are from a doctor.

There may be some comm between practitioners.

You work in this field?

In my work I have co-managed clients who have medical, surgical and other therapies for their condition. I don't work in mental health, except to know it would be crazy to dick with a doctor's prescription except by asking them to do it in writing. Which I have done at times.

Changes in medication require a new prescription not a knowingness postulate.

 

[Churchill]

Boy, do I feel old!

I remember Dexter as the doe-eyed pre-teen younger brother of Janet Gelfand.

And here he is, all grown up & issuing Scientological pronouncements on this and that medication.

The only thing more impressive would be if he had an actual education.

 

[freethinker]

But he's going beyond the established knowledge like Hubbard so he should be able to afford his Blue Bird motor home soon.

Boy, do I feel old!

I remember Dexter as the doe-eyed pre-teen younger brother of Janet Gelfand.

And here he is, all grown up & issuing Scientological pronouncements on this and that medication.

The only thing more impressive would be if he had an actual education.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

In my work I have co-managed clients who have medical, surgical and other therapies for their condition. I don't work in mental health, except to know it would be crazy to dick with a doctor's prescription except by asking them to do it in writing. Which I have done at times.

Changes in medication require a new prescription not a knowingness postulate.

I used my own knowingness to channel the text of a letter which Dexter sent to his PC's psychiatrist:


Dear Dr,

I know you are a psychiatrist, however I am requesting that you reduce my PC's dosage of "psych drugs". It is affecting their ability to erase electronic charge stored in their mind. This is quite scientific, I assure and has been confirmed by Dr. Hubbard's electro-psychometer.

That's right, Dr. Hubbard (Founder of Scientology) is, like yourself, also a doctor. However, he is additionally a celebrated nuclear physicist. Feel free to Google it and you will soon discover that Dr. Hubbard graduated magna cum laude from the prestigious Sequoia University.

Please note that this dosage adjustment I am requesting on behalf of my preclear is neither random nor unfounded. There is a scientific biological confirmation supporting my request. To wit, on more than one occasion it really like totally indicated to me (i.e. I could factually feel charge blowing from my own space and body) when I spotted that the pc is being overmedicated.

Kindly also recognize that the program the preclear is on is multiple steps, and kicking psych drugs is but the very first step of the journey across a bridge. Once we have gotten him off drugs, he will be placed on a strict regimen of sweating and mega-vitamins to sweat out the impurities from his system. Dr. Hubbard researched this quite extensively, to the point where there is even a medical textbook on the subject ("Clear Body Clear Mind").

But, the pc's program continues far beyond that, as you will see in a moment. Once the drugs have been "sweated out", we will work with the pc for whatever number of years and donations are required until they are fully prepared to face the Wall of Fire. As a psych, you would not have studied--nor would you have any feasible way of knowing that the preclear is loaded with hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of dead space aliens from 75 million years ago, beginning in a remote part of our Galaxy.

You see, doctor, until we get those evil spirits exorcised, the pc will continue to have all manner of psychological turmoil.

I assure you, the pc will be in very good hands after you release him from drugs and your care.

ML,

Dexter


ps: For your own personal benefit, I highly recommend that you abandon the evil charlatanism of psychiatric practice. Dr. Hubbard discovered that you and those of your ilk have been hard at work for trillions of years with the singular purpose of entrapping spiritual beings for eternity. And to destroy Scientology, the only technology capable of making human beings into supernaturally powered and immortal Gods. Don't think that we don't know what you are doing over there, you evil cocksucking SP. Please do not take offense, I'm just sayin'.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

HH, you're worth your weight in gold ... (can't stop laughing).

The fact that it's pretty much how most (if not all) scientologists actually think is a bit confronting though.


​

 

[Jump]

I used my own knowingness to channel the text of a letter which Dexter sent to his PC's psychiatrist:


Dear Dr,

I know you are a psychiatrist, however I am requesting that you reduce my PC's dosage of "psych drugs". It is affecting their ability to erase electronic charge stored in their mind. This is quite scientific, I assure and has been confirmed by Dr. Hubbard's electro-psychometer.

That's right, Dr. Hubbard (Founder of Scientology) is, like yourself, also a doctor. However, he is additionally a celebrated nuclear physicist. Feel free to Google it and you will soon discover that Dr. Hubbard graduated magna cum laude from the prestigious Sequoia University.

Please note that this dosage adjustment I am requesting on behalf of my preclear is neither random nor unfounded. There is a scientific biological confirmation supporting my request. To wit, on more than one occasion it really like totally indicated to me (i.e. I could factually feel charge blowing from my own space and body) when I spotted that the pc is being overmedicated.

Kindly also recognize that the program the preclear is on is multiple steps, and kicking psych drugs is but the very first step of the journey across a bridge. Once we have gotten him off drugs, he will be placed on a strict regimen of sweating and mega-vitamins to sweat out the impurities from his system. Dr. Hubbard researched this quite extensively, to the point where there is even a medical textbook on the subject ("Clear Body Clear Mind").

But, the pc's program continues far beyond that, as you will see in a moment. Once the drugs have been "sweated out", we will work with the pc for whatever number of years and donations are required until they are fully prepared to face the Wall of Fire. As a psych, you would not have studied--nor would you have any feasible way of knowing that the preclear is loaded with hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of dead space aliens from 75 million years ago, beginning in a remote part of our Galaxy.

You see, doctor, until we get those evil spirits exorcised, the pc will continue to have all manner of psychological turmoil.

I assure you, the pc will be in very good hands after you release him from drugs and your care.

ML,

Dexter


ps: For your own personal benefit, I highly recommend that you abandon the evil charlatanism of psychiatric practice. Dr. Hubbard discovered that you and those of your ilk have been hard at work for trillions of years with the singular purpose of entrapping spiritual beings for eternity. And to destroy Scientology, the only technology capable of making human beings into supernaturally powered and immortal Gods. Don't think that we don't know what you are doing over there, you evil cocksucking SP. Please do not take offense, I'm just sayin'.

I was going to ask why not mention whole-track prison wardens. But you're right - let's not go there. Evil cocksucking SP gets the point across admirably.





You're hysterical HH. And not in a psych way.

 

[JustSheila]

Note that psychiatrists do take clients of psychiatric meds.

Was there ever anyone here who stated otherwise? Of course psychiatrists take clients off meds. :confused2: What is your point. We all know that.

Neither you or I know the particulars in this case.

Okay.

Apparently more than one med is involved and maybe several non psychiatric ones.

You just said above that you don't know the particulars. Is this a guess on your part?

Or are you saying only those actions approved by Sheila are allowable?

Ad hom.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

I was going to ask why not mention whole-track prison wardens.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

1:33 ("...whole track prison warden")


[video=youtube;UI7ftP2zRpM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI7ftP2zRpM[/video]


Absolutely one of my top 10 favorite moments in the history of the modern science of mental illness! Because:

1) it is fully insane.
2) the Scientologist stating it has total certainty
3) it is being said to a group of assembled wog journalists and reporters.

That is how deep Scientologists' delusional labyrinth runs. They condemn someone as a "wholetrack" prison warden to people who don't believe in or even know what "wholetrack" means. LOLOLOLOL.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Hearing that again now that some time has passed and perspective is regained is really eerie.

Tommy Davis was probably mid nervous breakdown when that all happened, it's awful to listen to ... it sounds like insanity on steroids.

I hope he's regained a normal life and that his blood pressure recovered, but most of all that he has freed himself from the vice-like grip miscavige must have had over him for him to have performed in that way.